Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR most like the original AR?

Who makes a decent, accurate, semi version of an original military looking AR?
A few lefty friendly options would be ok, safety, etc. An original looking hand guard, but floating. An Original butt stock, not some folding, collapsing thing. Carry handle not needed.

Brownell's does old-school AR's.

https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/bapid=615/ClientPage/brownells-601

https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/bapid=616/ClientPage/brownells-16e1

https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/bapid=617/ClientPage/brownells-16a1

I hear Palmetto State Armory is going to be marketing an A1 as well in the near future.

For a lefty, I'd look at stag. Montana marine listed some good ones. Windham also makes the A2 retro (Actually called the M4A4 20" Gov't Rifle), as does Aero precision (m16A4 special edition). They use the detachable carry handle. You could always get a left hand receiver and swap with either of those upper receivers, if you wanted to do more than just the safety.
As for the handguard, you're probably not going to find a freefloating handguard specimen that looks like the originials. Sometimes freefloating handguards can be overrated as well. I've seen many of the old ones shoot lights out with the original handguards. Is there a reason it needs to be freefloating? A left handed A2 would be bad azzed. However, not necessary for a left handed shooter. I also hear you about the collapsible thing they call a stock. Not my cup of tea either. A1 and A2 look much better and work just fine.

WOA has the free float tube A2 handguards.

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/handguard-set-modified.html

https://www.whiteoakarmament.com/service-rifle-float-tube-assembly.html

Brownells BRN-601 is like the AR-15 the USAF had before there was a M-16.

I'm not looking for a carry handle.

So you want a triangle hand guard, non collapsible buttstock and the early contour barrel. All my uppers have the brass deflector but it would still make for a light rifle that with a 1-12 twist could sling just about any of the old soft point bullets at coyotes. There are even deer bullets suitable for 1-12 out there.

Does anyone make an honest A2 AR? All the versions I see that are listed as A2 models have removable hand guards. The GI issue A2 did not.

I've noted the same.

Managed to find a DPMS A2 upper receiver on Midway a few years back and put together a Dissipator.




But it seems nobody is making a real A2 upper, or even selling the upper receiver any more. I heard some chatter about PSA offering retro upper receiver at some point, but it's not happening yet.

DPMS "Panther" is a very nice 60's era style rifle.

PSA has an “A2”, but I believe it has the removable carrying handle.

Yep.

If you aren’t looking for a fixed carry handle, you aren’t looking for a retro gun. Both the A1 and A2 have a fixed carry handle and non-free float removable hand guards.

M-16A2 and A3 have the fixed carry handle sights, M-16A4 has the picatinny rail (flattop removable carry handle).

BCM has a good page describing the different variations.
https://bravocompanyusa.com/blog/m16-rifle-general-information-m16-m16a1-m16a2-m16a3-m16a4/

As to what each manufacturer calls their AR15s, well, you are on your own.

Non-removable hand guards? WTF? Got a pic?

Tony

I think he is thinking of the A4. The replacement for the A2. Also, the Designated Marksman Rifle has a free float hand guard. IN the A2 style the National Match rifles had a free float hand guard. The link shows the free float sleeve. Just scroll down.

free float sleeve and hand guard

Lol think he might have meant carry handle??

Sounds like I'll have to buy it in pieces and assemble.
Yes, removable carry handle, preferably none at all.
Mil spec style butt stock.
Mil spec looking hand guard, free float. (Is there a down side to the free float?)
20" barrel (is it needed to get all the fps out of 5.56 ammo?)
Ambi safety.
Don't really need a forward assist (I hope).
I don't really need to carry a cleaning kit in the butt stock either.

An ‘original military looking AR’:

1. Will have a fixed carry handle, not a removable handle/flattop.
2. It won’t have a free float handguard.
3. It won’t have an ambi safety.
4. It will have a forward assist.
5. It will likely carry a cleaning kit in the stock of a ‘mil spec’ buttstock (if it’s an A2).

Your specs are literally the opposite of a ‘original’ (by that most assume you mean A1 or maybe A2) AR. If you are deviating this far from originality, why not just get a modern gun that fits your needs?

I have carried these in service. I know it is not the same. I am asking for one with the outward appearance, excepting the carry handle and other parts.
I want the solid butt stock, the triangular hand guard's, matte black.
I don't want some stupid folding, erector set butt stock.
I don't want a forearm that looks like manufactured bee habitat.
I do want to mount a scope on a rail
I do want to put it from safe to fire, and back again, without it being a two hand affair.
Is that a clear enough description, without knowing all the "correct" terms, nomenclature, model names?
As far as I am concerned, they are all AR's, M15's, copies of service rifles.
When I describe my Marlin lever action, I don't go 8nto some wided breakdown based on configuration. It is my Marlin lever 30-30.
I'd like an AR, 5.56, as I described. Nit picking internet correction police aside.

You need to check out the link I posted.
You'll have to buy an A3/A4 (flattop) with round handguards and replace them with the triangles you want.

thats the joy. Build em like you want em.

Love the erector butt stocks for hunting guns. So easy to change length of pull for different shooters.

