Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only What color front bead?

I'm ordering sights for a new build. NEGC banded front and adjustable rear. White/Brass/ or Red Fiber? I was leaning toward the red fiber but wonder if its just too Bright and blooms?

Second question is what size? 3/32 or 1/16?

If you are actually going to be hunting game with this I'd say white in 3/32

I prefer white and the bigger bead also.

This is a 50 B&M Alaskan on a Siamese mauser action but built to look like a model 70 safari. Use will be pigs and maybe some close range deer.

I've used white, gold, silver and red fiber to take game. Green fiber shows up better in low light than any of them. The others ain't even close. Regardless of what color you choose, get the 3/32 bead. It will show up better and you can't shoot if you can't see your sight.

I want green but NEGC doesn't seem to list anything in green

I’m replacing my front sights with brass posts. I had one on a rifle for a few years and I liked it a lot. I just bought a second and probably with replace most of my lever front sights with brass posts.

I agree with the gold-colored patridge/post/sourdough.
Townsend Whelen did too.
After melting one fiberoptic front bead with an accidental bit of solvent, I quit using them.
Too fragile.

You do realize the fiber optic is easy to replace right ? All you need is a piece of fiber optic {which is readily available} something to cut it with and a butane lighter.

I hate fiber optic sights on my guns.

About 8% of American men are color-blind in various degrees--which means having somebody else recommend an optic bead color might not help. This can also apply to a lesser extent with various metal beads.

Have used a bunch of "iron" sights, and while the flat-topped Patridge or other post can work well, it depends on how far you might shoot. Most hunters today consider non-optical sights for close-range shooting, but have killed a number of big game animals at 200-350 yards with various front sights and an aperture rear. (The 350-yard shot was on a Quebec caribou.)

Have used fiber-optic beads, and while they present a very defined aiming point, have also seen a few knocked off their base. This still leaves something to aim with--maybe, if the light's right. But I also don't generally carry another bead in the field.)

In general gold/copper or silver work well, especially if you a fine file to angle the face of the bead (or even a post) at about 45-degees away from your eye. This not only picks up more light, but eliminates the "hot-spotting" that can occur with a round bead, where a reflected tiny point of light can cause the rifle to impact slightly differently, depending on the angle of the sun, etc. Using a fine file even gives the bead a slight glow, due to light reflecting off the tiny striations in the angled face. (Believe I read this in Townsend Whelen's writings years ago, but it was quite a while ago. It works.)

Bingo. My 416 Rem M70 wears that in a Wisner front banded base and his remake of the M70 rear sight. Perfect combo IMO.

Nothing shows up better in low light. Not brass or white or silver not even at a 45 degree angle. I have hunted them all extensively and I can regularly shoot groups under 1" at 50 yards and under 2" at 100 with the fiber optic beads. For years I used ivory beads and killed dozens of deer with them in conjunction with an aperture rear, but since trying the fiber optics I wouldn't have anything else on my iron sighted hunting rifles. I have had no troubles with breakage or solvent dissolving mine.

I've had the fiber optic sight on handguns and shotguns. Don't mind on a shotgun but did not like Tham on the handgun. Couldn't shoot them as accurately. Would not want on on a my rifle.

^^^ this^^^

My eye-sight has a problem with certain shades of green vs blue. But I’m not sure that’s my issue with front sights.
The front sight has been an issue of which I’ve tried many alternatives. I believe that the brass post is the best for me. I’ve tried a myriad of different front sights over the years. The sight I like best for target work is the Lyman sight with interchangeable inserts. But for hunting, the brass post is clearly the best for me.

I dislike very much Buckhorn sights. There’s no possible way for me to ever warm up to that sight. The trash can is too good for the buck horn sights.

I much prefer aperture sights in general, though in some situations a shallow V is might be better. I dislike sights that interfere with my grip - so tang sights is “no way”. I will not have them.

