Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Leupold B&C reticle?

This is not a serious "long range" hunting question, as I'm really only going through the steps towards becoming lethal out to 400, 500 yards tops...

I had a Loopy 2.5x8 on my .338 win mag. It's a very accurate rifle. I put Stoney Point turret on it, for elevation, and had things worked out to where I could hit every time out to 400+ yards. Then two things happened. First, I shot the same scope on a buddies rifle with the B&C reticle and liked it, and 2nd, I had some monopoly money to spend at the gunshop AND a rifle that needed a scope! So I stole the scope off the .338, and bought a 2.5x8 with the BC reticle to put back on the .338.

Oh, this .338 is my elk rifle. The country I hunt elk in is wooded but certainly has vistas and large openings, too.

First off, I know that's not a serious "long range" scope. It would need to have true mil-dots for that. I didn't want a bigger scope on this rifle. Second, I know that this reticle is only going to help out 500 yards at best. That's fine with me, as my self-imposed limit has been 400 yards anyway since that's all the further I've been able to hit my steel plates EVERY SINGE TIME.

So my question amounts to this: have any of you used this reticle much? Any thoughts or advice? It appears I have a "group B" cartridge in my .338 with the 225 AB, although from looking at what they call Group A and Group B, and knowing the speed of my load (2900 fps) and the sleek Accubond bullet, I may be in Group A territory. Anyway, some range time will sort that out but any advice anyone has for the care and feeding of the Loopy Boone and Crockett reticle is appreciated!

-jeff

Jeff,
First, you don't need a mil-dot reticle for a scope to be fit for LR.
2nd, I see no reason to sound apologetic for your self-imposed limits. You are simply shooting within your confidence and current ability. No one I know would want you or anyone to do anything different than that.

3rd send me your typical elevation/temp for your home area and also for your elk area.
I will run it on exbal and give you more hard figures for that reticle and your load (chronoed right?).
once I do that then practice with the reticle and see if the field data (out to 400-500 yards) matches Exbal.
It will be different data for the elk hunt, but if your data matches your field shooting at home it should be more than good for your hunt area.
Ideally, you would want to shoot at 400-500 yards once you get to your area to confirm the data, if that is possible.
You want to make sure your gun is on anyway after traveling.

As far as the B & C reticle I have never had one, so I can't comment on that.

If you want to contact via email ernieemilyyahoo.com

What elevation? Depending on that exactly, a quick look shows that reticle should match your load very, very well. For sub 500 yds I would greatly prefer the reticle over Stoney Point knobs. I think it can serve you well if you put in a bit of time and get it zeroed the best way.

Hey guys!

Ernie, we hunt at 6000-8000 feet. Temperture is all over the map; usually well below freezing in the morning, and it could stay that way or it could be shirt-sleeves weather by mid-afternoon (in the sun at least).

I am using 74 grains of RL19 and a 225-gn Accubond. If I remember right, it chrono's at 2875 fps from my 26" barrel.

I always check my zero when I get there, but I have not done that at any range, just at 100 yards. It would indeed make sense to check it at longer ranges.

I typically zero this rifle 1.5" high at 100 yards. I'll have to do a true 200-yard zero for this reticle to work properly. Anyone know exactly what a 200-yard zero is for the above load? I should be able to get it out of the Nosler book, too.

I'll probably send in a couple other scopes to Leupold on the off-season for these reticles if I like how this performs.

-jeff

Doping the wind has been my big bugaboo as far as getting proficient out beyond 500 yards or so. My primary rig for LR shooting has been a DPMS AR-10 type rifle in .308:



It has a 6x18 VX-II on it, and has been a hoot. It's very accurate (10 shots into .85" at 100 yards is my best so far) rifle and is heavy enough that I can often see my misses... which I cannot, with my 30-06 or .338 sporters.

Anyway, it's windy over there and it has been a real challenge out at 600+ yards.

-jeff

Given the decent BC and the altitude, the 10 MPH wind marks will become roughly 15 MPH for you. That's good. Practice estimating the wind and if it's 5 MPH, go over 1/3 of the way, if it's 10 MPH go 2/3 of the way....

