Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting new to forum and have a question

Hi,As the title sayz,i am a new member and have a question,I recently purchased a savage 12fv in .308.I havent got to shoot it much.It is fluted and bedded and everything has been done to it to make it accurate,The trigger needs work though.It has a 26 inch bbl.What is the maximum range i can shoot a whitetail deer with this gun?using hornadys light magnum ammo,or do u have a certain factory load u recommend?And i just purchased a video from cabelas called the one mile shot,the guy is shooting targets well over a mile away(i have to wait for it to get here)and a book titled precision shooting at 1000 yards.I know some people disagree with this but what caliber is needed to shoot a whitetail deer at 1000yds?I have a .338 win mag.I have read alot about ppl using the .300 mag.Would that work for shooting deer at that range?With the .338 win mag i shot a deer at 500yds and it dropped in its tracks,sort of,It flipped but did not run anywhere.it was zeroed at 100yds and i was using winchester ballistic silvertip bullets and held the crosshairs at the deers back.g2g
thanks
Levi

I my opinion, and I am one of those that "disagree", shooting deer in excess of 300 yards is a bit dicey. How often do you find a deer standing still, broadside, with predictable wind, and a rock solid rest. Maybe you have these factors covered where you hunt but I have seen gut shot deer at 200 yard due to the hunter not factoring in the deers slow walk. Movement, yours or the deers, can have a dramatic impact on target at 200 plus yards.

I'll help as best I can.


The maximum range you can shoot a deer with a 308 Win is determined by the shooter in most cases...the 308 Win has the potential to kill deer out to 700 or 800 yards fairly easily, problem is the shooter. The shooter must know many things or be damn lucky, external ballistics and bullet selection are key items...helps to know a good deal about wind and a fair bit about deer habits, habitat and anatomy.

This has all been discussed MANY times and it has a way of bringing out the nay-sayers whenever the topic comes up.

Learn a good deal about trajectories...out to about 500 yards most rifles are fairly easily classified, flat shooters, medium shooters and the rainbow trajectory category. Flat shooters are the 257 Weatherby, 7mm RUM and 7 MM Magnum (depending on bullet selection), 264 Win Mag and the like. Medium shooters are most often the non magnums, 30-06, 308 Win, 270 Win and the like but include the 338 Win and 375 H&H. Rainbow are the 30-30, 45-70, but could include the 308 Win with those big round 200s.

The load you need is to be determined by the rifle, you should only accept loads that shoot to less than 1 MOA, this will in theory give you a 5 INCH group at 500 yards....I (and I believe many shooters) allow an additional 1 MOA for shooter error so we have a total error of 2 MOA (~10 inches at 500 yards). If you can get a load to shoot consistently at .5 MOA then you're blessed with a 1.5 MOA error and a group of ~7.5 inches and can possibly move out beyond 500 yards a bit.

High Energy loads are not needed, consistent loads ARE REQUIRED. You must be able to accurately predict where the round will hit and a well placed round is much better than a poorly placed higher energy round (in most cases).

You should have a mechanism to accurately determine the distance to the critter, premeasured plot, LASER rangefinder, ranging reticle and a calibrated deer (known size deer...deer sizes are regional). Once you know the distance to the deer you must be able to either adjust the scope to that distance or have a known holdover point...no guessing... For instance...500 yards with a 100 yards zero using a 308 Win and 175 grain Match bulets amounts to about 11 MOA of come-up adjustment (at altitudes to about 3,000 ft and temps about 60 degrees). This 11 MOA of correction equates to 55 inches of "hold-over", nearly the same value is required for a 338 Win, perhaps a smidgen less.

You'll need a good stable shooting position, I use a Harris bipod and a small sock filled with sand to steady the rear of the rifle. Off-hand is probably not the preferred method...I'd suspect you'll need to determine what position works best via trial and error (on targets while getting trajectory and group data).

Once you have things fairly well figured out you CANNOT CHANGE ANYTHING RELATING TO THE RIFLE COMPONENTS, BEDDING OR AMMUNITION without completing a zero and trajectory verification process. This include changing ammunition even by as little as a manufacturer's LOT number.

A 300 Win Mag will kill deer further than a 308 Win (given the same conditions and qualified shooter but the distance you'll gain is not that great...stick with the 308 Win as it'll last longer and you won't get beat up learning.

The 1 Mile Shot will be interesting to watch...you won't be shooting deer at 1 mile even with the aid of this video. It may provide some tips on marksmanship that will be valuable.

Good Luck

Wind is fairly easy...don't shoot in strong side-to-side wind (9:00 or 3:00 position...called full value winds) unless you need to . A 10 mph full value wind will blow a 308 175 grain match bullet about 4 MOA at 500 yards (20 inches or so). Best to shoot in low wind or when the wind is from the 12:00 or 6:00 positions.


