Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting states that allow x-bows in archery season

i have been told 46 states allow x-bows during archery season for Handi-cap hunters i feel that is wonderful ,some of us are now handi - cap because of age or health maybe both too. not sure but i think there are some Federal provision to help handi-cap hunters . i also have been following the law suit in Montana about not allowing x-bows during archery season for true handi-cap hunters . Montana Bowhunter Association is totally against handi - cap bowhunters in archery season this sure seems selfish and shameful . i do hope the Federal government steps in and changes this rule / law , there is a lot of Federal land in Montana that could have a different rule / law on this ? maybe the Feds could also take some funds away from Montana tell they change this x-bow rule / law ? SHAME ON MONTANA !

Link? What is an X-Bow?

My question exactly? What am I missing.

CROSS BOW

Ok now I feel stupid are we talking a normal crossbow?

Yep sorry a little slow this morning

[quote=Vegasred]Ok now I feel stupid are we talking a normal crossbow?[/quote

> all legal CROSSBOWS ! geesh

Maybe those living in Blue states need not worry about Montana

so doesn`t Montana still have a blue governor ? Montana funds are green and most comes from the Feds that can be Blue or Red politics ? non -resident licenses these people may be Blue or Red voters your statement is foolish ! > most land owned to camp ,fish and hunt on in Montana is Federal land you need to understand its American land !

Legal in Georgia for everyone during Archery and regular season

i think that`s great for Georgia ! seem`s shameful that Montana won`t even honor handi - cap or disabled bowhunters in the warmer archery season , this so called Montana Bowhunter Association needs the Feds to look into this Montana Bowhunter Association on taxes maybe ? or maybe just defund the state of Montana with Fed funds ? this is American Federal land in Montana this group " Montana Bowhunter Association " thinks they can control Federal land in Montana and that`s just very wrong and very shameful we are all American`s .

Crossbows legal for everyone the last two weeks of archery season in NY. Legal for handicapped for the entire archery season. Should be legal for everyone for the entire archery season and would be if not for the whiny little bitches known as the NY bow hunters assn..They have fought it tooth and nail for years.

Legal in PA during all deer seasons. The PA Bowhunters Assocation also opposed the use of Xbows in archery seasons. It turned out to be a non issue.

it should be a National non-issue for x-bows on all Federal land and a decrease in Federal funds for any state that does not allow x-bow use for handi -cap / disabled bowhunters during any hunting season including all of the entire archery hunting season . > even Alaska allows x-bows for handi -cap bowhunters , i guess Montana has too many rich whiners in the Montana Bowhunter Association !

It is the individual state's right to set the rules just as it should be.
It is their job to manage the resource.
And it is not about a resident of another state's opinions.

i would agree on state owned Montana land ,but not on private land or Federal land , as far as management Montana does a poor job managing deer and elk and prices of Non- Resident license is ridiculous high compared to resident licenses , Montana has no common sense as do many western states on Federal land . we are all residents on Federal land in America ! >so then if you feel Federal land is Montana land why does the Federal Government send tax funds to Montana for the Federal land ?

So if Montana sucks at game management so bad why would you want to hunt there then?

Is it about hunting or cost of license?

States manage private, state owned and federal lands within their boundaries.
If you don't like that particular state's rules, don't go there. Simple.

You should boycott Montana.

Tell your friends to do the same.

pete53: Me thinks thou knowst NOT of what he speaketh!
REPUBLICAN Greg Gianforte IS the Governor of Montana - I know I worked long and hard and donated to him! I celebrated when he won.
We also have a Republican as our lone Montana United States Representative and one of our United States Senators is a Republican and a Republican is leading in the polls for our soon to be SECOND United States Congressional Representative which will be in effect come November!
Our state legislature is solid Republican in both houses and the populous in Montana will NOT re-elect jon "two fingers" (d) testor as United States Senator should that back stabbing son of a bitchin demonrat decide to run again!
President Donald J. Trump won Montana by 57% to 40% for china joe biden and his ho in 2,020.
So, IF... you are implying that Montana is a demonrat state you are ignorant of the facts!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

About the same here. Colorado Archery hunters seem to think no one should be in the woods except them for all of September and that includes all grazing permits.