That altitude shows you outshooting the reticle slightly, but still workable for sub 500 yd on something the size of an elk. First, rechronograph your load--and chronograph some of the ammo cold. Stick it in the fridge overnight and take it to the range in a ziplock in icewater in a cooler. That'll give you some idea how fast the load will be on those cold mornings and might actually match the reticle better.

Hey Jon, wondering if you invested in a B+C or not or the 300 Ultra.

I just finished mine, with a Pac Nor 3 groove on a 700. In doing my math, the Varmint Hunter reticle at max power seems to be within +/- only 1 inch all the way to 500 yards with a 180 AB. Seems kinda a no brainer, but was wondering how close the reticles are vs. projected data.

In my limited experience, I am not very sure of the turrets getting the adjustment correct the 1st time, without a recoil set (2nd shot). Seems less moving parts and such to trust the reticle out to 500 with no dial ups.

I think I used a .505 BC and 5000 ft.

Yes, I used the VHR on the 300 for a while:



It did seem to fit the ballistics of the 300 when using 200 AB's or any 180 better than the B&C would have. I specifically chose it over the B&C for my rifle for that reason as well as slightly longer range capability.

You're right, it's very reliable (more so than some turrets), fast, easy and accurate out to 500 easily. As closely as I could measure, the MOA spacing was dead nuts on with Leupold's specs.

I did have my dislikes though. In thick timber the reticle is difficult to pick up quickly with good light, in low light I felt sort of handicapped with it. That's not the reticle's fault, of course, as the name implies it wasn't designed for that. Clearly, the B&C is a better choice in these places. So, that's something to keep in mind depending on the terrain you hunt. In New Mexico it might be just what you want.

My only other complaint sort of applies to most of these--being in the SFP so they only "work" at one power. That's less of a big deal for lower powered scopes, but it still bugs me.

I always crank my scope up as high as it'll go for longer shooting anyway... 'course we're talking about 2.5x8's here, in my case.

That varmint reticle would be too thin for general-purpose hunting, for me. I can see what you mean about it being hard to see in the timber!

I may get a chance to get up and give mine it's first try today. I'll report back if I do.

-jeff

I just bought VX-L with B&C and installed it on my 270 WSM
I shoot a 140g Barnes TSX at 3300 fps. I have a Desert Bighorn Sheep hunt this fall and while not looking to take extreme long shots, expect it may be longer than my typical Elk/Mule deer shot. And the sheep boiler room being smaller than an elk, I'd hate to misjudge. Hopefully the B&C will help. It appears my cartridge falls in the "C" class. My sheep hunt will be at 7000' and I sighted in at 4500'. Temps in the desert should be close to home temps, But will get colder if I don't shoot the ram before late October or early Nov.

Some of the country I'll be hunting

Leos awesome photos!

To heck with the gun gack where did you draw the desert borrego tag for?

Thx

Dober

Jeff,

I think you'll like Steve Timm's (B&C) reticle. I shot a 20-shot group, four at each of 100,200,300,400,and 450 yds with it on my '06. that was about an 8" by 6" group. Not the stuff the benchers would be happy with but this is adequate hunting accuracy. It was in the wind too with the 8" being the horizontal-with the wind-group.

But, don't rely on anything other than shooting all the way out to your max range with the scope when you have your chosen load. For instance, your load as you mention, may fall between the cartridge groupings and hit between the hashes (usually a small amount) at the appropriate ranges.

I think it's a helpful hunting reticle.

Gdv

Jeff you're doing exactly what you need to do to get the most from the B&C reticle. I use 3 of them and they work exactly as advertised. Zero your scope, chrono your load, run a ballistics chart, shoot the actual ranges to sort out any anamolies. The reticle will then serve you well, plus you've an excuse to shoot more!!

Shoot the ranges, and you'll know, anything else is mearly a SWAG.

Rezero when you arrive, anything else is foolish.

The rest will work.

Jeff

I messed with the zero some more yesterday. Here's what I did.

