Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles .300 Blackout subs...not shooting well.

I planned to try some .300 Blackout subs for hog hunting, but was dissatisfied with them.

I tried the Nosler 220gr Ballistic Tip - which has the large round nose, and the 198gr LeHigh, which has deep slits in the ogive. Both are designed to expand at subsonic velocity. Both loaded over 10.6gr of 1680, and shot in a Daniel Defense AR. Not many shots fired, but all functioned the action and ejected properly.

Accuracy was very erratic. I did not chrono them, but both loads had trouble hitting a 6" target at 100 yards. I also found some of the fired bullets, which passed through the 3/8" plywood used as a target backer, and were laying on a dirt bank. They did not penetrate the dirt. One of the LeHighs expanded very slightly, the other did not. The Nosler did open up some. I know plywood and animals are two different media, but I wasn't impressed with the performance of either load. photo attached

I'm wondering if powder position in the case could be affecting ignition. Perhaps a slower, bulkier powder might work, to fill the case and give more consistent velocity? 4198?

I've also thought about case fillers to keep the powder positioned consistently, but worry about fillers clogging the gas system.

Experience and suggestions appreciated!

I would check a few things. If you are running a suppressor, fire it without it installed.
Make sure your barrel and barrel extension are tight as well as the scope/mount and rings.
Make sure your gas block is not hitting your hand guard.
Make sure you have not installed picatinny rails on the hand guard with screws that are too long and hitting the barrel or gas block.
Make sure your front sand bag is actually on the hand guard and not on the barrel itself.

Tony

With my trials with the 300 bo they seem to do better at closer ranges.

Seems that folks think the bullets should work at long range when they are not going very fast in the first place.

Even the Lehigh i have loaded had their limits and others were just to tough to do much more than bend or mess up the point some.

I even tried some 110 gr.V-max in the 300 and the 7.62x39 and found when shot at lower speeds they are pretty tough.

Good luck in your search.

Thanks - no supressor, all the rest check out.

Lil gun. and H110 have worked best for me so far. around 8 grains give or take. The slower they go the more trouble I ran into. But found out thats supposedly mostly not tight enough barrel to seal the gas. Rem factory 5R 700 barrel

I have a rock barrel on an AR but have never fired a sub in it. Found no reason to want subs in the AR but thats not the topic.
I"d assume it might do better. It runs supersonic barnes in small groups.

The Lehigh. I just don't get folks ding them. They have been by far the best performers on game for us. Exits usually on the order of an inch or even more depending.
As to distance while we have shot some game a bit closer, almost all the Lehigh kills are from 100 to 125 yards but have done fine all the way to 200 even though the accuracy out there was falling off. Its only pig or deer ribs anyway.

Sure hope you work it out.
FWIW I have played with Dacron filler to keep the powder against the primer and can only say it hasn't hurt anything ever.

I'd shoot the AR with supersonic rounds.. which IIRC you have done. If it shoots them, then the gun should be fine, should be no issue with it or your technique. Knowing you I'd not even question the technique of shooting.

Many moons back, there was an old wives tale of squib loads blowing up guns. The theory was that small squib loads spread out along the length of the case. The primer then ignited all the charge instead of the charge burning as it should.
The solution was to stuff a bit of "kapok" into the case to hold the powder charge against the bottom of the case.

I was always a bit skeptical of such doings, so I never tried it.

I had a gent tell me that he consistently killed deer at 250 to 300 yards with his .300 BO.
The cartridge is actually no more than a semi auto, low powered .30-30 Win. Then you siphon off a little more of the gas to operate the gun.
What's wrong with this picture?

I shoot a 6.8mm Rem SPC, no suppressor and no sub sonic ammo. I wanna kill 'em dead!

First the Nosler Ballistic Tip 220 gr will not expand much if at all at sub-sonic velocities....for the best performance Cutting Edge Bullets or second choice Maker or Lehigh for sub-sonic performance on game animals there bullets are made for sub-sonic velocity ....they seal very good in all rifling I've tried and also expand at the lower velocities of sub-sonic...
One of the best powders is Trail Boss it is made for a full case and sub-sonic velocities....also it is a very quit powder compared to any other powder made....

Thanks - what powder charge for trail boss, in the .300 ?

I've had good luck with vihtavuori 110 in a 300 BO bolt gun.

Lots of good info here seeing as you are shooting an AR ----- 300BO MASTER THREAD

50yrd 5 shot group - subsonic 190grn Hornady SubX with N110

I'm curious too. Did not have luck with Trail boss. So its worth a look again.

Hmm. Everything I've shot with subs in the 300/221 has been dead pretty quickly. Can't say that for other rounds. Of course thats not comparing fair numbers. But we haven't lost a single deer or pig with it yet. Using it for about 12 years now....and we want em dead too....

