Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre '64 .243 Win Standard Wt Valuation?

I'll see that .243 Fwt value question and cast my own 243 Standard Weight valuation request! She's of 1959, appears all original happily with about 95 percent condition. Bore is great. I know a fair amount about the rifle genre itself but am 'lost in space of 'good old days' perspective valuation! No immediate plans to sell, but seeking a "collector value" versus field gun if differential. Pix below.
Appreciate opinions.
Thanks & Best!
John

I thought you were the "expert"??? I just saw one like that sell today for $1,800.00 roughly. It was about 98% condition and all original. As you know, the standards are harder to find in this chambering than the fwt models. Yours is not quite as desirable as a pre '58, but still very nice. I'm assuming it has the composite butt plate? As some of us know, prices on the pre 64 model 70's are going down a little. As compared to about 2-3 years ago. Well, some of us know that. Yours is nice John. What do you think it's worth?

Sounds reasonable to me, it is a nice rifle. I love mine and would not part with it for that, but the wood on mine is extraordinary. Dark, hand checkered, lots of striping and figure.

A standard weight just went on sale at GI, curious 243 and 308 featherweight and 243 standard weight exactly what is being asked here. Pricing seems very reasonable wouldnt think they would last long

The GI gun was priced exceptionally well.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...le-unfired-original.cfm?gun_id=102296701

Before pre-64 M70’s became de rigueur here on the ‘fire purchased a 95%+ .243 Standard Rifle for $1,000 shipped in the Classifieds. As I recall it languished there for a day or two.

Lucky!

I know where that one went..

refinished stock.

On which?

Maybe on the OP's. Pics are kind of crappy.. Hard to say for sure.

Good snag!!

That "recent" Web reference above, a beauty! The bluing on the bottom metal doesn't look right, but perhaps the camera, lighting or most likely "Shopped" as in retouched for whatever reason. It looks more like "new" blue-black featherweight alloy. To my own aged eyes!

My above rifle wasn't on the top of my Model 70 acquisition 'hit parade' as making it mine. I would have preferred such in .308, but the rifle 'happening' as in font of me. Price & condition nice and that .243 chambering to my experience in that early nineties era, "uncommon" in SWt.
BSA, the butt plate is steel. Yet era correct parameters and more desirable than plastic. I'm happier with steel & for me a few positive 'clicks'!
Far as expertise... No. Advanced student, good with that. My question here carefully worded - I thought - simply asking valuation of the rifle as depicted since, as said not keeping up with pricing. No inference intended re "what it is".
Even pricing, Adding we live now in a world of such inflation, arising to any investment as speculation. My position on toilet paper "futures" as just "hunkered down"!!
Thanks to all for the commentaries.
Best!
John

Iskra: My two specimens of pre-64 Winchester Model 70 Standard Rifles are of the later era (564,XXX & 523,XXX) but they are both in pristine condition.
I would not sell either of mine for $1,800.00.
Did you mean to say "sixties era" in your just above post NOT "nineties era"?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

You are correct. The steel butt plate specimen is generally more desirable. However, one with a refinished stock, is not as desirable. Flip a coin there. Someone said the stock was refinished. Now, there were 2 rifles posted in this thread and that guy did not specify which one he was referring to. However, Yours would appear to be along those lines, as the composite butt plate rifle does not appear to be. Based on the pictures I have seen. Again, as we all know. Good pictures are required for a full assessment. You know how that works. Even though you are not looking for a full evaluation of the rifle, that is the only way you are going to get an honest assessment of value. Just how the cookie crumbles. What was posted is an honest comparison, and I believe the composite butt plate rifle is worth more than the one you pictured. Honestly, it's in much better condition. And as we know, condition and originality is everything. You can always ask your buddies in the other Winchester internet forums. Maybe see what they say?

BSA- when I get the .243 standard in the link above I’ll shoot you some pictures of the bottom metal

Robert, my words above as speculation only and based on instant eval. No great analytic product! BSA regarding my .243 Standard Model 70, I'd concur that the stock looks too shiny for original in the pix. I frankly haven't paid much attention to it. The subject matter only drawn out as conjuring the prior post re "Featherweight" .243. Regardless of the bottom metal question, you hit the nail on the head re an outsized question weighing in more heavily than butt plate materials. That rifle isn't convenient to whisk out for hands on eval and the pix I use for all purposes here are from a cheap camera with only intent, to document for insurance and my own research purposes. Any use for "prime time' materials, then purely coincidental!
Nuff said, I bow to your observation as entirely valid and 'on point'! When eventually an item for sale, a buyer can view & construe!