I have a life time crossbow permit to use one in archery season due to a replaced right shoulder. I was all set to go in 2021. I had bought all I needed in terms of equipment . After all the whining I heard about it, I said the heck with it and sold the whole thing. I'd rather go out with my muzzle loader and pi$$ them off.

Which surprised me when they changed the law. Georgia was the LAST state to allow compound bows and I didn't expect them to make crossbows legal. When I 1st started hunting longbows and recurves were the only option here. Compound bows weren't legal here until the early or mid 1980's. But they did allow handicapped hunters to use crossbows for several years before making them legal for everyone.

glad Montana finally did turn Red again ! they did in the past have a Liberal Governor.. so when is Montana going to overrule these Montana Archery Association selfish bowhunters so handi-cap bowhunters can hunt in Montana during all of the archery season ? still seems shameful that the handi-cap and disabled can still pay taxes but have no rights to hunt when its warm during the entire archery season ? maybe the political correct people can show a little effort and help us crippled young and old regular people , Montana show a little unselfish pride !

Have to agree, bow hunters are evil and should have seasons removed. lol

yes some are just very selfish some feel very elite above the rest of us peons

Boy you sure do want to hunt Montana really bad your way even though they have no deer or elk. I'm confused.

at my age and health i don`t want to start learning a new state for elk and deer ,i know why , when ,what and where in Montana for deer and elk and don`t need to pay a outfitter / guide and i have some great friends in Montana.

Michigan does!!! I think that it should be deer season. Hunt with what you want. Done deal.

Makes sense. But we all have to give things up at some point too. Maybe its getting to be that time. Forcing folks to adapt to one persons desire isn't always smart.

Of course since they are so horrible at management there likely isn't anything left to shoot Grins.

Then again you never can rely on hunting the same place for life. You have to learn new areas as animals change, habitat changes etc... so thats no different than a new state. FWIW.

Flexible is a big thing in successful hunting.

As was said above cross bows are legal in PA during any Deer season BUT this is for any hunter not just handicapped. I have an acquaintance who is a former compound hunter who was drawn to the cross bow who regularly works out with 100 pound dumbbells and says he can't pull a compound

In my opinion , given the technological advances in cross bow tech and the use of optics, etc., there should be a limit to the season just like Flintlock season in PA. Flintlock is about 3 weeks long beginning the day after Christmas and optics, cap locks, inlines, etc. are not allowed .

My reasoning is the killing of big bucks. A lot of the best trophy sized bucks are taken by cross bow hunters during the peak of the rut. I'm not saying that big bucks are ever "easy" as we all know this is not the case but given the short ranges that most whitetail are taken in PA, the somewhat increased vulnerability and visibility of the bigger bucks at this time and the effectiveness of the modern cross bow, it just doesn't seem right.....

I'm not sure if this is fair to regular archery hunters or especially rifle hunters during the subsequent buck season.I'm not against cross bows but I think it should be regulated like flintlock.In PA, cross bows are allowed during the entire archery season which lasted from Oct 2 to Nov 19 and IMO, the technologically advanced cross bow can hardly be labled as archery.

How many times have you been bow hunting and on seeing a wall hanger just out of range, said to yourself "if it was only rifle season" or if a cross bow it would be an easy shot?

By the way Pope and Young does not recognize cross bow kills for their Archery record books.

By the way Pope and Young does not recognize cross bow kills for their Archery record books.


Nope and there's a reason for it.......

i could care less about P & Y or B. C.

There are 22 states that do not allow crossbows during regular archery season. I cannot imagine lugging a crossbow around on a mountain archery hunt.

You have been watching or reading too many Ravin commercials or ads. If you are a proficient compound or recurve archer you can shoot at longer ranges then most people consider ethical, I have a self imposed 40 yard limit on my crossbows. I can hit a target every time at 80 yards but shooting at a target out in a backyard is a lot different then shooting in the woodlands and things like wind, unseen branches can result in a bad scenario.

Pete thanks for the heads up. I joined the Montana Bowhunters Association. I had been a member in the past but let it expire. That won’t happen again.

no if your handi cap as i am if you do the right paper work for each state ,you can get a handi -cap permit for 46 states in America and it should be for all 50 states a federal law for handi-cap, this is free nation in America . look how a Federal judge in America could rule on timber wolves in 3 states 1,000 miles away from California is that right ?

