Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Deer Hunting Winchester power points

Any of you ever had issues with super-x power points not getting pass throughs. My son has killed 3 deer with his 308 using 180 grain PP’s. They seem to hit like a ton of bricks but on all 3 deer there was no exit. 2 were shot broad side at around 150 yards and one quartering at 200. I get the quarter shot but not the other two. I would think a 180 at 2600 or so would exit. Like I said they seem to kill quick and hit hard but the lack of pass through is worrying. Thinking of dropping to a 165 AB.

Interesting. I also would expect on average that a 180 grain bullet would exit on broadside hits on deer.

Thats pretty interesting. About 20 years ago I came into a m77 all weather in 308 and three boxes of 150 power points. I zeroed in a few shots and its been my loaner rifle since. that rifle takes a deer or three most years. Every few years I shoot a round or two to check zero but at least 20 of the rounds have gone into deer and not one bullet has been recovered that I know of. I always figured the power point was pretty good penetrator.

Broadside through the shoulders? Broadside through the ribs? How widely did they expand?

Smartass question: Is the idea to pass through the deer or hit them hard and kill them quick?

Yeah i like an exit wound myself but to each his own......Hb

I've had pass throughs with the 180gr power points I load in my 30-06. No reason a 308 wouldn't do the same.


They shoot damn well too. No issues whatsoever using them on deer..

BSA very nice. That M-70 is a shooter. I would be very happy to carry that in the deer woods. Xycod, I have only shot 5 deer with 180 Win Power points. 3 with a 308 and 2 with a 30-06. All pass throughs with good results at 75 - 125 yds. Mostly bang flop drt. one went maybe 25 - 30 yds. The only reason I haven't shot more of them is my gun doesn't group them like BSA'S group on the target above. It shoots 150, 165 and 168 grain bullets much better. I like an exit hole in a deer as well. You said " Thinking of dropping to a 165 AB." I think thats a good idea. Give it a try. I have been deer hunting for over 50 years. I always shoot what ever bullet groups best in that gun, as long as it is of good construction. I don't think it matters much if it's a 150, a 165, or a 180. If you put it in the right place your gonna kill the deer. IMO, a good bullet and shot placement are more important than the bullet weight.

Xycod how much did he saw off the barrel?..mb

He’s shooting a 20 inch Mauser m12 which is an awesome little gun. The listed velocity is around 2620 I think but I haven’t chrono’ed it, and that’s probably a 24 inch or 22 inch bbl velocity. Again, they kill quick and tend to hit harder than I expected, couldn’t ask for better but the lack of exit wounds has me worried about losing a deer if they get in the think stuff. I’ll probably go to a bonded 165 of some sort next year to be safe.

It you want to save a little money over the bonded stuff I’ve had outstanding luck with the 150 Hornady Interlock out of my 300 Savages. Velocity might be similar to the short barrel 308 you’re using and I think I’ve only caught one and it was an end to end shot.

That does seem very unusual for a 180 grain anything. Our camp shot a lot of deer with .308 and .30-06's and 180's were the WI. deer hunting standard for a lot of years. I personally never used the PP's, but assumed that out of twelve guys give or take, some of us did and we never caught a single bullet. Dad and I both shot .308's and used the Remington 180 grain round nose Core-Lokt which I figure would be pretty similar to the Power-Points.

According to the chart published in Handloader Magazine by Gary Sciuchetti testing a huge number of 180 grain .30 caliber bullets, the Power-Point at 2,600 fps penetrated 15" and weighed 142 grains in Gary's target medium. At the same 2,600 fps the Remington round nose Core-Lokt penetrated 13.3" and weighed 113 grains. The pointed Core-Lokt at 2,600 fps penetrated 14.2" and weighed 121 grains. What that is telling me is that the Power-Point was a slightly stronger constructed bullet in Gary's tests. Is it possible that .308 cartridges from a 150 grain box got put into a 180 grain box? I once started a tread asking what bullets have any of the guys ever stopped in a deer and I was pretty surprised how many guys had stopped the 150's from .308's and .30-06's. A 165 grain Hornady Interlock zipped right through a 210 pounder from my .308.

I've killed a bunch of elk with the 180 grain Super X power point factory ammo out of my 30/06. I don't over think it-------they kill stuff.

I use 150 grain GameKings in my 308. They pass through deer and pigs with ease. I used 64 grain power points in 223’s, passed through pigs fine. You would think a 180 would blow right through.

Sierra Game Kings and Hornady Inter-loks have always got the job done for me. Never have drunk the premium bullet Kool-aid.

Why is it Kool-aid?