I was finding that I seem to be in between a Class A and a Class B cartridge with my 338 and 225 AB's at 2900 fps. So instead of fretting over getting my 200-yard zero perfect, I focused on seeing what would happen if I zeroed, using the lower crosshairs of course, for 300 and 400 yards. This required me to come down 3 clicks from my supposed 200-yard zero for the main crosshair. Oh, this is with it set for max magnification (Group A) also, which I also wanted since I don't want to be fiddle faddlin' around trying to find that other mark in the heat of the moment. Now I can just crank it all the way up.

Result is that I'm dead-nuts on at 300, 400, 450, and 500 yards, just as advertised, AND as an added bonus, instead of being 1.75" high at 100 yards, I'm more like 1" high.

I don't like being 2" off on my hundred yard zero anyway, so this is a good thing in my book.

I love the reticle. I'll head up and shoot some more at range today but at this point I'd be guessing that Loopy will be seeing at least one more of my scopes this winter to have that reticle installed.

-jeff

... of course all of this just about garuntees that I'll kill an elk at 50 yards this year!

Y'know, one other bonus, and this is significant, that I'm seeing with the B&C reticle. I have (5) 2.5x8 Loopy's, 3 Vari-X and 2 VX-III's. I had examples of each out at dusk the other evening and the VX's are slightly but noticeably brighter in very low light. Just as importantly, the crosshair of the regular duplex reticle gets hard to see AND it gets kind of pinkinsh-purple in low low light. The B&C reticle stayed BLACK and was much, much easier to see in low light.

-jeff

Der ya go!

Gdv

That is great-nothing like going out and confirming what it "should be."
When you get to your hunting location I would confirm again and use one of your longer distances. IT is harder to notice a small amount of distance @ 100 yards but the further you confirm the better off you are. It gives you a lot of confidence when you have confirmed hits in your hunting conditions at your max range.

Took it out again today. Perfection out to 500 yards (calm day). With wind, I'd be dropping back to 400 I'd guess. Wind really messes with me still.

My 30-06 is set up with turrets (stoney Point) and it's also deadly out to 500 on a calm day.

This represents a HUGE upgrade in my hunting skills that I've pulled off in the last year (and probably jeez... 800, 1000 rounds expended?).

Big fun!

-jeff

Glad it's working for you. Sounds like you're all set.

And ditto that. If there's anywhere to be off by an MOA or so, it's at 200, 300--not 400, 500.

Exactly. So I zeroed for 300, 400 and let the 100-yard zero "float".

i'd be real curious to see how the BC reticle worked with my .358 Win. Any thoughts? Ideally, I'd end up with a 100, 200, 300, 350, and 400 yard reticle... but that sounds too good to be true!

-jeff

Oftentimes the reticle stadia dots, lines, points etc. won't add up to even hundred or 50 yd. intervals, but if u know the subtension (measurement) of the stadia u can calculate the zeros of each stadia, check at the range, and troubleshoot the system if necessary. Then an interpolative (between stadia) system can be calculated, and your set to go for those particular conditions. Sometimes u may have a rangefinding reticle that u may want to use for downrange zeroing such as the mil-dot. U may also have a custom reticle in a scope that was set up for a different trajectory, or some such scenario. U may also have a trajectory that's somewhat different then the stds. that the companies have designed for the reticle. This is usually what happens to me as i'm shooting VLD bullets out of handgun length barrels. One of my setups is the Leup. VH reticle on a Savage Striker in 243 WSSM shooting VLD's. That probably isn't even gonna come close to 1 of the stds. Leup. setup. Besides that i prefer to use the scope at it's highest power anyway instead of fiddling around with the scope's power ring.

Once my system is established then my range sticker that goes inside my Butler Creek scope cap cover will look something like this--

450-2.4-.8

Range, elevation, and windage reference in that order always. This is just the system that i have established for my rigs, and is one of several that can be chosen.

Jeff- I can't say for sure if the B&C would work with your 358 but I would sure as heck bet on it happening.

I work quite a bit with a couple of Burris with the BP's in it which is basically the same thing as the B&C.