I do appreciate the estimates derived from folks here as generalization. Guns despite wild price deviations are a relative "steady state universe" compared to many "staid, conservative" investments of past decades as now - such as bank failures and bond holders involved! A 'different planet'!
Best & hope no readers here are in any "Hedge Funds or Bitcoin-esque adventures!
John

Any way to date a standard 243 Mod pre64 barrel?

Just the barrel?
Winchester discontinued the under barrel date stamp in 1956, 243 Standard rifles were first catalogued in 1955, but who knows? If its still in the stock one could narrow it down a bit, pretty difficult to get a definitive date

The barrel did not come with the receiver and the receiver is a 1956 model.
I'm definitely not a Winchester guy. Were some finished in rust blue or the high gloss blue?

Any rust blued would be Super Grades. They may or may not have Super Grade markings. The front sight ramp is an indicator. I think all 243 had soldered ramps. Stippled, 14 serrations 18 serrations, etc.

The word is Striations (lines) 14 would be common on 1955-1957. 18 would be from approx 410000 serial number range. There are a couple of experimental ramps used from 55-57 as well, starting at 325000 serial number.

What do you have?

The one that I bought from your buddy. Stippled and shiney blue.

When your brother contacted me regarding that rifle, everything looked great. Was there an issue with the bottom metal we couldn’t see? I also like the fwt model your brother bought. You guys will have to let me know how those rifles shoot. Thanks!!

To butchlambert:

That is a possibility as original to 1956. The 18 Striation version would definitely not be original to 1956. No date puts it @ 1956 or later. The Stippling was used from 243 introduction to 1955. Plus Rule lists a few experimentals 55-57 and specifically lists a Stippled version used sporadically from serial 325000 in 1955 until 410000 in 1957.

that is nice per-64, stock has been refinished as others have posted ,$1500.00 - $2,000.00 is the retail value . good luck,Pete53

Not that I know of. I should have it next week and will report back

Ok, just wondering why you were going to send pics of the bottom metal?

After pulling my head from my arse, and checking my reading comprehension. I see where I was mistaken.

I thought you and iskra were agreeing that the bottom metal on the linked rifle looked off. I now see I was mistaken!

Iskra raised the question on the Guns International 243 floor plate color.

For those commenting that Iskra’s stock looks refinished, with the quality of photo, what are you basing that on?

i own 10 pre-64 model 70`s none have that shiny of a finish but the rifle is still a dandy to buy.

Some disjointed response comments from above, not necessarily in order.

A point of order on Winchester 70 "dating". First, that serialization number via best source "Polishing Room" data, may widely differ from he barrel date found in under stock breech area. "Barrel date" reflects when the barrel manufacture was completed. Assembled quickly or shelved for a decade or more! Factually some rare chambered Model 70 rifles with SNs in early Postwar and barrels dated prewar! An period known as "Barrel Cleanup era" as Winchester disposed of old prewar stock barrels creating legit "Factory new rifles!" such as my 55xxx SN Model 70 Carbine in 7mm.

Model 70 receivers were not built out in sequential order and may vary in terms of calendar year dating's to such as intro of chambering! I don't doubt there were factually some prewar dated receivers not built out until postwar too. The situation is "collector presumption" as being pretty rigid. We know for instance that the Factory did make custom accommodations such as D&T scope holes before production line reality. But collectors work on probability theory and simply disdain to accord a probability factor. If it's not of "known" production factory features", it's fatally "Non-original! Case closed & I agree with that! Credible "Provenance" the only exception... Maybe! Custom "group orders" as documented such as the Gopher Shooter Supply "barrel sights delete" are such exceptions forming "Class" of variation.

Concerning blue, the dull blue prevailed in the late forties forward to my knowledge. Prior a deeper 'higher polish' blue but "Custom Shop plus... "Your experience may have varied." I'd check "The Good Book: Rifleman's rifle if I could just find it!

Varmint Guy: I intentionally stated "nineties era", reflecting when I acquired the rifle. Sorry if any lack of clarity and thanks for the opportunity for me to make clear.

I've added yet another question to a growing list "pending getting to my guns with time to review". Or fate what it is, my Estate, if to give a "S**t!