My buddy used a 140gr PowerPoint in factory ammo and got an exit on an elk at 200 yards with his 7mm-08. Broadside shot through the ribs.

I used a150 grain Power Point in 18" barreled 308 Win this year. Shot a small last day 2 point mule deer buck at 75 yards away looking straight at me. The bullet entered between rib cage and shoulder, breaking 3 ribs, entered the chest cavity and was recovered in flank 34" away from entrance. Recovered weight an even 100 grains. Picture perfect expansion. The deer actually did a complete backflip and didn't wiggle. I collect and study recovered bullets. I have in excess of 200 bullets recover from game from marmots to bison. I will wait till the animal is in the correct position to facilitate the recovery of the spent bullet. This Power Point amazed me that it stayed together, core and jacket. From My experience if this had been a Cor-Lokt the bullet would have lost its jacket and the lead evaporate. I detest Cor-Lokt's. Once recovered a Power Point 180 grain fired from a 300 Win Mag at a bison at mere feet away. Bullet was again picture perfect expansion and no core separation.

AS I only hunt whitetails at woods ranges, premium bullets are an un-necessary expense therefor Kool-aid.

In the past, I used Win.PP's a lot. In my not so humble opinion, they are great bullets, but it does seem odd you aren't getting pass-throughs on deer. What did the bullets look like?

I bought several boxes of 150gr 308 a few yrs ago cheap having no time to reload after shooting several deer my synopsis is I’d rather use my hand loads of interlocks or ballistic tips but they did kill the deer

Where did you find the bullets and what condition were they in?

I regularly find cup and core bullets under the skin on the off-side after they have penetrated through both sides of the rib cage.

Like others have said, I'd expect 180 grain factory loads from FED/REM/WIN to provide through and through penetration on broadside shots on average size deer.

Shot one deer w WW 100gr PP in .243 at about 50 yards
Zipped right on through w minimal damage .
Was double lunged.
No shoulder hit.

I have 150s for my 3006.
Wanted maybe 165s.
They shoot sub MOA ( 150s ), may get to try em this yr

Would expect 180s to exit. Esp at shorter bbl .308V.
Have six boxes of the Norma Oryx 180s in .308.
My .308 is an autoloader desigbed for lighter bullets so
will trade these off

Had a boat paddle 77 in .308 that did fine w the Hornady American Whitetail 150s, whatever those bullets were.
Never took it hunting. Minimal exp.rifle.hunting deer but would seem that 180s are a bit much in a .30

Know guys that love em in 760/742, see through rings and all LOL

I'd bet out of that 20" they are more along the lines of around 2450 or so. I just chrony'd a friends 308 with factory 165 Hornady Interlocks in his wifes gun (20"). Box claimed 2700. Real world: 2500.

That said, it looks like they are working fine and putting them down, I wouldn't worry about it, can't kill them any deader with a bonded or mono.

I've recovered more powerpoints than any bullet. But I've never lost an animal to one and they all mushroomed nicely, if that matters

The 1st was stuck in ribs on opposite side, the other lodged just under the skin on far side at the back of shoulder. The quartering shot did the most damage, bullet lodged in the opposite shoulder. They did the job though, 3 dead deer and no tracking.

Broad, rounded mushrooms?

I've shot a few WT's and an antelope with 100gr .243 winchester power points. Can't recall if there were pass throughs, don't really care since all dropped where they were standing.

Passed right through the paper?

I filed down a Winchester Power Point to do a cross section of the bullet,I think it was a 7mm 150gr.The first thing I noticed was how hard the jacket was.Unlike other bullets I have cross sectioned,the jacket,rather on the thin side,was more like hard brass than copper.

Me too. We have taken 4 moose, an elk, quite a few deer.

My M1917 .30-06 loves the Winchester Power Points in 180 gr.

Moose, elk, and deer that I have shot have dropped in their tracks.

For the price point, you just can't beat them.

In page 1 of this thread, I recalled a mule deer I shot last year and the recovered Power Point bullet. This year I used a 30-06 and 220 grain Power point. I waited till the deer was facing me and broke front shoulder and the bullet was recovered on opposite side under the hide near the hind quarter. Over 2 feet of penetration. Recovered weight 177 grains and picture-perfect mushroom. Grandson shot a doe mule deer with a 243 Win and 100 grain Power Point. Broadside lung shot and a complete pass through,

I run 130’s in a 270 with 58 grains of RL22 DRT. Shot through the ribs just behind the shoulder. Pass through. Accurate and deadly.