Maybe it would be different for pistols, IDK. I have not changed factory revolver sights much, except the Super Black Hawk which has crude sights, in my opinion. The only semi-auto I have, was my dad’s 1911 45. It wears target sights and probably will stay that way. I e primarily used that pistol for target work, never hunting.

Ditto jpw475,
I hate fiberoptic sights, can barely tolerate them on a shotgun as long as I have replacement kit for field carry,
but only on a rifle until I can replace that fragile plastic bead with something stouter.

Here is the Whelen pronouncement from 1954 GUN DIGEST.

Here is the choice insert from NECG.
A full 45 degrees forward slant is not required:



Here it is on a .458 WM M70 Classic:



A similar one on a .416 Dakota M70 Classic:



The next best thing:

Best ramp is banded and has fold forward hood:







Next best is banded and has a windowed hood with push button fastener:

The grand African .458 WM M70 rear sight was paired originally with a 3/32" silver bead,
and I find that will do.







I really look at iron sights as primarily backup to a scope. A low power scope trumps all.
The M70 African reproduction by Wisner can be filed into a flat-topped, square-notched rear sight,
and used with the gold patridge.
I did that 20 years ago on a .500 A-Square:



Hard to beat that, unless it is a peep rear sight with gold patridge front.

Whelen never had the chance to try a fiber optic bead. I had sourdough front sights on rifles 40 years ago and moved on. Have killed deer beyond 200 yards several times and once just beyond 300 yards with a bead front sight and aperture rear. All one shot kills. They seem to work pretty good for some of us.

Whelen would probably rap the fiberoptic sight with his pipe bowl as a first test before lighting up.

Peep and post works well.
I scored 299/300 on M16 qualifying with peep and post.
I suspect they locked the 300-meter silhouette on my 300th shot, so as not to let a plebe get a perfect score.
Either that or I shot the center out of the 300 meter target,
back when I could see like Chuck Yeager and Ted Williams with my spectacles on.

Leaned my rifle against the tailgate of my truck pre dawn on opening morning of deer season a few years ago to put my jacket on. Partner came around the side of the truck, didn't see it in the dark and knocked it over. Naturally the Williams front Firesight landed on a rock. Bent the sight pretty good but didn't break the fiber optic. I straightened it out best I could with pliers and went hunting. Killed a buck about an hour later. Sights still on the rifle and working fine today. Doubt a rap with a pipe bowl would hurt it much.

Got lucky twice that day.

Perhaps but that could certainly be said if the same had happened with most any hunting sight. I have seen ivory beads snapped off, brass beads fall out and many bent front sights of various types. Certainly most any scope could have been broken or knocked out of zero in such a fall. Generally I try not to beat my rifles around no matter what sights they wear.

I like a gold or brass bead, white too.Any of those two NECG orReknagel sizes are just fine.

OK, best front sight bead is whatever you like.
Apparently there is just no accounting for taste in front sights.
I think those fiberoptic beads are pretty but foul tasting.
A reliable scope tastes best of all, but a big monster scope can go sour.

Best is Leupold 2.5x20mm Ultralight (weighs 6.5 ounces) ...



... best value, most indestructible.

Any of the 1.5-5X20mm or 24mm scopes (1" or 30mm tubes) will add more weight and versatility.
Leupold and the discontinued Nikon are my personal favorites for value and reliability.
I really like the Leupold 2.5-8x36mm VX-III scope (1" tube) on any rifle, even a .458 WinMag.
I have never destroyed one of those.
Good eye relief and fits on a Whitworth M98.
Discontinued Nikon P3 Shotgun, SlugHunter, InLine 3-9x40mm scopes are great too, if you can find one,
but have shorter ring spacing and require extension rings or bases more often.

Best eye relief is when back end of scope ocular lines up with back side of trigger guard, as in picture above with 2.5X20mm Leupold.
Nominal 5" of ER is about as good as it gets in a normally mounted scope.
You can live with less if you can deal with keeping scope forward regardless of nominal ER,
accept some loss of FOV.
I do not like scout scopes unless there is no other way.