I seem to recall, that a couple of years ago, you were fully supportive, of the fat bastard poacher (Ron Kluless - shartstains), rabid push to have crossbows banned, during archery season, in WI ??????????

Hypocrite much !!

i have no problem with Ron but no i was not against x-bows myself > YOUR WRONG >> A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY SHOULD BE ABLE TO USE A X- BOW IN THE ENTIRE ARCHERY SEASON IS MY ANSWER in all 50 states

Wisconsin 2021, 38,147 deer killed by bow, 57,071 killed by crossbow

looks like the youth , regular hunters, old retired people and handi-cap are able to get out in the nice weather and shoot a deer with a x-bow. good for them !

Montana does allow people that are "certified & permanently disabled" to apply for a permit to modify archery equipment. They then can use archery tackle that supports the bow, and draws, holds, and releases the string to accommodate the individual disability.
For more information Contact the Montana Bowhunters at https://mtba.org

i have that certified permit and that equipment its a joke, difficult to use for a handi cap person and carry, its ridiculous Montana should be ashamed of this thought for a Handi-cap person to use. what it appears to me is the Montana Bowhunters association rules and wants is to only allow vertical bows for their own selfish ways and feel like superior hunters in the wild mountains of Montana with a bow so they think they are better than the rest of us. sad and shameful . i hope the feds move in on this organization and change the rule / law for the x-bow to be allowed during all of the archery season in Montana for the Handi-cap at least on all Federal land or take funds away from Montana .

I’m fine with truly handicapped people using a crossbow in archery season. But the last thing we need is the feds getting involved in states hunting regs. The feds have screwed up enough of our country.

I have a handicap-cap document from SDG&P. I think I could do cross bow. I hunt in Wyoming a bit and if I applied I could get the handicap-cap designation, So far I rely on my offspring to help after shooting something.
I agree that the Federal government is so [bleep] up that they destroy most everything they get their hands on.

the Feds are involved now look how a Federal judge from California made the ruling on timber wolves in Minnesota so Montana Bowhunter Association needs to be rattled by the Feds.

All NH Archery hunters can use the crossbow in " M " Zone during archery season from Sept 15th to Dec 15th. Anybody that is 68 or older can use the crossbow without a handicap permit for the rest of the state. This is a new law for 68 and older. You do have to have the archery license.

Ken

that is a very good common sense law good for your N.H. state ,Minnesota`s law is handi-cap with doctor permit or 60 years of age to use a x-bow during all of archery season ,another common sense law..

Some bow hunters are whiny and jealous, hunt with whatever makes you happy. Where I'm from a dead deer is a dead deer.

so true you only have one tag per person for deer and elk in Montana

Idaho allows them for handicapped hunters during archery seasons. You just need a permit from the F&G. They're legal for anyone during the general season.

another great law for the handi-cap ,here is my problem i have been hunting Montana for 20 some years and now at 68 years of , 4 back surgeries ,neck surgery ,knee surgery both shoulders have had surgery and are in bad shape one needs replacement doc says ,heart surgery all thru the years many the the last 10 years . i was a climbing REA lineman for 35 years , my body is in bad shape but i could use a x-bow kinda . but i have some great hunting areas in Montana and good friends to stay and hunt with. i am to old to start over. besides my son has shot some huge bulls with his bow myself mine were not as big but i call well for him. if i was younger i would have started in Idaho much more friendly for non-resident bowhunters that`s for sure. thanks for posting ,Pete53

The reason most states have approved crossbows is you still only have one shot. It takes time to reload a crossbow. Recurves and compound bows may allow you to get off another shot.

Someone did some studies. The average hunter is only accurate for about 30 yards on recurves and compounds. Crossbows can give you 20 extra yards, depending on the power of the bow, so 50 yard maximum for average hunter. Crossbows have to be reloaded by using your foot and pulling with both hands, or use a crank. Both take more time. Anyway, the kill ratio is about 10% for all bow hunters, about 11-12% for black powder guns, and about 20% for rifle hunters, as they have more range of accuracy. Don't understand Montana about this. A really good archer could probably kill out to 100 yards.