It passes through deer sized game. Just because I rarely post pics of the critters I shoot (they deserve more respect than that), you guys make smart azzed comments. Hope you enjoy the target pics too. I have many many more. When I saw this thread, I thought, the OP must not know how to make a good heart/lung shot on an animal. Trust me, it starts out with being proficient. Look at that target again, and ask who here is proficient at hitting their mark. You are more than welcome to post pictures of your groups shot with the 180gr Winchester Powerpoints. That is still one of my favorite bullets launched from the 30-06. Most of mine love that load.

It not only passes thru deer, it also passes through 2 thickness of paper:


Same load, different rifle.

Oh shiit, wait. Did I hit the orange dot again? That pisses you off doesn't it? Ha ha...

I'll bet your BSA loves that bullet. When mine was a 30-06, it loved the 165 Hornady interlock, 180gr PP, 200gr Nosler partition. If you guys shooting 30-06 are worried about not getting pass throughs, step up to the 200gr partition. That is one digging bullet.

Try some 150 grain Nosler ballistic tips.

I haven't used Win PP's in 30 years since I reload. The one time I did, it was a factory 130 in a 270. I had a 3x3 mulie quartering toward me in light brush at maybe 75 yds. My best target was the front shoulder. The bullet went under the hide but didn't penetrate. It slid under the hide the full length of the ribcage before it entered at a less than ideal spot. Luckily, when he cleared the brush he ran across a hillside of sage and grass. He ran for 300 yds or more before he went down. I had him in sight the whole time or I'd have probably lost him as he didn't leave any tracks in the grass.
It's anybody's guess on how a different bullet would have penetrated.

The last buck I shot with PPs was very slightly angled toward me at about 25 yards. At the shot he dropped but then tried to get back up. Shot him again behind the shoulder.

The first shot hit his shoulder and ran up the shoulder blade and out the top of his back. The second just behind the shoulder and blew a fist sized exit hole

150 grain Power Points from a 308. As Rock Chuck said, who knows with a different bullet. Maybe incorrectly I left with the impression of not very good on bone and destructive when not. Haven’t used them since.

Hi bsa1917hunter,

You are correct!

I never take pictures of my targets, maybe I should. Before hunting season I go to my friend's farm and take a few shots just to make sure the scope didn't get knocked around. Last time I did that my target looked like yours.

I will also tell you that they are deadly on moose even at a distance. I killed the moose below with my BSA @ 500 yards. I dropped him, he got up to my surprise, and staggered into the woods, and died about 50-70 yards from where he got up from.

The only cartridge I have ever used in my BSA M1917 has been Winchester SuperX PowerPoint in 180 grain, When my father gave me the rifle he said it shoots 165 gr. the best, but I do not see how 165 gr. can shoot better than 180 gr. since I shoot sub-MOA with the 180 gr.

You mentioned in one of your posts:

"When I saw this thread, I thought, the OP must not know how to make a good heart/lung shot on an animal. Trust me, it starts out with being proficient."

I have been a big game bow hunter for as long as I have been a big game rifle hunter. Because of that I have trained myself to shoot at the Heart and Lungs, and that is where I aim unless the animal is so close that a Neck shot is available, then I take the neck shot because I am a meat hunter and I hate wasting meat, and it makes for cleaner processing in the field. I prefer rounds that do not pass through the animal because a bullet does more damage bouncing around inside the cavity than passing through.

I have watched a ton of Americans on video-taped hunts where most of these hunters shoot at the shoulder. I understand the thinking, but I think it's silly to do that because of all of the wasted venison.

I have killed more deer with the Winchester SuperX PowerPoints in 180 gr, than I can remember.

Great shooting you posted above and wishing you and our family an Awesome, healthy, and joyous 2024!

In some instances, I use 180 gr Nosler partitions in a 30-378 stepping out at an initial 3,385 fps. Targets have been caribou, moose, and elk. Never had a pass through yet and often there's no visible damage to the off side of the body cavity. Not found a slug either.

No animals have complained though.

Guess you’ll have to go back to, “I never think to take pics”. That was comedy gold.




https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/19061133/1

They deserve not to be blown away too yet here we are

Somewhere on the internet is a picture of collected fired bullets ( I think they were 180 grain .30 caliber) from controlled firing at different MV (fps), simulating bullet performance at various distances ( ie 100, 200, 300 yards). Bullets were all the well-known makers, including the Winchester Power Point ( again, I think it was the 180 grain .308).. All were fired in the same material ( don't remember if it was ballistic gelatin or not, but in my view it was a consistent and reliable material for catching bullets).

