Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR most like the original AR?

I'm touchy because 8m being called out describing what I want, but not calling it the name someone likes.

With 6000 posts on the Campfire and you are being "touchy". You have been here for a while, right ? There is a lot of good information about AR's in this thread. All you can do is start looking around and maybe you can find what you want online somewhere but to make it your own you may have to build it yourself. It's not that difficult. The ARFCOM web sight (AR15.com) can be a bit intimidating but it's full of good information. You just have to sort through it. Get yourself a log in name and join the fun. It's almost as good as it is here. I said "almost".

kwg

What you want is an A2 National Match rifle which is considerably different from the original.

The biggest problem is folks started building “retro” rifles and the supply of A1 and A2 receivers dried up. That drove the cost of everything retro up.

It didn’t help any that the rules have changed on service rifles allowing flat tops and 4.5 power scopes in competition. So other than the retro market, there’s little need for anyone to tool up and build A1 or A2 receivers.

Add in the NM stuff is pretty expensive on its own and you’re just gonna have to pony up the money or change your plans.

TktO hat do you want because it sure as [bleep] not an ar15 air force issue rifle. The closest you could own would be is a z1964 sp1

I really have that many???

TWR, I think he wants a flat top (m4) without the carry handle. I posted some pics of different M4 uppers that he can buy, that would work great. Like I tried to tell him, all he would have to do is change the handguard out. I have also asked why he needs a freefloat handguard that looks like the original. I don't think he could answer that question, and I asked it a couple times. Now, from what I've seen it doesn't take a freefloat handguard to have an extremely accurate rifle. I have examples of 2 myself. One has a chrome lined barrel (also not real conducive to excellent accuracy) a 1 in 9" twist and the other a Colt with a lightweight chrome lined 1 in 7" twist barrel. Both rifles shoot very well with a non freefloat handguards. The last one I got from a buddy of mine, I should have left the damn thing alone, because I think it shot better with the non freefloat handguard vs. the freefloat handguard I put on it. I still haven't figured out why he wants to go with a traditional looking rifle, with the A2 front sight, when it's going to be scoped. That front sight is somewhat annoying when using a scope. I'd imagine he would put a flip up rear sight on it as well, so he can make use of the front sight. Speaking of such a rifle, I ran into a guy at the range this morning that was shooting pretty much what the OP is looking for. It had an A2 stock, old Olympic Arms lower, and Bushmaster 1 in 9" 20" HBAR with the A2 front sight. He said he pulled the original handguard off because he wanted a freefloat handguard, so he could add attachments and rails. It was a nice rifle, but shot like schidt. He had an ATN digital night vision scope on it. He said it was his coyote gun.. To each their own, I guess. Hell, here's another upper that the op could buy and it's a BCM:

BCM 20" GOVT. profile upper
Again, all he has to do is add the handguard he's looking for and find an A2 lower, or build the lower.

Non-floated ARs are very hold sensitive.

Is he going to be competing with it? How much deviation is it really? How much have you seen? You get all suited up and slung tight. I don't, so it's an honest question. It can't be any worse than the guys putting front sights on the handguard, or a flimsy handguard for that matter. That can really fu ck with accuracy. He still hasn't said why he wants a freefloating handguard. Unless he's been reading that they are absolutely necessary for precision. In which they are not. Especially for one that is not going to be used in full on competition. I know they used to use non freefloating handguards with lead in them. I actually shot one at my clubs AR shoots before I had my own. That rifle was used in Army competitions of some sort. I don't know the whole story on it, but it weighed 16 pounds. The OP may have got mad and left the building, but I am just curious about some of the reasons for his build. Like others have said, it's not going to resemble an original m16.

I went back and looked and totally misread the part of carry handle NOT needed. I guess I got stuck on original.

I've had a few, well more than a few non free floated hand guards on guns that would shoot. One Colt in particular was a solid 1 MOA shooter with it's non chrome lined 16" HBAR barrel. I just knew if I cut the front sight tower off and put on a free floating hand guard from Hogue (old school) that it would be a half minute shooter. After breaking the Colt upper because the barrel nut was well over 100ft. lbs. I got it swapped out and it was still a 1 MOA shooter.

Shooting one with a sling or adding pressure any other way and they will shift on you. Learning how to hold one to get decent accuracy isn't hard.

Thanks TWR. I know I misread stuff as well. Honest mistake that we all make from time to time. Hopefully the OP can find what he's looking for. Maybe post some pics of the finished project and let us know how it shoots.

IIRC, slung up - up to ~ 6 MOA. Otherwise, a minute or 2, getting worse as the barrel warms up. Put some pressure on the stock like with a bipod from prone, somewhere in between.

I don't shoot unfloated ARs any more.

I don't need a free floated forend, just thought it was accurate.
I don't need a front sight.
I don't need a forward assist.
I don't need the dust cover.
A machined in scope rail is good to have.
No competition.
I guess I just want the original looking stock and forearm.

How do you attach a bipod to an A2 style handguard? That may be causing the issue. I use a front rest and have no issues, but again I'm not using a sling.



Again, the OP is not really giving us much info on how he's going to be shooting his or the need for a freefloating handguard. Is it just going to be a range toy, or is he going to be in a straight jacket and slung up tight with a cute glove on and that kind of schidt? Also to TWR. I know when he says "1 moa" he's not talking about 3 shots. More like this:


I'll verify at 100 yards, with 10 shot groups, then play around at the 400 yard range:

In that case, any A3/A4 style you find will be good enough.

Forget eliminating the forward assist and dust cover. They come standard, and getting one without those is more problem than it's worth.

I said "like" a bipod. That can be any object that applies upward pressure to the barrel. "Like" a log.
And again, you aren't shooting from anything but a bench. If you were shooting prone or sitting or kneeling or standing or reverse kneeling ( ), you might find that head pressure makes a difference.

I’d suggest looking at Palmetto State Armory and finding a Lower with the A2 stock on it and searching their uppers to see what you like.

I’d suggest that the barrel is the most important part of the accuracy equation. I’m guessing you want a 20” barrel but be careful on going too heavy. The original 20” A1 barrel was a pencil barrel and made a nice portable gun but the A2 govt profile added a little weight out front while still being portable. Be warned an HBAR profile or bull barrel will keep that gun regulated to a bench more often than not. Though these are gonna be the most accurate choice given the same quality barrel.

I’d suggest a free floated MLok rail over the original hand guards but you like what you like so that’s your choice.

Edit to add; they do make a free floated hand guard that looks just like the original round hand guard. They have a tube in the center, are heavy and expensive and just won’t look right without a front sight tower.

Go to this page and start reading. Some of those uppers have no forward assist and any upper can be assembled without a dust cover door. Go to the next page and look over the uppers and pick out one you like.
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=ar15%20upper

Since you mentioned left handed
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=92

Brownells Retro Rifle – BRN-601 is as close to the original "AR-15" as you can get. The USAF had AR-15s before the M-16.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/brownells-retro-rifles-an-overview-with-roy-hill/

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=92

Cha-Ching!