Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The legendary .378 Wby recoil

So, from a post up in the Hunter's Campfire............... Field & Stream's 10 most underrated cartridges.............


I've read all my life just how vicious the recoil of the .378 Roy is. Never had the opportunity to shoot one. My .375 Wby is built on an (gasp !!) A-Bolt Stainless Stalker and it's right around 8.5 pounds scoped and loaded. I shoot a 250 grain handload at 3060 fps.

For those of you who HAVE shot one............. How much more vicious is a .378 going to be than what I'm shooting ?? Really ??? The math and physics doesn't add up to a huge, big difference.

Just curious.

Yoder409,

That bit you copied is from funny man Petzal, right ?
He is exaggerating.
Comedy.

You are exactly right, physics does not lie.
You have run the numbers, believe them.

I was surprised that the couple of .378 Weatherbys I have shot were so gentle.
My current one is a CZ 550 Magnum with factory .375 H&H barrel that was re-chambered to .378 WbyMag.
25" barrel, boltface opened up and feed ramp and rails slicked up.
Bare rifle is 9.5 pounds, unloaded, iron sights only.
Old favorite loads with antique bullets for target practice:

111.0 grains of IMR-7828 with old Sierra 300-gr GameKing: 2900 fps MV, 0.64 MOA for 3 shots at 100 yards.
116.0 grains of Reloder-25 with old 300-gr X-Bullet: 3000 fps MV, just under 1" for 3 shots at 100 yards.

In 1998 I fired some of the old Weatherby factory loads for .378 WbyMag, yellow box with the Bengal tiger on it.
It was in a BRNO ZKK-602 that had also been re-chambered from .375 H&H to .378 WbyMag, but barrel was only 22" long.
Temperature was 85*F.
Bullet was 300-gr FMJ RN, looked like Hornady bullets were being used in the factory ammo.
MV was 2868 fps.
Adding 4" of barrel might have gotten it close to the claimed 3000 fps.
In my 22" rifle it cratered the primers and caused sticky bolt lift.
Had a hell of a muzzle blast with the short barrel.
It quickly got re-barreled to .500 A-Square.

I switched to .375 Weatherby after that,
not due to recoil, just due to the sensibilty and practicality factors.
And one of my .375 Weatherby Magnum rifles is still, after all these years, the most accurate hunting rifle I have ever fired.
I have three of the .375 WbyMag, two of the .375 Ruger, one .375 H&H and one .378 WbyMag rifle
hanging out in the safe.

I honestly just C&P'ed from the post. I don't believe the article was credited to anyone. But I had read the same sort of stuff over the years from various writers (I believe O'Connor was one of them) and wondered to myself what it was supposed to be that made the .378 so magically hateful to shoot.

Appreciate your very thorough reply !!! Thank you, sir.

Bought a Mark V in 1987 at Carter Country Sports in Houston for 800 bucks, the guy had me take it out back to their range to fire it to make sure i knew what i was about to get my young self into, my right thumb popped my nose pretty well, i came back in with a smile and said i'll take it.

It had already been tapped 8-40 screws, guy mounted dual dovetail bases and rings, a gloss 2-7 Leupold lived on that rifle till i shot the barrel out, great rifle i loaded 235 speers, 270 hornadys, 300gr Sierra, Hornady and partitions, great round, have a bud after more race car parts, he has a 340, 378 and a monster 460, all with brass, dies and powder, a damn big Mark V may be falling in my lap again, recoil isnt bad at all, although recoil velocity is very fast, as is muzzle blast, that may be where some of the concern with the round comes from.

I think it’s reputation as a heavy kicker developed around the relatively lightweight Weatherby rifle that was made in Japan. It had a really light barrel.

I agree. The Weatherby rifles of that time frame has caused a lot of people being ‘scared’ of certain cartridges, even the 300 Weatherby. Get those cartridges in a heavier rifle and the recoil is much more manageable.
A friend who shoots 416 Remington thinks the 300 Weatherby to be hurtful. But he’s only shot that cartridge in the pencil thin barreled Weatherby rifle.

I found this thread extremely interesting as it provided real world data on MVs. I have no experience with the 378 Weatherby, but have shot both the 375 Ruger and the 375H&H quite extensively.

