Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Israel and their current place in God’s economy.

If you don't mind maybe you would explain why you think I use the King James Bible, please.

Sorry, man. The Subject is Jesus. Anyone who knows the Subject of His conversation knows we are posting about God.

I am trying to figure out what you are saying here. It's not clear to me.

Hastings.

Do you never tire of playing with them, I mean playing them? You certainly go for the long game.

You don't have a clue.

Do something about the state of your own nation. Oh wait, being clueless you can't do a thing, so like a little pimple faced Ponce you are left to whine about conditions in Australia, of which you know virtually nothing.

RHClark,

Second request, would you explain why you think I use the King James Bible, please.

FIFT (Fixed It For Thee) 😉

Thanks, man. I need a lot of help.

I thinketh not 😀

My old elderly great aunt told me "if it was good enough for Jesus it was good enough for her".

One thing I really like about King James is that he was anti tobacco.

Is the nation of Israel that has existed since 1948 the same Israel that was guided by God throughout the OT…? There’s a firm allegiance that many people have…a lotta Christians in particular…to the belief that the nation of Israel of today remains God’s chosen people.

Many Christians, and many others, believe that the Israel of today…the one founded in 1948…continues to have a special status with God. And they believe that to be against Israel…for any reason…means to be against God, despite their (mostly) strong detestation of Jesus. Are they still the “chosen” people of Yahweh…?

Does it smell right ~ that those (mostly) who flat out detest Jesus can still be divinely cherished…? Is it possible that people…including many mainline evangelicals…are drinking the Kool-Aid of Christian Zionism…?

Does the nation of Israel…just like all of the nations of the world…need Jesus, the risen Savior…? Is salvation possible apart from Jesus…? As things stand, does the rejection of Jesus result in an eternity apart from God…? Does the view that people…whether Jews or Gentiles…who outright reject the Son of God, and still be saved a fallacy or not…?

Is it possible, or even probable, that many people…and especially many Christians…have accepted a false bill of goods about the nation of Israel today and their current place in God’s economy…?

Can it be that the people of Israel nowadays are the same as every other group of human beings on the earth…the same as you and me…in the sense that they are fallen and in need of salvation…? Can it be that the only “chosen” people are the ones who follow the Chosen One, who is Jesus…?

Those are questions I struggle with today.

There's still that blasted 144,000 who have to be considered. They're all Jews and they'll be sealed to God, whatever that means. There's still an antichrist who will sit in the temple which doesn't exist yet. It has to be built on Temple Mount and that will infuriate the world's Muslims. There's still Armageddon to come when all the world is against Israel and Jesus himself returns to defeat them.
All of this will happen in Israel and it's part of God's plan for them. You do NOT want to be part of any effort to defeat God's plan. When Jesus returns, his angels will sweep across the earth taking out any and all who support a defeat of Israel. God's way are not our ways.

The Abrahamic Mind Virus is a plague.

Eph 1:11 .... In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will

Jesus' death was preordained by God and aligned with His will. Without the Cross, we would be without any hope whatsoever.

Is it possible that a great many people, especially Christians, are interpreting the Revelation in a way that is different from what really is…?

A not insignificant number of people, especially Christians, think that most of the prophecies in the Revelation were fulfilled not long after John wrote em.’ The Revelation opens and closes with declarations indicating that the things revealed in the book “must soon take place.” It also opens and closes with declarations indicating that “the time is near.”

These folks see the Revelation having a direct relevance to the real historical first century churches to whom it was addressed, and that the text of the book itself points to the imminent fulfillment of most of its prophecies.

Are they wrong…?

So you think Jews detest Jesus ? Do you detest Mohamed ? What is the difference?

I would encourage you to read Josephus. I’ve come around to the point of view lately that much of those prophecies were fulfilled 2000 years ago with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

- A temple was already rebuilt from the time when that prophecy was made. An Anti-Christ already entered the Holy of Holies in the form of Titus, who would become the Emperor. Titus also erected statues and banners to his father, Emperor Vespasian. The emperor at that time was divine and styled in Roman usage and coinage as “The Son of God.”

- These events happened in 70 A.D. and were prophesied by Jesus when he spoke of the End of the Age. It was the end of the Age of the Temple and sacrifice and the beginning of the new covenant with the church. It also occurred “before this generation passes” a told by Jesus to his disciples.

-Jesus had told of the need to flee when they saw the abomination of the desolation standing in the holy of holies. Apparently in their long war putting down the Jewish Revolt the Romans had retreated or moved their armies away from Jerusalem. Many thought it was safe. Then the Romans reversed course. During Passover people in Jerusalem essentially woke up one morning to find that during the night they had been surrounded by a Roman army of about 60,000. The surprise was complete except for those Christians and others who had heeded Jesus’ words and already fled. It might be that a significant number of Jews realized Jesus was telling the truth at that time, converted, and were saved. Anyway, based on the number of sacrifices they counted, the Romans calculated there were 2.2 million people in the city from all over Judea when Jerusalem was surrounded. The vast majority of them were killed or sold into slavery.

-Josephus also talked about a lot of supernatural stuff going on during the siege. There were chariots aplearing in the sky, apparent battles in the sky, trumpets in the sky and all sorts of stuff. Apparently some Christians at the time interpreted these events as s type of return of Jesus.

-And of course, not a stone of the Temple was left standing as Jesus had foretold.

-Another thing that is missed sometimes is how complete the Roman destruction of the Jews was. In the first revolt talked about above, they eliminated what were possibly millions of Jews. Then anther revolt a few years later was made by Jews across the empire and they were killed. Then the Bar Khokba revolt around 135 A.D. saw up to 400,000 of the Jews left in Judea killed and/or enslaved. And the Jewish religion did not survive. Old Testament Judism was about the Temple and sacrifices. After the destruction of the Temple it had to be reinvented. After the 135 AD revolt, Jews were forbidden from even entering a much diminished Jerusalem. The Talmudic Judism that emerged bore almost no resemblance to Old Testament Judism.

It's only been a couple of days since then...
2 Peter 3:8 But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

There's a lot of debate among Biblical scholars on whether Rev was written before or after 70AD. Many think is was around 90 to 95. That would put much of it in the future.

I think that what you (JoeBob) say in your post above should certainly be at least considered as possibly what really is. Based upon Josephus’ historical writings, in addition to what history tells us about the absolute destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, this was all a HUGE series of events lasting years. Life-changing for the entirety of the ancient Israelites. Certainly big enough that it would have been mentioned by the historical writers of the New Testament if any of it had happened prior to those historical documents having been written.

I think that it can be argued persuasively that all of the books of the New Testament…in addition to nearly all of the events that they describe (including the Revelation)…happened before 70 AD ~ before the Temple and Jerusalem was completely destroyed.

Should this viewpoint at least be considered…?