As I've suggested before, electric cars will be viable outside the city/commuter environment only when replaceable battery packs are developed. Pull into the equivalent of a gas station and your nearly empty battery is removed, a fully charged one is installed, and you pay for the amount of charge difference between the two. Drive off. No interminable waiting to charge.
At home and around town, you recharge as usual.
How would that work when a customer swaps his new battery pack for a five year old battery with reduced range?
Gotta laugh at this topic and "Conservatives". You all sound just like liberals. An issue that has no actual effect on you, and you go on and on. Never seeking to educate yourselves on the topic, only seeking statistics that support your position. Most replies show the utter ignorance of the concept, and how it's intended to be implemented in real practice.
Hints.
Most miles driven are driven within a Tesla's range.
EVs can be home charged, most can plug into a normal extension cord. And a 110v charge is adequate for the small batteries to overnight charge.
Home chargers aren't as expensive as is told.
There are adapter outlets that allow you to split off a dryer. Shame on you I you can't manage that DIY. 30a 220v. Big step up. Couple hundred $$.
Most panels should support a 50a 220v circuit. DIY or several hundred for an electrochicken, that will support a Tesla if you aren't doing max daily miles.
The residential demand for electricity isn't what it's made out to be. Load management is a big thing. To some extent, night time charging will even demand and ease management of production.
Look back 130 years. Cars were a toy, horse people hated them. Tons of problems, things moved along based of the efforts of individuals. Common sense placed a horse ahead of cars. Reliable, fixed itself, fueled itself for free.
There are real issues. The materials needed, what to do with old batteries, the various infrastructures needed. Power demand will eventually exceed capacity, transmission and generation will need updated.
It will be a long time before a total EV fleet is possible, if ever. A new tech might eclipse EVs before it even can.
Now here come whiney voiced "But...But...Buts"
Don't own one. Have no dog in the fight. Could afford one, but don't chose to spend much money on any depreciating asset that also constantly has costs.
If our money situation was one where we could buy a Tesla for cash, while maintaining a similar vehicle for trips, and the cost didn't matter at all? I'd order one today. Because the tech is cool, I'd like to personally experience the use of it. Gain knowledge I knew was valid, not crap thrown around by a nitwit who hates on something he KNOWS nothing about.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
The mining that would need to be done to supply all the batteries would be more polluting of the planet than all the petroleum powered vehicles on the road today.
Gotta laugh at this topic and "Conservatives". You all sound just like liberals. An issue that has no actual effect on you, and you go on and on. Never seeking to educate yourselves on the topic, only seeking statistics that support your position. Most replies show the utter ignorance of the concept, and how it's intended to be implemented in real practice.
Hints.
Most miles driven are driven within a Tesla's range.
EVs can be home charged, most can plug into a normal extension cord. And a 110v charge is adequate for the small batteries to overnight charge.
Home chargers aren't as expensive as is told.
There are adapter outlets that allow you to split off a dryer. Shame on you I you can't manage that DIY. 30a 220v. Big step up. Couple hundred $$.
Most panels should support a 50a 220v circuit. DIY or several hundred for an electrochicken, that will support a Tesla if you aren't doing max daily miles.
The residential demand for electricity isn't what it's made out to be. Load management is a big thing. To some extent, night time charging will even demand and ease management of production.
Look back 130 years. Cars were a toy, horse people hated them. Tons of problems, things moved along based of the efforts of individuals. Common sense placed a horse ahead of cars. Reliable, fixed itself, fueled itself for free.
There are real issues. The materials needed, what to do with old batteries, the various infrastructures needed. Power demand will eventually exceed capacity, transmission and generation will need updated.
It will be a long time before a total EV fleet is possible, if ever. A new tech might eclipse EVs before it even can.
Now here come whiney voiced "But...But...Buts"
Don't own one. Have no dog in the fight. Could afford one, but don't chose to spend much money on any depreciating asset that also constantly has costs.
If our money situation was one where we could buy a Tesla for cash, while maintaining a similar vehicle for trips, and the cost didn't matter at all? I'd order one today. Because the tech is cool, I'd like to personally experience the use of it. Gain knowledge I knew was valid, not crap thrown around by a nitwit who hates on something he KNOWS nothing about.
I think most conservatives are more upset by the govt mandates and subsidies. But otherwise, cool story, bro.
As I've suggested before, electric cars will be viable outside the city/commuter environment only when replaceable battery packs are developed. Pull into the equivalent of a gas station and your nearly empty battery is removed, a fully charged one is installed, and you pay for the amount of charge difference between the two. Drive off. No interminable waiting to charge.
At home and around town, you recharge as usual.
