Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles AR-10 vs bolt

that`s why i hunt deer with a single shot Ruger #1 ,one shot one kill and my brass is always easy to find and keep.

Although not traditionally a "black gun" guy, I too have been impressed with the accuracy of numerous AR type rifles. I now have several.



IMHO, they are an outstanding choice for occasions that may facilitate quick follow up shots and shots on multiple targets.



ArmaLite AR-10, 308 Win.



Armalite AR-10 lower, Wilson Combat barreled 338 Federal







ArmaLite AR-15, 223 Wylde

The pic rail mounts, M-Lok and Key Mod handguards make it simple to mount night vision or thermal optics, lights and other accessories.



They definitely have a place in my rifle battery.

ya!

GWB

WTF is a "bolt AR-10?"



Just a few minutes ago I placed orders at 5 different outfits to to gather what I need to assemble another large frame AR in .260 Remington. The heart of it will be the Lilja barrel and that's because I am smitten with the performance of the one that belonged to my deceased neighbor. I have some decent shooting centerfire rifles, but this .260 easily beats all of them except my .22 centerfires. Between the one I have already and the one to be built, these will be my hunting ARs, one wearing a conventional scope and the other equipped with a thermal. NO MORE wishing for a better AR15 caliber for hogs (have been using 6.8 SPC and 6mm AR). I am confident the new .260 will shoot as well as the one that sucked me down into this rabbit hole.

The idea I have swirling about in my head is "it's the barrel, stupid."

Thanks for the clarification. I'm sure it does shoot very well. Now, compare that to an actual AR10/AR308 type rifle. Like I said, at this point it is basically a bolt action rifle, not an AR10 type gas operated rifle.

That is a beauty. Looks like you kept yours pretty much original. I urge you to shoot the black rifle challenge with it and get back to us. I'd be interested to see how yours does. I know mine did not do as well as I had hoped. The AR15's all shot better. That is one reason why I like that challenge so much, it tests the rifle and shooter so you can't cherry pick stuff and falsely claim schidt. Hopefully that makes sense? And yes, I have the exact rifle you say is the "exception". To me it was not one. Not even by a long shot:


This is actually a 1.5 moa rifle and I accept if for that. Even though it has turned in some awesome 3 and 5 shot groups. The more consistent AR10 type rifle I have is a S&W M&P 10 Performance Center 6.5 Creedmoor. That rifle surprises me, never have had a hiccup with it and it always shoots sub moa, but still not as well as any of my precision bolt actions chambered for the same cartridge.

Here are some cool targets that I shot at 500 yards on a really bad day (very poor visibility). Good comparison of a bolt action vs. an AR10:

S&W Performance Center 6.5 CM:

Score of 100-9x, meas: 4.625" @ .883 MOA


Tikka T3x CTR 6.5 Creedmoor:

Score of 100-8x, meas: 3.375" @ .645 MOA





Do they make more precise AR10's? Sure they do, but most of us don't have them. The one that Pat Sinclair shot in the black rifle challenge would have cost upwards of $10,000.00 for the total package. GAP is not cheap, but a lot of guys here don't have them and won't pay that for an AR10. When you look at both challenges here, you will see that there were not very many AR10's that shot sub moa. That is good testimony and real life from my experience. The 6.5 Creedmoor M&P 10 above is one that is in that challenge that scored well below MOA on average.

What I'm doing here (with the pics above) is comparing 2 very similarly priced rifles with same/same scopes and ammo. Tit for tat, the bolt action wins out on group size/capability. However, In the above targets, you will see the AR10 won as far as score goes. That was my fault, not the rifle's.

Yeah, I got that Armalite in a divorce sale... It was NIB... Still had the rolled up cardboard inside the barrel.

I sighted it in with a FFP Primary Arms scope, and it did sub-MOA, but I didn't get down to brass tacks with the load, or shooting it much.

It's just too heavy for most field applications for me when I have lighter, handier AR10 .308s around.

My most accurate rifle is an AR15 I had made up many years ago. It shot bugholes with the Blackhole barrel, but have since re-barrelled with a Stoner. It's MOA now, is all. Wish I could still get a Black Hole 18" carbon barrel... But they have sold out to another company.

I've got this on up for sale.

I like that Armalite. Mine is a B model, that takes the steel Armalite mags. You are right, they are HEAVY!! I know I would not want to pack mine very far, but it's slightly heavier than yours is, because of the PRS stock. Like Biebs, that just posted, mine is up for sale as well. Just too heavy to be useful much outside of bench work. My rifle is on consignment at a local shop. Hopefully it sells. If not, I'll keep it, as it's a good range toy. I'm more into shooting my bolt action 308's right now though. Both the Tikka T3 stainless lite and the new Winchester model 70 both shoot better than the AR10:




For a lightweight rifle, that Tikka shoots..^^^^

New 308 is doing well, but got it's azz handed to it the other day by one of my CTR 6.5's:





Really liking that model 70. It's a shooting sob. The other day on my favorite yote:


Didn't have a tape measure, but looked to be about 3/4". My eyeball is usually not too far off. Still, I have not seen too many AR10's that will shoot like that at 400 yards. YMMV..

My .308 DPMS GII Hunter with the 20” bbl is the most accurate semi rifle I ever have shot. Ad it's a lot lighter than a typical AR10. I can get 0.3” – 0.4” groups with Nosler-loaded 168gr ABLR bullets when I do my part. It never has failed to fire or cycle properly. Others have felt the same way: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2020/2/6/review-dpms-gii-ar-308 (“The GII Hunter I tested blew me away with its accuracy. I was primarily testing that rifle for our sister publication American Hunter and didn’t even plan to include it in this article, but the performance is too impressive to ignore. American Hunter uses three, three-shots groups with three different loads as a test protocol. With the Black Hills 168-gr. load, the first group measured 0.30”. That was the best, but the average of three groups was 0.47”. The average for all nine groups was 0.80”. From an out-of-the-box AR-L shooting factory ammunition, that is very impressive accuracy.”).

https://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/gun-shots/gun-review-dpms-gii-hunter/ (“The DPMS GII is a reimagined AR-10-size rifle with a number of innovations built in. Most noticeable of these is that the weight has been stripped from the platform. Empty, the GII (signifying the second generation of DPMS’s AR-10s) weighs 7 pounds 12 ounces. This is still about a pound more than a comparable bolt-action .308, but is a far cry from the first hunting AR I owned (a DPMS in .260), which tipped the scales at 8 pounds 12 ounces. Another way to look at it is, the GII weighs about the same as a .223-size AR-15. … The story behind the GII’s weight loss starts with the engineering that went into the internal components, specifically the bolt and bolt carrier. Adam Ballard, DPMS’s product manager, says they realized that they could make a bolt carrier with the same diameter as a .223 AR, while not compromising in any way the strength of the system. The GII is also built with a smaller receiver hub, which is the portion of the upper receiver that the barrel nut threads on to.”).

Marinehawk, you usually post different pictures. I figured you would be posting on this subject. If I were looking for a lightweight AR10, I'd probably go this route. I've had the GII in hand and like them. The Ruger SFAR I am still not totally convinced about. I know Ruger's QC has sucked donkey balls for some time now. YMMV. For those with SFAR'S, prove to me that they are not a POS..