I was out working with my lil 308 with it and found it very easy to set it to 500 yds with the BP.

And I've got a BP on my 338/06 and when I run the 250's @ 2500 I can very easily set the scope to work to 500 yds.

If you have to try getting the 358 set a couple of inches high at 100 and then go to 300 and 400 and see how it goes. You may end up massaging it a bit but I have no doubt you can make it happen to at least a 1/4 mile.

If this isn't making sense give me a call and I'll walk you thru it.

Dober

That makes perfect sense, Mark, thanks!

This will all be happening this winter; it was a wild-ass hair to put a new scope on my .338 so late in the game and I don't have the time/money/inclination to tempt fate by messing with any more of my main horses while crossing the stream!

Right now I have two systems going that are both giving me reliable hits on the 500-yard plate on days that are not windy. My 30-06 with 165-gn Accubonds at 2930 fps is set up with Stoney Point turret and that's been working well and reliably. Then there's the new B&C 2.5x8 on the .338. Expense aside (the SP turrets are cheap) I think I like the reticle better due to the lack of moving parts and possibility of accidentaly leaving the turret dialed to 500 yards and botching a 50-yard shot. In other words, the reticle is simpler. You told me this already some months ago, Mark!

I'm still flailing when there's significant wind or beyond 500 yards or so. Things just get wonky.

-jeff

Jeff-wind always makes things wonky in a hurry. Practice tells me when to drop the hammer and when not to. And shooting in good, bad and the ugly condtitions helps a lot with this as well.

For me I've found that practicing a lot at range in differing conditions keeps me knowing when to and when not to drop the hammer.

The other interesting thing you could try with the 358 is to sight it in at 400 with the proper plex and then come back to one hundred and see how far up you are.

For me the plexes/dotz/ B&C's will always be the tool for me over turrets for my serious hunting. They will always be quicker and for me when the chips are down way mucho the way to go.

I sent in a scope the other day to Leo to have them put on a M1 and it came back and didn't work. Now things like that can happen to anyone but the more moving parts a product has the more I worry.

I am not trying to turn this into a turret bashing and or a "I use turrets and they work for me" kind of thread either.

Keep at it, sounds like you're coming along well.

One of these days take a bud along and a clock. Set targets at 200, 300,400, 500 and take both your guns along (the B&C one and the turret one). Load each gun with 4 rounds and walk around. Have your bud time you and yell when you should hit it. Hit the ground and chamber a round and have at it, all for time.

Then, have him call out the ranges of the gongs he wants you to hit. Try something like this, 500, 300, 400 and then 200. Do it with both rigs and do it for time.

When you're done give me a call and tell me what the times were for both rigs.

IME this is a good drill as in hunting it can and does happen just like that. You can be set for a 200 yard shot and then bingo a 500 yarder comes up and you gonna reaquire the target, get on it and kill it RIGHT now.

If you spend some time with these drills you will come to some very interesting conclusions.

Later

Dober

It would be an interesting exercise.

I THINK, and i don't know this for a fact, but I think that there would not be much difference. It takes me a while to settle into a long shot at this point. The time to adjust the turret (zzzzip) would be part of the same time that I was using to get other things right. I think.

I don't use a bipod, so that's part of it.

In reality, my goal is not to be taking lots of long-range shots at game. If nothing else, I hunt alone, and in the country I hunt long shots are almost always gonna be cross-canyon... so getting to the spot the animal was at could be very, very tricky at best, without a spotter back at the shooting position. Especially on the west side of the mountains, where it's so dense and brushy.

I just want to be a viable 400, maybe 500 yard shooter since my rifles and cartridges are up to the task. I don't want to be the limiting factor. If a bull is standing there broadside at 450 yards and I have time to range him and get settled in... I want to be able to kill him. That's all very unlikely, but it can't hurt to be ready!

Mostly, it's a hoot!

You'd love my big DPMS AR-10, Mark. Super accurate and you can just hose the bullets out and have a good time. With the 6x18 scope I have on it it's really fun at longer ranges.