For one of my trips to Africa a couple of years ago, I developed loads with the 250 grain TTSX at 2950 FPS MV in a Win M-70 Transitional model with a 25" barrel. It is a very comfortable load to shoot in a 9 3/4 lb rifle at that MV. It may not be quite up to 378 Wby MVs, but close enough to understand that the Wby is not the monster its been made out to be.

Putting this out there with the requisite disclaimer that it may not be safe in any other rifle than mine....................

Browning A-Bolt Stainless Stalker .375 Wby (converted from .375 H&H)
26" barrel (Manson chamber/freebore dimensions)
factory Weatherby (Norma) brass
Federal 210M
92.0 grains H-414
Sierra 250 grain SGK
3060 fps
1.4" for 5 shots @100 yards.

Absolutely ZERO pressure issues. Some of these brass I used to develop and test this load have been loaded 8-10-12 times and are still spec with tight primer pockets.

This is more likely the fact of it.
I once heard that the Weatherby Distributor in Australia had received a cancelled order for a .378 barrel in Number 4 contour, which is the same as the .460, so I rang Bill NIoa and told him I'd take it, to be told it was already sold so there are people out there who know......

I shot Mike McGuier's over the bench at a time when I had a couple of Weatherby 416's and a .460 and the .378 was definitely the more unpleasant of the lot but it was fast with the best load shooting 300gn Swift A-Frames at 3006fps. That's moving compared to the standard .375 H&H.

I have shot factory 300 gr loads in an old light mark 5 . it had a lot of muzzle rise and recoil was passed my limit of good shooting. I knew a small minded kid back in the day that owned a 378 built on a Brevex mauser. It was in a maple stock and had sharp edges all over. rear of trigger guard, cheek piece bolt handle were all designed with a 243 in mind, not a 378... and a barely 13" length of pull. I bet that gun drew blood regularly. On the shooter.

Good to see AussieGunWriter back in the saddle.
John,
If a highjack is not begrudged,
what was your favorite load for the .460 Weatherby Magnum with 400-gr X-Bullet ?

The 404-gr Shock Hammer needs some loads for those who poo-poo a mere 2500 fps.

Yes, AGW has been gone too long, and not to sound completely vaginal, but, if a mighty 378 lands in my lap, i'll use 97gr IMR-4350 under some 300gr partitions for an easy 2700+ fps, all game to 400 yards would have immediate appointments with the butchers blade ; ]

my 338 Lapua would be nasty if it was not ported as would a 378 WBY. mag. off the bench sitting down. but i feel i have one gun worse its my Savage 220 20 gauge with a 260 grain slug that gun is light and has nasty recoil off the bench even my my 458 Lott is milder on recoil . try a Savage 220 you will know what i mean !

Ron,
I had 2 loads that generated uniform velocites in the .460 with more than a single powder so there is flexibility.
My accuracy load was 110gn AR2208/VARGET which was also replicated using IMR4064 for 2750fps. I gained over 5 feet penetration using the 400gn Barnes X bullet with 293grains retention. I sent both you and Barnes a target for 5 shots at just over .6MOA at 100 yards.

Top velocity used 116gn AR2208/VARGET (Both in Oz and the US separately) and duplicated again with IMR 4064 for 2900fps.
For a mild option using the 400gn Speer, I loaded 40gn Blue Dot (no filler) seated to the top cannelure for1720fps, 58gn of 2400 for 2120fps (again, no filler) and 100gn IMR4064 for an even 2500fps which was too hot for that bullet with its paper thin jacket and many turned into a blue puff of smoke on their way to the 100 yard targets off the bench. Regarding that 2400 load, I had another load of 57 grains which generated 2040fps and reduced the bullet disintegration a bit more so that is also worth trying and these loads all used the Federal 215 primer.

Now if you used a tougher bullet...........

Also tried the 400 grain Woodleigh which commenced the cleaning process before you got there but killed rather emphatically deer sized game.

Haven't been away from the 'fire, as I look at it most days on my phone, but there is a lot of genuine knowledge on here so I only post when I have something to say that fills a gap in the commentary.
John
PS: Gunner is worth his weight in Powder for his contributions so there is much for all to observe and learn from. Wish Mike would post more as I shot beside him for years and know the wealth of experience he is.

Back to .378 recoil..........Mike told me when he spoke with Roy Weatherby, he had nicknamed the cartridge "The Stallion".