That is unlikely to happen. The battery pack on a Tesla weighs a thousand pounds and we are very unlikely to reduce that weight significantly since battery development is running up against the laws of physics. How would charging stations store and move any quantity of these, especially when they aren't standardized from EV to EV. But there is a more fundamental problem: there are 290,000 million cars in the USA alone and 1.45 billion in the world. Just to put 100 million EV vehicle on the road worldwide will require a 400% to 7000% increase in Lithium mining and production capacity alone, to say nothing of the similar increase required in the production and mining of other rare-earth minerals required to power an EV. Moreover, it takes an average of 16 years to bring a Lithium mine and refining facility on-line. Even a 50% increase in Lithium mining and refining capacity would be a huge undertaking requiring decades of effort worldwide. There are (massive) other problems. Widespread use of EVs is a pipe-dream.
As I've suggested before, electric cars will be viable outside the city/commuter environment only when replaceable battery packs are developed. Pull into the equivalent of a gas station and your nearly empty battery is removed, a fully charged one is installed, and you pay for the amount of charge difference between the two. Drive off. No interminable waiting to charge.
At home and around town, you recharge as usual.
That is unlikely to happen. The battery pack on a Tesla weighs a thousand pounds and we are very unlikely to reduce that weight significantly since battery development is running up against the laws of physics. How would charging stations store and move any quantity of these, especially when they aren't standardized from EV to EV. But there is a more fundamental problem: there are 290,000 million cars in the USA alone and 1.45 billion in the world. Just to put 100 million EV vehicle on the road worldwide will require a 400% to 7000% increase in Lithium mining and production capacity alone, to say nothing of the similar increase required in the production and mining of other rare-earth minerals required to power an EV. Moreover, it takes an average of 16 years to bring a Lithium mine and refining facility on-line. Even a 50% increase in Lithium mining and refining capacity would be a huge undertaking requiring decades of effort worldwide. There are (massive) other problems. Widespread use of EVs is a pipe-dream.
All pointing to the fact that their real purpose isn't to replace every car with an electric one, but rather to eliminate the concept of the ordinary person owning a car. They will be for the elite. Everyone else will have public transportation only, and only for short distances, absent special permission.
Sorry the EV is destined for the trash heap of history. Sure it can be charged at night but the negative effects of EV's far outweigh the good they produce. You can commute short distances as cheap or cheaper with a small gas or diesel powered vehicle. If EV's were the panacea they're made out to be they wouldn't have to have subsidies to survive. The batteries are not environment friendly and are produced by China mostly. EV's are still mechanical and suffer the same effects of all mechanical vehicles. They cost exponentially more to purchase and have some nasty effects if something goes wrong in charging. If every commuter drove an EV there wouldn't be enough power production to support them and power our industry and homes too. The push to make wind and solar generation the primary producer of electricity is destroying our capacity. It is near impossible to get a power generating plant approved and refineries have been stalemated for a very long time. Our nation is slowly dying from stupidity.
They talk about fast charging - 10% to 80% in an hour or so. What they don't say is that when battery reaches that 80%, it reverts to slow charging and 80 to 100% takes as long as going from 10 to 80%. Tesla's are a little different so I don't know if this applies to them.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
They are the perfect solution, to a nonexistent problem. Fancy looking wrappers, surrounding a technology that will be surpassed by a more suitable platform within 10 years.
Some support for advancing tech and possibly improving transport, I support. Because it's how we operate today, but in theory not so much.
Rock Chuck, Tesla is leading the charge😁, but it applies to them also.
When tripping, EVs will try to hit a charger at 20% and charge to 80 or 90%. I don't think they revert to slow charging so much as a response to a differential.
Think of a batter as a tall thin tank filled from the bottom, and vented. The first water you pump I has no resistance, the fuller you get it the more water you have to displace to add water to the tank.
Probably a terrible analogy, didn't even take academic high-school classes.
Charging actually slows down as they charge.
The second guy is a bit hard to take, and a (reasonable) True Believer, but I think he is informative. His experience is mostly not Tesla level cars.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Top video---18, 40-minute stops to recharge in the course of a 2000-mile trip. JFC. 12 hours of stoppage in 2000 miles just to get fuel---and that doesn't include the time getting on and off the freeway or stopping for a piss break or lunch---which you can't do at a Tesla charging station unless it's within walking distance of a restaurant! A full day lost driving in just 2000 miles. The Tesla won't reach carb neutrality until about 75,000-80,000 miles and that is assuming your recharge energy comes exclusively from wind, solar or hydro. Then, 25,000 miles later, you have to replace the battery pack which puts you in another carbon deficit for about 70,000 more miles. This whole EV thing is a fraud. It's just ridiculous how we've gone all in for such obvious, utter bullschit. EV's accomplish one thing and one thing only: they tend to reduce air pollution in urban areas, only to move that same pollution (air and mining) to less urban locales. In toto, they are worse for the environment than fossil-fueled vehicles and we haven't even got to the discussion about what to do with these highly toxic, used-up lithium batteries. The whole thing is just a very, very bad joke.