Get the parts and put it together.

The other option would be to buy the tools and buy the parts you want. Go to AR15.com and they have a beginner section and a builder section. There are places that sell the new version of the triangle hand guard. To get an original pair without any broken teeth could be pricey. The skinny barrel with the front sight tower can be found. This is the 20" with the 1/7 twist. The original is a 1/12 twist.

https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts...s/ar-15-20-a1-rifle-barrel-1-7-assembly/
here is the 1/12 twist
https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts.../ar-15-20-a1-rifle-barrel-1-12-assembly/

Which twist is best for varmint hunting bullets?

I tried AR15.com
I was flooded with spam emails. I call them spam anyhow, very pernicious.

If you're talking about light, short bullets anything from 1-7 to 1-12 will work. The faster twists are for stabilizing long heavy bullets.

1-8 is a very common rate of twist found in AR barrels these days. Many bolt rifles still use the 1-12 twist. The original AR/M16 had a 1-12 twist.

You can look into Rock River Arms. They have the A4 sold without the carry handle in left or right hand.I have the Stag and it has the removable carry handle. I bought it to have an iron sight center fire to have fun with and never have any sort of optic on it. Lots of fun!

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=92

That RRA is a nice rifle and they have a 1 moa accuracy guarantee, if that matters. All the op would have to do is change the handguard out to his liking. I'd just shoot it as is, with the handguard shown, but that is just me.

Sounds like you got it figured out…

PSA does make A1 slickside and otherwise upper receivers with the fixed carry handles, but they're gone within 15 minutes whenever they drop them, and most end up on GunBroker at $300-500. They're under the H&R brand, I have a blem one that I got on my 4th try attempting to beat the scalpers. The blem was a slightly off center takedown pin hole, not enough to prevent use but just enough to be annoying.

Geez, that sounds expensive to me. Wonder how much a good receiver would cost?

If I was a guessing man, I'd say it'll probably be about 170 before shipping and tax once they iron out the issues which made the last couple batches blems. Mine came from the last batch and was $140, $168 once tax and shipping was taken care of.

Is there a down side to buying an 80% receiver and building from there? Will accuracy be the same, if a quality barrel and bolt are bought?
Using a right hand receiver isn't a big deal, so long as it has a brass deflector.

If I have somehow, at some time, in some way, managed to phrase a question in such a fashion as to get some ones knickers in a bunch, well...

Excuuuuse Me!

Huh???? What are you talking about?

I would not screw with an 80%. FWIW, YMMV

Your original post is very contradictory. As is the title, compared to what you seek. That is why you are getting some of this feedback.

Most guys here are trying to help him, but I don't think he gets it..

That's how it comes across.

I'm touchy because 8m being called out describing what I want, but not calling it the name someone likes.

With 6000 posts on the Campfire and you are being "touchy". You have been here for a while, right ? There is a lot of good information about AR's in this thread. All you can do is start looking around and maybe you can find what you want online somewhere but to make it your own you may have to build it yourself. It's not that difficult. The ARFCOM web sight (AR15.com) can be a bit intimidating but it's full of good information. You just have to sort through it. Get yourself a log in name and join the fun. It's almost as good as it is here. I said "almost".

kwg

What you want is an A2 National Match rifle which is considerably different from the original.

The biggest problem is folks started building “retro” rifles and the supply of A1 and A2 receivers dried up. That drove the cost of everything retro up.

It didn’t help any that the rules have changed on service rifles allowing flat tops and 4.5 power scopes in competition. So other than the retro market, there’s little need for anyone to tool up and build A1 or A2 receivers.

Add in the NM stuff is pretty expensive on its own and you’re just gonna have to pony up the money or change your plans.

TktO hat do you want because it sure as [bleep] not an ar15 air force issue rifle. The closest you could own would be is a z1964 sp1

I really have that many???

TWR, I think he wants a flat top (m4) without the carry handle. I posted some pics of different M4 uppers that he can buy, that would work great. Like I tried to tell him, all he would have to do is change the handguard out. I have also asked why he needs a freefloat handguard that looks like the original. I don't think he could answer that question, and I asked it a couple times. Now, from what I've seen it doesn't take a freefloat handguard to have an extremely accurate rifle. I have examples of 2 myself. One has a chrome lined barrel (also not real conducive to excellent accuracy) a 1 in 9" twist and the other a Colt with a lightweight chrome lined 1 in 7" twist barrel. Both rifles shoot very well with a non freefloat handguards. The last one I got from a buddy of mine, I should have left the damn thing alone, because I think it shot better with the non freefloat handguard vs. the freefloat handguard I put on it. I still haven't figured out why he wants to go with a traditional looking rifle, with the A2 front sight, when it's going to be scoped. That front sight is somewhat annoying when using a scope. I'd imagine he would put a flip up rear sight on it as well, so he can make use of the front sight. Speaking of such a rifle, I ran into a guy at the range this morning that was shooting pretty much what the OP is looking for. It had an A2 stock, old Olympic Arms lower, and Bushmaster 1 in 9" 20" HBAR with the A2 front sight. He said he pulled the original handguard off because he wanted a freefloat handguard, so he could add attachments and rails. It was a nice rifle, but shot like schidt. He had an ATN digital night vision scope on it. He said it was his coyote gun.. To each their own, I guess. Hell, here's another upper that the op could buy and it's a BCM:

BCM 20" GOVT. profile upper
Again, all he has to do is add the handguard he's looking for and find an A2 lower, or build the lower.