Thanks to all contributors here, I'ts been fun! Let's do it again soon! Just 'other subject perhaps!'

Best!
John

Ok my friend. I was wondering what may have been the issue. Everything on that rifle looks original to me. Great score!!

Don't be getting your panties in a bunch. You want me to start a thread on some rifles I just bought? The std wt is all original, except for the stock. It happens man, but I only paid $700 for it, with the Leupold on top.. Just how the cookie crumbles. I need to take the girlfriend out to dinner, but you guys are more than welcome to tear this one apart, while I'm out and about. Just got home, so things have been busy!!!!! Doesn't have the original 22G 3C rear sight, and the sling swivels have been chromed!!! It also has a trigger shoe I'll be removing when I get some time.




It's a 1953 270 win, though not a 243. The last 243 fwt (had 2 to pick from) I had in hand was $800.00 and all original. Still kicking myself in the azz for not buying either one of those!!!!!

BSA, I will throw a few things about that gun. Pure late 1960's look! I generally don't like a high gloss finish on wood but that color and grade wood looks very nice shined up! Looks like a Weatherby Mark V or one of those high end guns out of Japan. If it was mine I would change the recoil pad for two reasons. I don't like how they didn't continue with the toe line. Plus the pad shows signs of aging much more than the rest of the gun. I would lose the chrome bits too. I would be proud to hunt with that gun.

Is that a trigger shoe or a Canjar Single Set? Either way I prefer plain old M70 Win triggers, but a Canjar Single Set is a good trigger and worth a few bucks!

Thanks Mike. I agree on all accounts. Yeah, I will probably replace the pad with a red pachmayr. However, there is still some life left in this one. The rifle fits me very well and the stock feels great in the hands. Generally I like to hunt my fwt's or lightweight magnums, but this stock fits me like a glove. It also does not have the dreaded roll over cheek piece, that I don't like. It sure does look 70's Weatherby style to me as well. It is very shiny/glossy. My first thoughts were to remove that from the checkering, at least, but I don't know if I want to bother with it? It's functional, as is. I was working on it today, cleaning it up. But it did not need much cleaning up at all. The more I looked at the bluing and the bolt face and crown, the more I think it was not fired much at all. Here are some more pics from today, after I installed my preferred scope mounts. I had an old gloss Leupold Vari-x IIc 3-9X40 laying around, so I replaced the M8 6x. I also did like you said and replaced the chrome plated sling swivels to something more useable:



Something is not quite right with this matte finished front sight hood too. It does not fit as well as others I've had, and the other ones I have are more of a polished blue finish. I ordered 2 hoods today, and will possibly use this one on my new to me fwt. As most of that rifle is matte finished.







The rifling looks excellent too, so I'm thinking it's going to shoot very well. I also looked at my Rules book and in 1952, they used a Marbles 69 sight. This is a 1953 rifle, and I did not see which sight it uses. My best guess is a marbles 69 (which it appears to have), or a Lyman 16B. So my first inclination was wrong. I figured it would have used a 22G 3C.. Again, any comments are welcome. Hopefully it's not cluttering the OP's thread!!! Thanks!

You guys seen many of the Heavy Barrel P64 243s? Any ideas what they’re going for, for a clean one?

I saw some on gunsinternational a while back. Prices ranged from $1,600 -$6,000+. Depends on condition and who is selling it. I just looked and found one in rough condition, with a long target scope on it for $2,295.00. They list it as "90%" condition, but it appears to be much worse to me. If you are looking for a real clean one, I'd probably expect to pay around $2,800.00. Perry county had one listed at around $1,600.00 and they said it was "95%" condition. It was in less condition than that, and also had a really thin butt plate installed. Condition and lack of originality deemed it a $1,600.00 rifle. I'm assuming you are asking about the varmint model, and not the target model??

Yup. Varmint model.

hey BSA, you did really well on that 270 - congrats !
And while stock isn't original, I don't know if I would change it - that's a nice "working" rifle.

Thanks stealthgoat. I don't know about you guys, but it seems like every time I see a 270, it is over $1,100.00. I run across good 30-06's all the time. I'm thinking I'll just leave this 270 as is, like you said it's a good working rifle. Now I wish I would not have sold all of my 150gr Nosler partitions!!!

I was just looking at Leupold M8 6x scopes on ebay and the first one I saw was at $250 and some buy it now prices from $329-$450.00+. Dang, I did not realize the straight powered scopes were selling for that much!!