Rock Chuck, Tesla is leading the charge😁, but it applies to them also.
When tripping, EVs will try to hit a charger at 20% and charge to 80 or 90%. I don't think they revert to slow charging so much as a response to a differential.
Think of a batter as a tall thin tank filled from the bottom, and vented. The first water you pump I has no resistance, the fuller you get it the more water you have to displace to add water to the tank.
Probably a terrible analogy, didn't even take academic high-school classes.
Charging actually slows down as they charge.
What happens is that cars have a built in converter to switch from AC to DC. When you plug into an AC outlet, it's converted before it gets to the battery. This is slow charging as it takes time. Fast charging comes from the charger already as DC at a very high voltage, sometimes as high as 480V DC. It'll bring the battery up to 80% very fast. However, once it reaches 80%, the car will revert to the internal converter which is slow charging. It doesn't matter what voltage is coming from the charger, the car's built in charger slows it down to reduce heat and preserve battery life. The bottleneck is the car itself, not the charger. This is similar to smart chargers for RV batteries or on your tool batteries. They need to be charged slowly for the last 20% to preserve battery life.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
My boss on the farm that I work on bought a Rivian. He bought it in October and sold it 2 weeks ago. He made a major profit on it. He has solar panels on his roof. His electric bill since he installed them has always been the minimum charge. During the time he owned it his power bills went through the roof. December bill was around 500 January and February were both over 700. Just before he bought it I made the comment in 5 years they will be a thing of the past. He told me I was full $hi#. Last week he told me you know what I told you last fall about your opinion. I hate to admit it but you may be right.
The only way the EVs can work on a huge scale is if the extremely expensive infrastructure is built to support them. It would take all our money, new power plants, and a decade to come close to that goal. Even if they develop a universal battery pack that can be swapped out at a "filling station", like we do with propane tanks, they still have to be charged. Our country simply doesn't have the capabilities. If even half of the vehicles in America were EVs, we couldn't handle the strain on the electrical grid. Why is nobody in our government talking about this? The only thing I can come up with is , it isn't about the environment as much as it is about the control.
I have swapped to all electric lawn equipment, except my gas riding mower, and have been very surprised at how well it all works. When my riding mower dies I will seriously consider the battery mowers BUT I won't even give the electric vehicles a second look until they figure out an affordable battery swap. We all know batteries slowly die every time you cycle them plus the range will get a little shorter with each recharge.
what happens to the old toxic batteries from EV's?
Where and who will mine these scare metals used in EV batteries other than black child slave labor in impoverished African countries?
I have swapped to all electric lawn equipment, except my gas riding mower, and have been very surprised at how well it all works. When my riding mower dies I will seriously consider the battery mowers BUT I won't even give the electric vehicles a second look until they figure out an affordable battery swap. We all know batteries slowly die every time you cycle them plus the range will get a little shorter with each recharge.
what happens to the old toxic batteries from EV's?
Where and who will mine these scare metals used in EV batteries other than black child slave labor in impoverished African countries?
You're not supposed to ask those questions......just believe.......
The only way the EVs can work on a huge scale is if the extremely expensive infrastructure is built to support them. It would take all our money, new power plants, and a decade to come close to that goal. Even if they develop a universal battery pack that can be swapped out at a "filling station", like we do with propane tanks, they still have to be charged. Our country simply doesn't have the capabilities. If even half of the vehicles in America were EVs, we couldn't handle the strain on the electrical grid. Why is nobody in our government talking about this? The only thing I can come up with is , it isn't about the environment as much as it is about the control.
Those propane tanks are a gimmick. Most people take them in when they're still 1/4 full so they're throwing away much of the gas they paid for. Swapping batteries would likely be the same. I'd bet that they'd charge you for a full one but won't give you credit for what's left in the old one.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
Gotta laugh at this topic and "Conservatives". You all sound just like liberals. An issue that has no actual effect on you, and you go on and on. Never seeking to educate yourselves on the topic, only seeking statistics that support your position. Most replies show the utter ignorance of the concept, and how it's intended to be implemented in real practice.
Hints.
Most miles driven are driven within a Tesla's range.
EVs can be home charged, most can plug into a normal extension cord. And a 110v charge is adequate for the small batteries to overnight charge.
Home chargers aren't as expensive as is told.