I do need to work up a heavy bullet load for it. I've been using the 155-gn Nosler J4.

-jeff

Oh yeah there would be a diff. The dot/plex/B&C shooter will kill mucho quicker. If you lived over this way a bit closer we could get together and do some shooting.

Put it this way, in the time it takes you to reclick you could already have lead in the air and the target taken out. I've done this lil exercise enough with enough peeps to know this to be true.

You may well come away a while from now and say, Dang Dober you were right.

Then again maybe not....grins

Dober

You probably are right, and once I see it I'll say it! Trust me. I'm not married to the idea that I know best or anything. Life is one big quest to learn more, and better, and faster, etc.

It's mostly that I know how SLOW I am to get comfortable and settled enough for a long shot! :-/

Hey, listed a half-mil property today! I am, indeed, the King of the FSBO's.

-jeff

Sounds like a good prop, PM me more info if you like when you have time.

And yepper no doubt you're the FYSBO king...grins

Congrats

Dober

IMHO if all you are gonna stretch it to is 500 yards, its much easier to learn the hash marks or whatever you are using at the time, and simply hold off and shoot. Wind starts to get interesting at times, but with the BC reticle types you can have a better shot at it, and lets face it, the wind is less critical up close at 400 or 500, stretch it out to further, then turrets are the only way to go, IMHO. At that point more things come into play as in temps, pressures, altitude and so on...so a more precise correction, IE the 400 yard stadia is not always true.

Jeff

Dober
I drew a South San Rafael Swell tag in Utah. (South of I-70 North of Hanksville)
Now if I can just learn to find the rams. At least I have started to find a few ewes.

Not the greatest picture. But here are a ewes skipping across the cliff faces. See the sheep in the lower portion of the photo.

Way cool country!

Thx for sharing

Dober

Oftentimes the simple plex reticle itself will work well as a ballistic reticle.

1 of my coyote fur hunting rigs is a .17 Mach IV XP-100 HG. It shoots the old 30 gr. Starke at around 3300 mv. I'm using the 4-12X Burris plex reticle that subtends (measures) 2.85 SMOA (shooter's minute of angle) according to the Burris website. When zeroed @ 225 (i think--don't have my notes with me now at work), the lower plex post tip is on at 340. When i run the ballistics program, i can then calculate the rest of the dope, i.e. if the 300 yd. zero is 1.6 MOA according to the ballistics program, then if i divide 1.6 by 2.85 i get 0.6. If the 10 mph windage is say 3.7, then 3.7/2.85 = 1.3. Now the entry for that part of the range sticker is--

300-0.6-1.3

...etc. This system allowed me to kill a dog in exactly those conditions 2 years ago. Having a system developed helps tremendously with LR shooting, IMO, and understanding this sytem allows any multi-stadia reticle to be zeroed for any trajectory really.

Another coyote rig i use some is a .223AI AR shooting the 65 JLK Low Drag @ 3050 mv. I LOVE the Rapid Reticle tree-type reticles. The scope i have on top of that rig is the 3-9X 22 Long Rifle rapid reticle that is "trajectory specific", but when adapted for the trajectory of my load out of this AR it's become 1 of my favorite coyote rigs to intermediate range (500 yds.) now.

That's absolutely true. While I primarily click these days, there's no denying a reticle is much faster in situations like this. Targets at different ranges, no contest.

The biggest advantage I see to big game hunting, is situations where you get into shooting position before you know the range. Your buddy yells the range and you can fire instantly without moving. Clicking, especially if you need to find a number on a dropchart first, just can't compete with that for speed. Having a usable reticle you're familiar with as an option is always a good thing.

Of course that doesn't apply to every situation. I hunt alone quite a bit. Since my binocs are my rangefinder, I already know the distance before I've even unslung the rifle. In this situation, a quick turn of the knob doesn't slow me down much. And depending upon the range, the added precision may be well worth it.

I guess this is one reason (precisely holding for windage is another) I'm not in the camp of "either-or." Either a turret with a regular duplex or a reticle without turrets. I want both. I practice with both so I can make use of whichever I feel is most appropriate when the time comes.