Non-floated ARs are very hold sensitive.

Is he going to be competing with it? How much deviation is it really? How much have you seen? You get all suited up and slung tight. I don't, so it's an honest question. It can't be any worse than the guys putting front sights on the handguard, or a flimsy handguard for that matter. That can really fu ck with accuracy. He still hasn't said why he wants a freefloating handguard. Unless he's been reading that they are absolutely necessary for precision. In which they are not. Especially for one that is not going to be used in full on competition. I know they used to use non freefloating handguards with lead in them. I actually shot one at my clubs AR shoots before I had my own. That rifle was used in Army competitions of some sort. I don't know the whole story on it, but it weighed 16 pounds. The OP may have got mad and left the building, but I am just curious about some of the reasons for his build. Like others have said, it's not going to resemble an original m16.

I went back and looked and totally misread the part of carry handle NOT needed. I guess I got stuck on original.

I've had a few, well more than a few non free floated hand guards on guns that would shoot. One Colt in particular was a solid 1 MOA shooter with it's non chrome lined 16" HBAR barrel. I just knew if I cut the front sight tower off and put on a free floating hand guard from Hogue (old school) that it would be a half minute shooter. After breaking the Colt upper because the barrel nut was well over 100ft. lbs. I got it swapped out and it was still a 1 MOA shooter.

Shooting one with a sling or adding pressure any other way and they will shift on you. Learning how to hold one to get decent accuracy isn't hard.

Thanks TWR. I know I misread stuff as well. Honest mistake that we all make from time to time. Hopefully the OP can find what he's looking for. Maybe post some pics of the finished project and let us know how it shoots.

IIRC, slung up - up to ~ 6 MOA. Otherwise, a minute or 2, getting worse as the barrel warms up. Put some pressure on the stock like with a bipod from prone, somewhere in between.

I don't shoot unfloated ARs any more.

I don't need a free floated forend, just thought it was accurate.
I don't need a front sight.
I don't need a forward assist.
I don't need the dust cover.
A machined in scope rail is good to have.
No competition.
I guess I just want the original looking stock and forearm.

How do you attach a bipod to an A2 style handguard? That may be causing the issue. I use a front rest and have no issues, but again I'm not using a sling.



Again, the OP is not really giving us much info on how he's going to be shooting his or the need for a freefloating handguard. Is it just going to be a range toy, or is he going to be in a straight jacket and slung up tight with a cute glove on and that kind of schidt? Also to TWR. I know when he says "1 moa" he's not talking about 3 shots. More like this:


I'll verify at 100 yards, with 10 shot groups, then play around at the 400 yard range:

In that case, any A3/A4 style you find will be good enough.

Forget eliminating the forward assist and dust cover. They come standard, and getting one without those is more problem than it's worth.

I said "like" a bipod. That can be any object that applies upward pressure to the barrel. "Like" a log.
And again, you aren't shooting from anything but a bench. If you were shooting prone or sitting or kneeling or standing or reverse kneeling ( ), you might find that head pressure makes a difference.

I’d suggest looking at Palmetto State Armory and finding a Lower with the A2 stock on it and searching their uppers to see what you like.

I’d suggest that the barrel is the most important part of the accuracy equation. I’m guessing you want a 20” barrel but be careful on going too heavy. The original 20” A1 barrel was a pencil barrel and made a nice portable gun but the A2 govt profile added a little weight out front while still being portable. Be warned an HBAR profile or bull barrel will keep that gun regulated to a bench more often than not. Though these are gonna be the most accurate choice given the same quality barrel.

I’d suggest a free floated MLok rail over the original hand guards but you like what you like so that’s your choice.

Edit to add; they do make a free floated hand guard that looks just like the original round hand guard. They have a tube in the center, are heavy and expensive and just won’t look right without a front sight tower.

Go to this page and start reading. Some of those uppers have no forward assist and any upper can be assembled without a dust cover door. Go to the next page and look over the uppers and pick out one you like.
https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=ar15%20upper

Since you mentioned left handed
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=92

Brownells Retro Rifle – BRN-601 is as close to the original "AR-15" as you can get. The USAF had AR-15s before the M-16.

https://www.arbuildjunkie.com/brownells-retro-rifles-an-overview-with-roy-hill/

https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=92

Cha-Ching!

Yes, they are. But, Rock River is well thought of accuracy wise. It also includes Rock River's 2 stage trigger. I have 2 of them. They are pretty darn good triggers. I hope you noticed it is on back order. It may be months before you see one. Try PSA and see what they have.

kwg

This came up in a search, I did not try to buy.
Maybe?

https://ar15.live/product/a2-upper-receiver/

charlee

8 meant Cha-Ching as in bingo!