The bottom reason for xbows is money. the more licenses sold is more money for the dnr. Always plenty of deer

Sounds about right. I can do 50, but very few spots on my public patch offer shots that long. The doe I took last season was at 40. If I was able to cock it again in my hang-on, I could’ve doubled, but that ain’t happening! Maybe I should buy that 2-shot Excalibur, -NOT! Hard enough to haul one of those woods rats a mile to the car, let alone two.

legal in oklahoma where i hunt

Can you have 2 x-bows in a stand, both locked and loaded?

Can, as far as I can tell, but one is heavy enough, thank you very much. Also possibly the most awkward thing I’ve ever toted around. Finally smartened up and started packing the quiver on my pack.

You might consider just tagging along with your son and doing the calling for him.
We're all dealing with the realities of aging and the simple fact that the world isn't expected to cater to any of us – save that for the democrats.

If that doesn't suffice, find a state that's more open to your needs. You've beotched more about Montana in past threads than the entire collective of Montana resident members here.

being handi-cap even to carry 1 - x-bow is hard ,i sure in heck would not wanna carry 2 - x-bows , ido carry my 3 arrow quiver in my pack that is another problem to deal with. i di go too a Ravin just because that brand x- bow can decock farely easy and can be cocked in a stand ok but it is noisy when you shoot..

So...95,218 deer killed in Wisconsin with arrows. Hmmmm.

Montana should set its own rules.

I feel for someone that is to handicapped to hunt or anything else made more challenging for them. Hunting and many sports and outdoor activities come with the expectation of a certain physically capable expectation. The notion that everything needs to be made easier and diluted down or that everyone deserves a participation trophy. To the point that the Feds need to dictate to Montana crossbow laws for deer hunters is buffoonish.

I couldn’t agree more.

well then maybe all Federal land should have its own Federal rules including if your a legal American citizen and hunt only on Federal land we should be able to buy a resident license in all states in America and that money goes directly to the Federal government. . Montana makes a lot of money of non-resident license ,gas tax. motels ,cafes ,grocery stores ,butcher shops , sporting good stores and yes Federal government sends a lot of money to Montana too . so i think Montana needs to play by federal rules better not Montana Bowhunter Association . just maybe someone will read what has been posted and be able talk to the right Federal judge and this rule will be change for the good of all Americans not just the selfish bowhunters of Montana Bowhunter Association. here is a good example of true America hero who truthfully can not use a drawn bow anymore , he is Viet Nam frontline wounded Marine got hit with a mortar and lived but has a horrible shoulder that can not be used with a bow and lives in Montana but he could use a x-bow some , but he is also denied and this is shameful .

Good for Montana!

If it's not mentioned in the Constitution it is a States right issue.If you don't like the rules of Montana stay the [bleep] home!

Pete your telling half the story or you haven’t read the Montana hunting regulations. A crossbow can be used during general season. It also can be used in weapon reaction areas during general season. As to your time of year complaint, the are three units that general season starts September 15th. These three units are predominantly federal land.

Yeah, states get to make their regulations for hunting the wildlife held in trust for their residents, it's been litigated.
Funny how many complain about our rights being eroded but yet some want the fed. gov't involved in states issues.

Crossbows are legal in Wyoming for archery or rifle seasons.

You can buy one that's a double.

https://excaliburcrossbow.com/bows/twinstrike/

those are small areas with no elk i have hunted one of them .the big problem is still no x-bows for handi-cap in Montana during the archery season in the nicer weather.

Small areas with no elk 😂🤣😂. That sums it pup. Pete53 is a clueless moron!

Around here everyone has a crossbow.

Always hear the same story too. It was sited in for 40 yards, but I took a shot at 60. So they either wing it or miss completely.

I agree totally. Permit to Hunt From a Vehicle certification had to be overhauled due to the number of people abusing the system. I can see the same thing happening if crossbows are ever allowed in the archery season.

was said the same thing kinda when they allowed compounds,release aids ,80 % letoff and probably more like lighted nocks

Two minutes to Wapner. Definitely two minutes.

Wapner's on at 6:00 PM. Gotta go!

Yeah, that's exactly what we need--the federal government regulating hunting.

Double sheesh.

let`s put it this way why are non-resident licenses so high compared to residents in this these western states ? either all legal American citizens on Federal land pay resident license fees or everyone no mater what state you live in pay a Federal license fee to hunt Federal land and fed`s set the rules and laws . western states are abusing legal American citizens on Federal land with these high prices . someone has got to make it fare on Federal lands of America . if your a resident of Colorado when you get your large population of wolves established from your new legal liberal residents from California let me know how that`s working you better hope someone in Washington like Trump agrees to hunt wolves ,that`s when you will need the fed`s. sheesh back maybe try to quit smoke`n so much weed and think.