There are adapter outlets that allow you to split off a dryer. Shame on you I you can't manage that DIY. 30a 220v. Big step up. Couple hundred $$.
Most panels should support a 50a 220v circuit. DIY or several hundred for an electrochicken, that will support a Tesla if you aren't doing max daily miles.
The residential demand for electricity isn't what it's made out to be. Load management is a big thing. To some extent, night time charging will even demand and ease management of production.
Look back 130 years. Cars were a toy, horse people hated them. Tons of problems, things moved along based of the efforts of individuals. Common sense placed a horse ahead of cars. Reliable, fixed itself, fueled itself for free.
There are real issues. The materials needed, what to do with old batteries, the various infrastructures needed. Power demand will eventually exceed capacity, transmission and generation will need updated.
It will be a long time before a total EV fleet is possible, if ever. A new tech might eclipse EVs before it even can.
Now here come whiney voiced "But...But...Buts"
Don't own one. Have no dog in the fight. Could afford one, but don't chose to spend much money on any depreciating asset that also constantly has costs.
If our money situation was one where we could buy a Tesla for cash, while maintaining a similar vehicle for trips, and the cost didn't matter at all? I'd order one today. Because the tech is cool, I'd like to personally experience the use of it. Gain knowledge I knew was valid, not crap thrown around by a nitwit who hates on something he KNOWS nothing about............
Look back 130 years. Cars were a toy, horse people hated them. Tons of problems, things moved along based of the efforts of individuals. Common sense placed a horse ahead of cars. Reliable, fixed itself, fueled itself for free. ...... difference is .back then ,people chose to switch from horses to cars .people chose to open gas stations to handle these cars ....goverment ..democrats are dictating to us and forcing us to go to electric cars wither we want to or not
And you would demand a rebate from tax payers when you purchased the Tesla
Originally Posted by rem shooter
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
Gotta laugh at this topic and "Conservatives". You all sound just like liberals. An issue that has no actual effect on you, and you go on and on. Never seeking to educate yourselves on the topic, only seeking statistics that support your position. Most replies show the utter ignorance of the concept, and how it's intended to be implemented in real practice.
Hints.
Most miles driven are driven within a Tesla's range.
EVs can be home charged, most can plug into a normal extension cord. And a 110v charge is adequate for the small batteries to overnight charge.
Home chargers aren't as expensive as is told.
There are adapter outlets that allow you to split off a dryer. Shame on you I you can't manage that DIY. 30a 220v. Big step up. Couple hundred $$.
Most panels should support a 50a 220v circuit. DIY or several hundred for an electrochicken, that will support a Tesla if you aren't doing max daily miles.
The residential demand for electricity isn't what it's made out to be. Load management is a big thing. To some extent, night time charging will even demand and ease management of production.
Look back 130 years. Cars were a toy, horse people hated them. Tons of problems, things moved along based of the efforts of individuals. Common sense placed a horse ahead of cars. Reliable, fixed itself, fueled itself for free.
There are real issues. The materials needed, what to do with old batteries, the various infrastructures needed. Power demand will eventually exceed capacity, transmission and generation will need updated.
It will be a long time before a total EV fleet is possible, if ever. A new tech might eclipse EVs before it even can.
Now here come whiney voiced "But...But...Buts"
Don't own one. Have no dog in the fight. Could afford one, but don't chose to spend much money on any depreciating asset that also constantly has costs.
If our money situation was one where we could buy a Tesla for cash, while maintaining a similar vehicle for trips, and the cost didn't matter at all? I'd order one today. Because the tech is cool, I'd like to personally experience the use of it. Gain knowledge I knew was valid, not crap thrown around by a nitwit who hates on something he KNOWS nothing about............
Look back 130 years. Cars were a toy, horse people hated them. Tons of problems, things moved along based of the efforts of individuals. Common sense placed a horse ahead of cars. Reliable, fixed itself, fueled itself for free. ...... difference is .back then ,people chose to switch from horses to cars .people chose to open gas stations to handle these cars ....goverment ..democrats are dictating to us and forcing us to go to electric cars wither we want to or not
"Reordering the US transportation system through policy and spending shifts to prioritize public and active transit while reducing car dependency can also ensure transit equity, protect ecosystems, respect Indigenous rights, and meet the demands of global justice."
All you need to know.
IS THAT RIGHT ___WRONG in Quebecu Canada they are draining lakes after the remove the fish then open pit mining for lithem ore destroying thousands of acres of trapping lands fishing lakes rivers , building hundreds of miles of roads , processing plants and ancelliory infrastructure.
norm
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle----Robert Alden . If it wern't entertaining, I wouldn't keep coming back.------the BigSky