The 300 whatchamacallit never impressed me too much. And for the main reason you mentioned.

The bullets tend more to deform than any kind of meaningful expansion. After all, the 308 bullets were designed more around supersonic velocities than subsonic performance.

I have used the Lehigh max expansions and to be honest, I think just making it so the bullet penetrates more is better than expansion and works better for hunting so you can drive in deeper to the vitals since velocity if more akin to a pistol caliber.

With that said, if you like subsonic expansion, I'm a much bigger fan of the 9x39 while using speer soft cor 270 gr 9.3mm mauser bullets loaded in it. For a while, before biden banned russian imports, a lot of folks really liked the 9x39 when they could get wolf and tula imports, but you can still load your own. Matter of fact, that's one of the reasons why I adopted the 9x39 was when Redding/KAK started doing loading dies for it and they're a lot easier to reload than blk too. And a lot better downrange performance. A lot of people don't think that just 50 more gr of bullet traveling the same 1000 fps (example) provides more than 100 ft lb more energy when compared side by side, but it does. So, the 9x39 has more going for it.

270 gr bullet--1000 fps= 599.4 ft lb
220 gr bullet--1000 fps= 488.4 ft lb

So, as you can see, the subsonic 9x39 has near the same velocity of at least what a 357 magnum using 158 gr @1300 fps does. (592 ft lb)

Here's a couple of 220 gr nosler 308/blk on the left and center and the 9x39 on the far right recovered out of the berm where I shoot. 308 pills simply don't really expand worth a hoot. But the 9x39 loaded as near to the same velocity just works better.

I was going to edit my post above but seems like when I do that, I never get reply notifications. So I'll add this here.

here's a 300 blk lehigh max expansion recovered



And here's a 9x39 lehigh max expansion prototype recovered



300 blk and 9x39 side by side
[img]https://i.imgur.com/NcubyaV.jpg?1[/img]


9x19 and 9x39 side by side



And a few various loads that I've used for the 9x39

The Lehigh do find in game. I"ve not ever had an issue. Exits are always big. inch or better.

Regardless you don't need expansion to kill. Killed lots with 240 sMK. Zero expansion.

Of course if there is something better thats even better. I'd like to see the 9 on game and not just played with. Thats the only way you will know if its actually better.

What I like about the 300.221 is ballistics allow me to easily shoot it to 200 yards with subs. How bad is the 9?

Nothing beats cast lead at low velocity and if properly crafted the accuracy will be far more than adequate.

There was a guy several years ago that killed a cow elk with a 9x39 wolf factory load. Story as was told to me was 1 shot and it went down. He said he thought it was going to get back up and was going to shoot it again, but it just rolled over and down the hill and he never fired the other shot. He sent me a picture of it in email, but I don't want to post it publicly considering it's not me or my photo. He got it with one of the krebs guns and not an AR. Not that it really matters about which gun was used. The bullet is what did the work.

200 yards is no problem with the 9x39. Actually, 300-350 isn't really a problem with it either. Though, by that far out, realistically, you're lobbing it. I'm not going to say it's a super cartridge, but it does do better than the blk and at the distances that I hunt, I prefer it over the blk. That's not to say 300 blk sucks, but the 9x39 is just simply better.

Here's a video that some guys did shooting a krebs and 9x39. Towards the middle and end of the video they start really running it out there, even to 500+ with repetition. Though, I personally wouldn't do that except for banging steel. That's what a lot of people don't consider. It's one thing to plink and play around at those distances on paper and static targets, but entirely different on an animal. I wouldn't do it. But 300 and in, I would feel comfortable with that. Skip the first 4 minutes to start getting into the longer range stuff. I personally think it's just a better round than the subsonic 300. I've only shot my 300 blk integral once since getting into the 9x39.

I absolutely tend to agree. I've been casting stuff for 357 loads I've used on whitetail and have recently gotten into doing the same for the 10mm and while I wasn't able to get one with the 10mm last year due to a lot of health reasons with my wife, I had some hardcast 175 gr pills for the 10mm that I think would've likely had a complete pass through, but maybe I'll get to find out this year if I don't get one before that with the crossbow again.

I have had pretty good results with 4198 and RL 7

This might help.....

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...e/re-inspired-by-the-thread#Post17882585

Thanks . I will check that out when I have time. may cost me a new barrel and bolt. and dies. Bullets. LOL. Oh duh, different can. You might be evil. Grins

As to going down at the shot, ,thats all pure luck or pure shot placement CNS. Nothing more or less.

You might also try running a heavy crimp on those bullets.
During early testing of the 375 SOCOM, subsonic, I found terrible standard deviation when shooting non-crimped bullets.
Running a heavy crimp solved the issue completely. That was with IMR 700X and 325gr Maker Subsonic Expander bullets.

Tony