When half a state is untaxed federal land that throws all the tax burden on the remaining land owners.

I wish they would charge 10x for people hunting out of COUNTY. Stay home and throw your trash in YOUR OWN back yard. Shoot up your own trees and buildings and rip roar down the street in front of you OWN house. Trespass on your OWN neighbors.

Pete, honestly you crack me up. What's your deal,, no one says shìt that stupid without trying.

smokepole , what makes you right ? these high price non-resident license fees are hurting the average hunter in American and that will hurt hunting even more for everyone or are you to foolish to understand what is happening ? some one needs to take back Federal land control we all own that land or do you wanna just see the rich hunting on it or just the wolves ? the other small part is the handi -cap rule /law in 46 states in America do have fare laws to benefit handi-cap hunters even Colorado does . another problem some very wealthy people are buying lots of land surrounding federal land so they are basically controlling some of that Federal land too and states are doing nothing about that either maybe its time the Feds step in grant hunter access on all Federal land , help handi cap hunters , lower prices on non-resident fees an example would be non-residents pay 3 times what a resident pays for a license. so if a resident pays $30.00 for a elk license a non-resident pays $90.00 not $700 ,800 or $900.00 that is just very wrong , that`s why the Feds need to step in to keep states and rich people from controlling federal land , charging these high prices on non-resident licenses and not allowing handi- cap people to hunt somewhat easier.

We are being overrun by nonresident hunters in some units here in Idaho. Washington, California, Texas, Utah, and all the Mid western states. Tired of it. I would pay more as a resident for license and tags if IDFG would limit non resident tags.

Maybe if you want to kill [bleep] that bad the easiest way possible you should try a pay to kill elk ranch.

Idaho non-res tags ARE limited. This year's non-res deer and elk tags are already sold out except for the draw hunts. In those, non-res are limited to no more than 10% of the tags.

The old argument always comes up about non-residents being charged so much for hunting on federal land, belonging to everyone. That's true, it is public land. However, it's long established law that all game animals belong to the states whether they're on private or public land. You're free to wander all over federal land. You can hike, bike, take photos, camp, about everything. You just can't shoot STATE OWNED animals without paying for them.
The mountain states, because of weather and soil, can't handle nearly as many animals as the eastern states. For example, just to grab 2 states, AL has nearly 3 times more deer than Idaho has deer and elk combined, even though ID has 50% more land area. Much of that land is only usable by the animals for part of the year. They're forced to migrate each winter. If you add summer and winter ranges together, it can take twice the land to support them.
So many hunters want a chance at a really big elk or mule deer rack and there just aren't nearly enough animals to go around. Fish and Game departments are charged with regulating the hunting to keep animals numbers at optimum levels for the land. The one way that can do it is to limit the number of non-resident hunters. Those are state run agencies and their charges are state owned animals. They simply can't open it up to the world's hunters. The animal populations would be decimated in a year if it was.

It's not so much what makes me "right" pete, it's what makes you wrong. Regulation of hunting has always been at the state level, as regulation of most anything you can think of should be. The reach of the federal government and its control over our everyday activities like sports and recreation should be limited at every opportunity, not expanded. Anyone who advocates for more federal control and more federal regulation of hunting has his head firmly planted up his ass.





As Rock Chuck already said, you are free to use federal land but if you want to hunt or fish, you need to buy a license from the state you're in because the people of that state own the fish and game, and the people of that state get to set the fees. It's the same in every state pete, every state in the union sets higher fees for non-residents than residents. I believe you live in Minnesota but if not, just substitute in your state of residence, read what's below, and refute it if you can:

If people from all over the country wanted to come to (fill in the blank) to hunt whitetails and were willing to buy up all the tags for $500, (fill in the blank) would charge them $500. But people don't, so the non-resident fee is what it is, but it's always higher than the resident fee. Every state does that pete. If you do live in Minnesota, you have one thing going for you. You're right next to Wisconsin, so you should be able to find some inexpensive cheese to go with your whine.

