Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles Resizing without the expander ball

I got a question from a friend of mine that I can’t answer so I’m looking for help.

He’s asking about FL resizing without the expander ball to avoid working the brass too much but he doesn’t have a neck sizer die. Can he FL resize without the ball and expect proper neck tension? What kind of trouble can he get in without some form of neck treatment?





P

There's a misunderstanding of the fundamental problem. Excessive working of the brass comes from the neck section of the die being much tighter than necessary to properly hold a bullet.

i alway s use a expander ball on my Redding dies if your worried about brass candle anneal the brass 1st . i anneal about every 4th time with my target brass but with my hunting 257 Weatherby mag. brass every 2 or 3 times . Mathman is right you have a misunderstanding.

Once is a great while a standard expander-ball sizing will be of the correct dimensions to ONLY size the neck down just enough to result in straight ammo, without using the expander. This depends on the brass, of course--but has only happened to me twice in a few decades of handloading....

With virtually all standard dies, the simple answer No; neck tension will be higher than normal without the sizing ball. Might still be "OK", akin to a hard crimp, but IMO, too much pressure rise to be safe, but i have no data to support that.

And not all brass & dies will yield the same tension, but that happens with the sizing ball in place too,

If he's intent on doing it, he really needs a body die (which does not size the neck down) & a collet neck sizing die.

Or buy a single bushing die with several bushings.

MM

Just buy a bushing die.

John, when sizing without the expander ball in place we will probably have a neck inside diameter too small. I’ve seen your recommendation on the proper way to then “push size” the neck with the ball replaced. It’s simple and I believe I’ve done it correctly, but would you mind rerunning the setup and process one more time. This time I’ll print it and tape it to my bench. Thanks.

Tag

That and lack of annealing.

I do not use expanders. I do use mandrels.

At least with precision ammo, the goal is to reduce variables to ensure the most consistent neck tension across all loaded rounds. This is accomplished most fundamentally by turning necks and annealing.

And where do you draw the line for turning. or not turning necks?

Hunting rifles?
Precision hunting rifles? (Whatever that term means)
Precision target rifles?

What % of ammo that you load has the necks turned?

MM

One of the best things I bought L.E. Wilson Expanding Mandrel Die

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023478435

I tried this with my 35 Whelen as the neck tension wasn't enough to hold the bullets. They would be pushed down the neck in the rifle's magazine box under recoil or wiggle free when bouncing around on the back of the motor bike. I just replaced the whole spindle with that from my .25-06 die as they were the same brand (Redding). It seemed like a good idea but I wasn't really happy with it. Because the neck was a bit narrow the bullets would seat a bit not centred in the neck. I mean they were not in the centre of the case neck but a bit out to one side. I could see with the naked eye that the brass on one side of the neck had been pushed out by the bullet's base but the other side hadn't. Groups were a bit bigger than normal too. In the end I bought a Lee Factory Crimp die for $30 and issue solved.

This^^^

Seems to me at his level of understanding just go with a Lee Collet die.

I'm also a fan of using an expander mandrels to get the proper tension without overworking.

For a couple of my rifles I just use a neck bushing, without expanding.

It isn't the expander ball or expander mandrel that controls whether or not the case neck gets overworked. That is determined by how much it gets sized down compared to how much sizing down it needs to properly hold a bullet.

I"ve neck sized 6.5 PRC brass with my 6.5CM Lee collet neck sizing die, with a minor mod and adjustment. Works like a champ.

Well, yes, at least until he needs a body die..............if he shoots them enough to ever need one.

MM

With high quality brass, I don't get too concerned about neck wall thickness, even for my PRS rifles. I use Lapua in my 6.5 Creedmoor and 6BRA. I do check it and cull out any anomalies. With lesser quality brass for rifles that I expect to perform at extended ranges, I measure neck wall thickness and sort by degree of variation, culling the most extreme. I use and load much less of this sort of brass. I've skimmed necks, but am of the opinion that unless I turn inside and outside, I'm not really getting the most benefit for my efforts and, with quality brass, for my applications and volume, turning is more difficult to justify. With that said, I reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

I full length size with FL bushing dies and use expander mandrels. An exception is my 6BRA which I have a custom die for. I anneal after every firing.

There are many ways to do this and just as many reasons for doing them.

I FL size without expander buttons on almost every cal I load for. 30 years and no issues and my ammo is usually very straight. I do anneal after every third loading.