AGW,
Thanks for that re-cap.
Swift got top results with over 130 grains of compressed H4350 behind their 400-gr A-Frame.
I like your Varget loads, probably be even better with the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
Back in the dark ages when I floundered with a .458/.338 LM and heavier bullets I was using RL-15.
Nowadays I replace all my RL-15 loads with Varget, grain for grain and go onward from there.
CHARGE !

Ron,
I never tried the 400gn Swift but did develop loads for the 500gn which shot to the same point as the 500gn Hornady, helpful in conserving the more expensive A-Frames. My best load was 123gn of IMR4350 for a velocity average of 2678fps not corrected to muzzle velocity, so its pretty close to factory claims of 2700fps for that bullet weight.

I also did use Reloder 15 but only with the 500 grainers, nothing lighter which is probably a better match.

For those with hairy chests who want every one of the 8000FPE Weatherby claimed quite legitimately with the .460, I loaded the 600gn Barnes over 120gn of IMR4831 for 2453fps and 8019FPE and 116gn IMR4350 for 2460fps and 8064FPE, also not corrected to muzzle velocity.
John

The rarity, expense, and reputation of the .378 Weatherby has worked in my favor twice this year. I "adopted" two .378 Weatherby strays in our local market that were unwanted and followed me home. Only the rifle that is used and has a brake saw any use this summer. The brand new DGR version is still in a case and unfired.

The muzzle blast is far more significant than the recoil. I am not a big man so cannot take too much abuse...and this rifle is no bruiser to shoot from the bench. By same token it is no prairie dog pea-shooter. It is my intention to use it for hunting bears on Kodiak next spring. I suspect that the blast or recoil along with the expense of shooting these cartridges is what makes them less common. As well the improvements in bullet design/construction/materials change the utility of classic cartridges in comparison to the newer ones. I've been doing some hunting with a 300 Weatherby and am able to punch a hole through the skull (frontally) of a moose and into the neck with a TTSX bullet and I'm fairly certain that a bear would not fare any better. Even so, I'm bringing the bigger Weatherby to the Rock (Kodiak) in case a perfect frontal shot does not present itself. If the bullet doesn't kill it then the blast will befuddle him!

I'll do some load development this winter and share up the load data. My bullet candidates will be the 300grain Partition/Accubonds and the 270grain LRX from Barnes. Don't hesitate to go shoot a .378 Weatherby--If I can do it then so can you!

Bob

I would bet the 270 gr LRX out of the 378 Wby at 2900-3000 fps would perform well, near or far.

I have fired them on several occasions and never liked any of them. But the amount of recoil is not a lot more then some of the 416s on the market. Some 458s kick even harder. A lot depends on weight and the kick you feel is depends also on stock fit. I think the aspect that is also disagreeable is the speed of the kick.

The stock shape of the Weatherby Mk5 is either loved or hated. I can't get along with them. If I shoulder one comfortable with my eyes closed and then open them I find I am looking at the back of the bolt and I have to raise my head a lot to get behind the scope or even iron sights.

I made a stock for a customer years ago on a Weatherby action in 378, and did the stock in an American Classic style. He was very tall and I am not. So it still didn't fit me well but it was not as nasty as the ones I have fired with the factory stocks. I had the comb line set to bring the eye in line with the scope and the kick was more controllable and less panful. So overall I would say that if you have one with a stock that fits you and a stock designed from the "blue print" for the large size pads, they are not all that bad.

When I make a stock for a rifle that kicks I take the measurements from the customer for LOP, drop at comb, crop at heel and cast off. To come up with the drop at toe I take the largest pad I can get and lay it on the line drawing at the top of the line drawn for the comb at the intersection of the length of pull. I trace on the pad and draw in the toe line back to the pistol grip. That drawing gets cut out and glued to the stock blank. I saw it out and build the stock to those dimensions so when its done I need only off-set the pad for cast off and attach it. I then cut the butt to fit the pad instead of attaching a pad to fit an existing size butt-stock. With a perfect fit to the owner, rifles up to the 505 Gibbs are not usually too hard for them to handle. Same with the 378 and 460 Weatherbys.

I am of the opinion that the mistake the manufacturers make is to have the same size butt stock on all their rifle in the most powerful cartridges as they do on their smaller deer cartridges. Stocking a 458 or 460 exactly as you do a 243 makes no since to me. But the factories don't have different patterns to cut out stocks for big calibers and regular calibers.

They should.............but they don't.