Use steel Weaver-style, cross-slot bases from Warne Maxima, Leupold Mark 4, etc.,
whatever fits on FN and Whitworth M98 Mauser actions.







I like getting gunsmith to change screw holes to 8x40 instead of factory 6x48.
Some of those bases come with both sets of screws.
I like the J-B Weld epoxy on the bases and screws too. Better than Loctite, which may be used instead.

Leupold QRW rings are better than the vertically split Talley IMHO.
Burris Xtreme Tactical rings are great, but uglier, and a great value in dollars, they are my favorite rings.
Instead of QD levers that can be used on either left side or right side of rifle with Leupold QRW,
the Burris X-Tac rings have 1/2" nuts on the right side of ring only, cannot switch to left side.
They come in 1", 30mm, Low, Medium, High, X-Hi, etc.

QD levers must point above the bore line if used on right side of rifle
and must point below the bore line of rifle if used on left side of rifle.
See first picture above with the QRW levers.
Recoil acts to keep levers tightened that way.

LOL. Now everybody who frequents the optics forum here knows you don't know your ass from your elbow when it comes to scopes. Apparently you didn't get the memo. Leupold is unreliable junk. They don't track and they won't hold zero. Plus apparently you like walnut stocks which are too delicate and prone to dimensional changes which can cause zero shifts so are not the best on a serious hunting rifle. Oh and taste has nothing to do with what sight I use. I go with what works best and after using them all it's a green fiber optic bead for me.

This or the larger white bead. I like the green best in dot sights or fiber but like you said , they don't do green. My brass looses it's shine occasionally but it usually comes back from rubbing with my thumb. All my levers and pumps have gold (brass) beads. Post is better but mine came with the bead type.

A while back I put an NEGC sight set on a Ruger. Had a near vertical brass post. I absolutely couldn't see the thing in outdoor lighting conditions. A big white bead ain't bad. For me, it seems like plain black works better than anything else. I'll suggest trying to replicate each sight combination you're thinking of and try to "use" it under various light conditions .. dusk-ish, bright daylight, shadows, etc .. before choosing if possible.

Are they made so that the fiber optic can't be replaced ? If so I'd definitely go with another sight.

I have been accused of hating woodstocks by one nimrod here and now another accuses me of doting on them !
I am taking the "Mauser Scoping" material to its own devoted thread for contributions by other members.
Meanwhile, I certainly think I know the difference between an ass and a moon bead.







BTW, that XL White bead is on a rifle in a Brown Precision fiberglass stock,
my first love in rifle stocks,
then it was McMillan,
then it was HS Precision,
now it is a B&C Medalist.
Wood is for when I am feeling nostalgic.

Flat black square post. Big white bead second choice. Have both.
F01

Gee, one thing I've noticed over the decades is that the light-angle isn't always helpful for "illuminating" a front sight...which is why I prefer the 45-degree angle, which so far hasn't proven to be a disadvantage.

A few strokes with a file will put a 45 degree angle on the corner of that NECG patridge.
A little dab of 45-degree will brighten up the top edge,
after filing down the total height to desired.
A gold patridge shows up better on an albino squirrel than a white bead does.

Yup. Breaking the top to 45 changes how well you can see it in bad light. It also changes how you see it in bright light. Fact. Whether it’s a bother to you or not, that’s a personal matter.
I live ok with both.
F01

Be careful not to screw up everything with a file.When you have to use a file that's bad news.

I don't care for the glare you can get off a brass sight in direct sunlight. A black Patridge is the first to completely disappear in low light situations. It's particularly useless under the canopy in a conifer forest at prime time.

Rip,
Bringing out the “never seen a good idea”natives I see.
Other than a shooting helmet of course.
For those who are still both reading and thinking; flat black post works 90% of every day. Put a 45 degree on the top / tip and white fingernail polish that portion, you get the other 10% of the day free.
If that doesn’t suit you, just carry on with whatever makes you happy as will we.
F01

My favorite front sight is a simple blade that I cleaned up and painted flat black.