Both! Wow.

At my more moderate "long" ranges the reticle seems to be fine, as does the turret.

I'm gonna have to see some serious personal growth as a shooter before I'd even contemplate stretching beyond 500 yards. Put it this way- shooting at the same place, my steel plates course, with the same rest and rifle and load and so on, I will see a POI that is several FEET from the last time I shot up there at my 700-yard plate... and i can't tell why! I can't read the wind; no grass or wavy plants.

At 500 I still get hits from day to day... pretty much. 400, every time.

-jeff

Is this legal to hunt big game with? What does it weigh?

Welcome to the 'fire, hekin237!

It would be legal in Oregon, with a 5-round magazine or as a single shot. Box-fed semi's can only have a 5-rounder.

It's gotta weigh upwards of 15, 16 lbs with the scope and all. It's heavy. I don't see it as a hunting rifle. And I'm not planning on hunting with it, either.

It's friggin' cool though!

-jeff

Interesting. Did not know they weighed that much! Sure would make the guys in my old school hunting camp freak out if I told them I was going to use that on deer! Would be fun to take something like just for the reaction!! : )

They don't all weigh that much... this is the biggest one they make.

-jeff

As a turrets-or-bust kind of guy, I appreciate threads such as this one.

Very good posts.

I think I'm "reticle or bust" inside 400, maybe 500 yards... and then "turrets or bust" beyond that!

I'm confuzzled.

-jeff

Good Stuff
Thanks
HD

Jeff-put in Premier dotz to your fav long range rig to say 700 and then get back to me about this.

To 500 it's a slam dunk, past 500 lots of stuff changes.

Past 700, I'd go with turrets but then again I have no interest in taking game at past 700 so its a moot point.

I've used the dotz a ton load on game in the long range arena. It is stupid simple and deadly quick.

Range and kill.

Guess I am just a dotz kind of guy.

Dober

So much of this stuff is situation and terrain-dependant. I'll be glassing a hillside tomorrow, if I don't tag out in the morning, where a long shot, in the 400 to 550 range, could present itself. But I'll be alone, and it would be an epic adventure to even get over to where the animal is down if I did see and kill one... and I'm not sure how in the hell I'd find it.

In very brushy/woodsy country without a spotter to stay back at the shooting spot and guide you to the downed animal... it might be foolish to even shoot. It would probably take an hour and a half to get to the animal, IF I could find it.

Over where we hunt elk it's a different story, much more open. Much more feasible to find the spot the animal was at when it was shot. That's really the terrain I've been practicing for.

Then there's brand-new, say a year or two old, clearcuts over on this side. It's not impossible to catch a buck in one. The logging slash is pretty brutal to try and get a deer back out of there, though... just about killed myself getting a doe out of a cut a couple years ago.

Maybe I'll take a picture of the hillside I'm talking about, the brushy one, and post it. Without something there for scale though I don't think you guys could get your brains around what you were looking at.

Anyway... there's so much that goes into a long shot, even beyond the shot itself.

-jeff

I've seen a fair bit of country both guiding professionally and hunting for myself so I know what you mean by the terrain being thick on the other side.

Like I said b4-pracitcing teaches one to read the shot the conditions, the wind (as best as it can be done, the angle, the mirrage the so and so on.

It teaches one when to drop the hammer and when not to. Just because a long shot presents itself and just because one is set and ready doesn't mean one should take it. The same goes for close shots as well.

Hey Jeff PM coming your way.

Dober

Shoot an azimuth with your compass. You already know the range. Now enter that point in your GPS. It may sound silly, but not as silly as not doing it and wishing you had.

Note to self: read the manual for the GPS.

-jeff

Cuts can be tough to get in/out of. It's a common scenario for us. They can be real legbreakers...

They look so peaceful and easy from a half-mile or more away though, don't they? Like meadows. Then you get there and realize what looked like grass is waist-high brush with logging slash underneath... or worse...