You were very luck to have killed that deer at 500 yards with the little bit of holdover you recall. From the center of a deer's chest to top of a deer's chest is about 6 to 8 inches... A 338 Win mag bullet drops something on the order of 45 inches from 100 to 500 yards, you should have shot under it by about 30 inches.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dave,



If the question wasn't an obvious troll, then it is the perfect example of why many folks disagree with long range shooting. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

At least some are willing to try and educate others. I don't shoot LR and never have, but those that can get my admiration. I know my limits and stay within them, that is the best lesson of all.

Troll or not, I agree with Dave, the shooter is the week point in long range shooting. I have seen guys on numerous occassions miss 200 yard targets while shooting the BEST weaponry money can buy. They still blame the gun, wind, ammo, scope, etc. Most calibers will easily kill deer beyond 500 yards, but very few individuals are capable of such range.

I ran into a guy last year that pointed to a ridge and said, "I killed a 6x6 bull elk on top of that ridge last year running. He was over 900 yards away. I sure was glad to have been shooting my .338 Win mag, because nothing else would have knocked him down. My .338 shoots so flat, I didn't even have to hold over his back. I just put the cross hairs right on him and shot him. I hit him 4 times before he finally went down. He was a big boy and nothing would have killed him, but my .338!" Oh, and did I mention it was off hand, in a stiff wind, cross canyon? I couldn't get away from him fast enough. Flinch

I couldn't agree more, the shooter is still the weak link.
The best equipment in the world don't mean squat if the nut behind the trigger can't use it properly.

Well written Dave. E

Say Flinch,



Did your 'buddy' have a fluted barrel too? Cause we all know how that helps with long range shooting! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"With the .338 win mag i shot a deer at 500yds and it dropped in its tracks,sort of,It flipped but did not run anywhere.it was zeroed at 100yds and i was using winchester ballistic silvertip bullets and held the crosshairs at the deers back.g2g"

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The drop of a 200 gr. 338 bullet at 500 yd. from a 100 yd. zero is approx. 55 inches. Could you explain this miracle shot a little further??

JimF

the actual range was probably less than 330 yards. With the load and aimpoint stated, a range of over 360 yards or so would miss completely.

MM

Sry, I ment to say it was zeroed 2inches high at 100 yards

308owner

2 inches high at 100 yards corrects your 500 yard 45 inch trajectory deficit by about 10 inches...now you're about 35 inches low overall and still about 20 inches below the deer's chest...

Here's a correct method... trajectory error in inches/yardage in hundreds of yards = sight correction.

error of 45 inches / 5 hundred yards = 9 inches (we'll call it MOA) of correction required You added (came up) 2 inches (we'll call it MOA) and changed the averall error to 7 MOA...7 (MOA) x 5 (hundred yards) = 35 (inches) error remaining


MOA = Minute of angle


Understanding this concept is a fundamental requirement of responsible long range shooting/hunting.

308 Owner,

While I respect your long range hunting decision, I must admit that, for me, a long range shot is 250-300yds, and that is with "perfect" conditions- rarely a serious proposition, since I do not want to risk a gut shot deer, nor tracking a wounded deer for miles . The latter happened once, I searched for 2 hours only to lose it to another hunter- don't like to know an animal is needlessly suffering because of my poor decision. I decided to hone my stalking skills, and feel that for my efforts, I have become a better and more ethical hunter, at closer and more "controlable" ranges.

All the Long Range Hunters on this board know their rifles and their abilities well. All of them know how far they can relibly hit a big game animal, and avoid losses. An excellent philosophy for all of us to follow. No shooting at ranges and under conditions where you haven't practiced to a high degree of confidence. E

i applaud those that can regularly hit a soda can off a fence post at close to a mile.
no flame intended but that is about what it amounts to. i know some of you guys can do it. 98% cant.
woofer

I don't like liers!!!!! I don"t like people like U blowin smoke up my ass!!! When you have a real question...Post it
We may be somewhat anonymous on the board but ...The bulk of the shooters here don't have to lie... to be accepted!!!
You can PM me any time if the gloves wanna come off!!! These Gentlemen will help with what ever deficencies you have with your Shootin!!!
You need to find out if you have any!!! GRIN!!! Later FN-FAN...one shot one kill... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Item missing from the formulas to figure "come ups" from a 100 yd zero is the formula to figure range for up & down hill. My guess is that if the hold was on the animals back at 500 yds the up (or down) hill angle was some where around 40 degrees (500 yds x cosine of angle [0.77] equals 365yds). Now lets figure the wind, C = range\100 x wind velocity divide this answer by 15
C=minutes & 15 is generally accepted constant for 7.62 \.308
Lots of math to do on a running deer.
As for the last post before this one:FN-FAN don't jump to conclusions, there are those that can hit at distance. come out to Gillette wy next year & join us. I assure you that you will meet many that shoot to 1000 yds & beyond & hit regulary at sub-minute targets. & yes my name got added to those that have hit the steel at 1800 yds.