The picture was like a big bullet board of all the mushroomed bullets. At closer range (ie 100 yards?), thethe bullets showed more expansion ( even some with jacket separation). Bullets from increasing "longer distances mimiced by slower MV) had less bullet expansion. No surprise with that info.

One of my takeaways from studying the bullet board, was how well the Winchester Power Points performed. No jacket separations. Excellent expansion at various velocities ("distances"). If the Power Points weren't the "best", they were a close second. Bottom line, in those testing criteria, the Power Points were a textbook succes at all velocities. They expanded fully at "close distance ( highest velocity), and still had excellent expansion at lowest tested velocity ( "furthest distance", maybe simulating 300?, 400? 500? yards.

Relating this this to the OP's observation that bullet pass through did not occur on his deer, perhaps the rapid and full expansion of the Power Points ( without jacket failure) decelerated enough ("dumped a lot of energy in the deer's body), to not be able to punch an exit hole. This would be consistent with the OP's comment that the Power Powers "hammered" the deer. To me, it seems like textbook bullet performance, just like what was observed from that bullet board.

This may be a case. If you WANT and exit hole on a deer, you may need to reduce the MV by 100-200 fps, so the bullet wouldn't be so fully expanded. A smaller frontal diameter will decelerate less, and likely penetrate deeper. Case in point, there is a good video online of a guy shooting a 300 Win Mag and a 30-30 into a bunch of lined up water-filled 1 gallon plastic jugs. Fired from close range (25? 50? yards), the full velocity (2800-2900 fps?)180(?) grain Win Mag factory load gave spectacular jug explosion, and maybe penetrated 5-6 jugs. The slower (2200 fps?) 170 grain 30-30 bullet had no where near the explosive effect on the water jugs ( but still good), but the penetration was much more by 2-3 more jugs. Granted different bullets and design, and 10 grain difference in weight), but likely the slower MV 30-30 bullet had less frontal diameter, with less deceleration ( "braking" forces) to create more penetration.

So, maybe loading down a little slower will give more penetration and produce an exit wound.

Just spitballing.

Very cool pictures my friend. I love that BSA rifle of yours too. You better hang on to that one! They don't make them like that anymore. I'd take it over a pre 64 model 70, and I love the model 70's.

As for the 180gr Winchester power points, maybe they don't make those like they used to either??? Just a thunk? I know the ones I shot into the target, from my 30-06 fwt and H&R 340 were slightly different looking than the newer ones I bought a few years ago. Sadly, I have not even loaded up any of those newer Power Points either. I'm hoping they shoot the same as the old ones!!!

If the OP is experiencing bullet failure, or non pass throughs with that newer bullet, maybe Winchester changed the design??? I see this is an older thread, but it is not uncommon for bullet manufactures to change stuff, sometimes not for the better too!!! Hornady is guilty of doing this with their interlocks especially. FN around with the ogive location and bullet shape.

With that being said, the newer 180gr (30 cal) Power Points look like they have a slightly skinnier nose profile than the older ones. If I still have some of the older ones loaded up, I may pull one, and post a picture of the old one vs. the new one. I will tell you, though, as you already know, the old ones shot damn well and worked great on deer and elk sized critters. Which is apparent in your pictures and from my own experience. Even if the stupid fu cks like that SLM (meth attic POS) doesn't get it.

Pretty interesting. I don't believe the bullet you choose is all that important on most animals. What is is how the user uses what he has. Little old Indian woman in Canada has the #2 world record Grizzly Bear and killed it with a 22 short! For myself that wouldn't work but does go to show what happens when you can use what you have! Oh yea, from what I'd read, she did it on purpose!

Bella Twin used a single shot 22 rifle with Longs. One shot kill then a number of insurance shots. Not on purpose. Her and a granddaughter were walking on a brushy trail when she saw the bear coming. Ducking into the brush to let him pass, as he got alongside them, he winded them. As he looked towards her granddaughter, the shot that keeps the internet buzzing was taken.

What's a meth attic?

I wish I had computer skills because there is an interesting photo of a 308 Winchester that is loaded with 180 grain power point bullet, and it had been "sectioned" basically cut in half lengthwise. You can see the construction of the PowerPoint bullet. Very heavy jacket with a thicker section at the cannelure. Very similia to Remington's Cor-Lok produced prior to the 1970's. The photo is on the International Ammunition Collecters forum.

I thought the idea was for a bullet to expend all of its energy within the deer's body. It's about hydrostatic shock which disrupts the nervous system producing quick kills, with pass throughs that's not happening. The pass through produces two wounds for increased blood loss and hemorrhagic demise. I've taken whitetails both ways successfully, it's something I don't lose any sleep over.