I was sitting in a cut yesterday watching a bear in a cut on the opposite side of the canyon probably 1000+ yards away... too far for my rangefinder anyway. Anyway, this cut looked so open and like it would be easy to navigate around in, but then there's this big black bear literally disapearing into patches of "grass". D'oh!

-jeff

Critters in the cuts are but one step away from being invisible...

Packed a deer out of one yesterday without my corks, and cussed myself a bit...grin...

GPS use comes in really handy at times!! As long as I could get within 20 feet or so I can find the tracks/blood and good to go. Pretty simple solution I've been using since the late 90s...

Also just realized something.... that a BC type reticle AND target knobs could be the best of both worlds....

Jeff

I do like the idea of an azimuth and distance reading then plugging that into the GPS. Can you just use the "compass" in the GPS for the azimuth?

I can see that the reticla AND turrets could be great for real long distance work. The B&C tops out at around 500 yards. You'd just have to choose a crossbar of the reticle to reference off of for the turret. However... that's getting pretty far out there, from a keeping on top of things perspective.

For me, for now, just a reticle (or turrets) that allow me to function out to 500 yards will be plenty to keep me busy. The main reason is that I cannot seem to hit reliably out past there anyway due to wind and other issues. I don't know what the other issues might be.

-jeff

I built a long range mule deer rifle for a particular area I hunt in Idaho.

It's a long throated 300 Win & has a 3.5x10 Lepuold with a Mil-Dot and turrets.......the B&C wasn't available then or I would have used it instead of the Mil-Dot.

Works well.....dots for ranges to 500 yards or quick use; turrets for longer & time to use them.

MM

The Nighforce with the NPR-2 or NPR-1 reticle is a perfect combination of a MOA reticle combined with turrets.......

That's the system i typically apply also. Just got back from the specialty pistols annual antelope hunt in Casper. Was using my Savage Striker 243 WSSM that has the Leupold VX-III VH reticle on it. With my load (115 Berger @ 2525 mv), the 3rd stadia (7 MOA with 200 yd. zero)is right @ 430 yds. Once it's verified and troubleshot if necessary, i go back to the ballistics program and rezero at that range noting MOA comeups using the 3rd stadia as a zero then...but i also use the lower post tip (4th stadia) as a reticle zero, so comeups are calculated to the 3rd stadia from ranges beyond the 4th stadia's zero. IMO, this is the most flexible ballistic reticle made by the factories--especially for the turret elevation/reticle windage guys due to the excellent windage system right along the reticle's horizontal axis to the tune of 3- 1.77 MOA windage subtension units...but it is not as good as the Rapid Reticles, right here-- www.rapidreticle.com Here's a pic of the rig the kid in the foreground's trying to shoot--





HG hunting partner Ernie Bishop is shooting a custom XP-100 7mm Dakota using Darrell Holland's 2nd generation ART reticle (based on MOA also). This rig gets out there very well with the 200 ULD Wildcat bullet @ 2700 or so--



The rig now has Ward Brien's ACI attched as well as Sinclair's ACD.

That's really the fun part of all of this stuff is learning to apply the reticle to it's fullest potential for vertical, horizontal, and rangefinding, whether it be a ballistic/rangefinding/custom/plex whatever one might have.

I'm kinda late to this thread, but, it's a darn good one guys! I really like turrets, hardly ever hunt without them, but, am about to buy one of the 6X Leupies with the LRD reticle in it, well, just cause! grin

You can; I guess it depends on your screen and how easy it is to sight over accurately. I find it easier to sight with a real compass. Of course the easiest way for me to do it by far is setting the Newcon to the mode that tells me azimuth every time I range something. That�s also helpful for navigation (non-GPS).

Though with that or the GPS unit, I�m always a little suspicious of electronic compasses if you don�t, at the very least, check their calibration often. Maybe I�m just paranoid but I don�t think of them as replacements for the real thing for more than short periods of time.

Some GPS units have an electronic compass and some do not. The ones that do not still show a direction of travel as you are moving . If you stand still and move the GPS in a circle, the bearing does not change.

It is very difficult to take a bearing with these "non compass" GPS units.