I lightly drug a fine file over the back corner. Made a shiny little spot on the back, top edge. It shows up beautifully in most any light. Ended up lovin’ it.

There's not much can be done with iron sights that I haven't done before. I've been installing, modifying, painting, filing, shooting targets, competing in registered competition and killing game both big and small with all sorts of them for over 50 years. I have installed literally thousands of them on rifles, shotguns and handguns over the years. Nothing but tritium remains visible with less light than a good fiber optic.

Sir Dennis,
Yep, before I went over to the gold patridge, I was using a black one
with the top rear corner filed to 45 degrees
and painted white on the 45-degree patch,
used automoblie touch-up white paint.
It came in a little bottle with a brush in the cap similar to fingernail polish which I did not have on hand,
Wife never used white.
That is what I had with the flat-top-square-notch-filed Wisner-copy African rear sight on the .500 A-Square.
Worked fine on nearly a ton of 5-1/2 y.o. bison at 50 yards.
On a rat gun that sight set works well for squirrels too, whether albino or those big black monsters in Canada.

No express rifle guy, but I do use irons more than most. PNW heavy timber on an overcast or rainy day...I've tried a lot of styles. My favorite is a military style broad post or black patridge. I take a jewelers saw, Harbor Freight 14 bucks, cut a tiny vertical slit dead center on the black face....paint the saw kerf very carefully with ProTec lure paint...plain old white. Gives a low light precise repeatable aiming point. A flat top deep fairly wide rectangular rear, imagine an exaggerated patridge pistol sight, enhances the sight alignment. I hate fiber, to my eye it's just a colorful shotgun bead, and about as precise.

Agree 💯 %

It is not for nothing gold round beads have been used on front sights since who knows when.

Rip
I would be more than happy with the gold partridge sight as well. I would be happy with an Elmer Keith modified design with gold horizontal inserts. I use big hole peep on the rear so I can focus on that front square.
I put an XS sight on the old Whelen this year but have not shot it much yet. It’s a square front with white insert. I’m confident I’ll get along with it just fine.
Best to you
F01

I prefer this 3/32” white bead for the iron sighted rifles I use. They’re large medium and large caliber DGRs with all shots, except rarely within 40 yds. Exception was about 55 yds x2 and the bead proved perfect.

Tried the fiber optic for a while til it broke - too flimsy for the real world of branches and boulders meeting muzzles unexpectedly in the real world IME.

I like and have an NECG sourdough Patridge brass insert on a 458 Win with a rear peep. Works well and very visible. Also have an old NECG FS with a large fold down larger bead over smaller ‘fine’ bead on an older 416 Rem Mag which seemed like a good idea at the time. The more I’ve hunted up close-in to DG, the more I’ve gravitated to sights fixed in place stoutly sans gimmicks. Less chance for wrong gimmick in place at the right time.

My preference really runs to simple, rugged, visible fronts and rears like the ones on the Ruger Hawkeye African and Alaskan, with the NECG white bead replacement insert.

Great info on the jeweler's saw, never tried that, might do it.
Sir Dennis's XS with peep and the gold Elmer-Elevation inlays with a flat-top-square notch sound great too.





That take-off barrel is buried in storage.
It would be an effort to dig it out for a photo of the little, filed and painted sourdough on that high ramp.
I might need to go through all my boxes of take-off barrels one day to look at beads.

AH HA !
Another fiber optic dissident ! Intelligent man you are.
Thank you Sir Khulu, latest Knight of the Square Table.

Hooray. Another one is coming together.



Sort of Westley Richards-ish ramp placement on this .458 WinMag on an FN action.
I like it.
Gold patridge or WOW ... mostly use a scope, can go with either, depends on rear sight for decoration,
peep works with either for me.

Appreciate all the lively discussion. I decided on brass bead in larger size. I figure i can always paint it white if needed.