And your question about whether I just want to see the rich hunting is an emotion-based red herring. Hunting licenses are affordable for residents of every state, and most people hunt close to home, especially beginners. Nice try though, class warfare always tugs at the heart strings. Hunting in someone else's state and taking someone else's big game is a privilege, not a right. What you believe you should pay for that privilege is irrelevant.

Once again pete, every state in the union charges higher fees to hunt and fish for non-residents than residents, which is as it should be. Your argument reminds me of an old joke that goes like this--A man walks into a bar and strikes up a conversation with a beautiful woman. He lets it slip that he's a multi-millionaire and asks her if she'd sleep with him for $1 million. She's offended at first, then she thinks about it and says yes. Then he says "How about $100?" Then she gets really offended and says "what do you think I am, a common whore?" To which he replies "we've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price."

The point being, if people from all over the country wanted to come to your state to hunt whitetails and were willing to pay $500 for the privilege, that's what your state would charge. It's just haggling over the price.

smokey, states i believe have made an agreement 10 % or more of drawn licenses should be sold to non-residents and yes non-resident fees should be more but not 20-30 times as much as a resident license that`s just outrageous.also the Federal land in each state gets plenty Federal money and money grants for Federal land and that`s is American tax money from the blue color workers. i will say this at least Colorado allows handi - cap people to use a x-bow and that was great for some of us. my problem is i know a area in Montana better than the residents do and know how to tag a elk in bow season its just my shoulders are very bad even with surgery on both of them and at 68 years of age its hard to go learn a new area or a new state.

When you can't even spell fair or punctuate and capitalize a sentence I'm sure a lot in life doesn't seem fair.

Says the guy who came over to LRH looking for a Lawyer to sue Montana for " easy" money how did that work out for you ( Twolf) Pete53.
I guarantee you my shoulders are no better than yours but I manage to still get out there find a way instead of wanting to sue Montana just to get Peter. You have 46 other states to hunt what a fugging JOKE!!
You really wanna see disabled come around and ill let my wife show you disabled in her special education school then cry everbody a river.

Pete, did you see this?





One last thing pete. As far as crossbows in Montana, I believe the people of Montana are the ones who get to make that call, and as a non-resident I have no say in the matter.

If I don't like their regulations, my options are to 1) get over it; 2) hunt the rifle season; or 3) hunt somewhere else. The one option that I don't have is to insist that the people of Montana change their regulations to suit me.

Since you are so adamant re the Feds making decisions on Federal land with regards to hunting license costs and weapons that should be allowed. Let us take it further. The Feds are pushing Electric Vehicles...Should the feds be allowed to mandate to the State, that all hunters on Federal land only use EV's on designated roads open to travel?

Should they set the hours that hunting is permitted? The season length???? Should they, should they?????

How much more power are you willing to give to the Feds....because you happen to have a couple bad shoulders and don't think something is fair? Especially when there are already other options that allow you to participate.

yep you boys are very funny and selfish but continue on in the dark.

No pete, you're the one being selfish.

You want the state of Montana to change its rules to suit your own personal situation and you don't even live there.

Grow up.

Maybe they should open those wilderness areas up to 4 wheelers since some guys are too old or crippled or out of shape to hike in or ride a horse.

Would it surprise anyone if I told you I've known more than one "bowhunter " with no physical impairments who told me they had a friend who was a doctor that would write the letter for them?

Maybe that's why Montana said no to crossbows.

Wouldn’t surprise me a bit. In fact back when OK required a Dr note for Xbow permits I knew several guys who had one due to a “bad back”. 😉

Maybe the Mt people who make the rules are like me and don’t think modern crossbows are archery.

I don’t know but I do know that hollering “I’m gonna tell my mom”, to get the federal government involved is about the last thing anybody needs. Think of all the things the government has fuuckked up, yep pretty much everything they’ve ever been involved with, and you want to include our favorite pastime in that mess? You need your head examined.

Just me- I'd like to see a "hunting season "
for my state. Use whatever you want as
long as you can make a clean kill and
recover your game. Too many not going and
looking for their animal if it doesn't fly off
it's feet at the shot.
To me it's about like when bass fishing was
the big fad here, and all these yuppies would
boo hoo to see us putting legal bass in the
cooler to clean and eat later
Hunt your own hunt and let me hunt mine