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Campfire Ranger
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OP
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Absolutely Gorgeous Congrats on the find and purchase.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thanks for posting Shrapnel! I can only dream of owning a beauty like that
Charter Member Ancient order of the 1895 Winchester
"It's an insecure and petite man who demands all others like what he likes and dislike what he dislikes." szihn
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Outstanding!! I must confess I’m not very familiar with cartridges for the 1886. Which cartridge is your 50 caliber 1886 chambered for?
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Outstanding!! I must confess I’m not very familiar with cartridges for the 1886. Which cartridge is your 50 caliber 1886 chambered for? 50-100-450. The bigger brother to the 50-110. It is made to shoot the heavier 450 grain bullet. This is it on the right compared to the 50-70 Sharps, the 50-95 or 50 Express…
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
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You suck! 😁
That is really something!
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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A real buffalo cartridge! Thanks for the info.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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That's a beauty!
Did you find that at the collectors show?
What year manufacture?
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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That's a beauty!
Did you find that at the collectors show?
What year manufacture? It was made in 1896, and I found it when a guy walking through the gun show where I had some nice original 1876 Winchester rifles on display, stopped and asked if I would be interested in a 50 caliber Winchester he had. I told him I was interested and in a few weeks I was the new owner..
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went" Will Rogers
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Thank you for the Reply!
It's been well loved and cared for, for nearly 130 years, Amazing!
"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them. You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain like the features of a friend." Isak Dinesen
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 17,784 Likes: 1 |
Awesome rifle! Thanks for sharing..
Molon Labe
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Very well designed buttstock for shooting with iron sights. What a great find!
Enjoy it.
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry
Deus vult!
Rhodesians all now
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Wow! I have no words to describe how impressed I am with your latest! Congratulations! By the way…..beautiful photos also! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Great gun. Beautiful, rare, original. Congrats on the investment in a shazam shooter !
Hoyem says it used a .512" bullet, 2.4" case length for .50-100-450 specimen ammo with lead bullet.
Giles & Shuey, pg. 158: "Presumably designed for the African market, this largest of the lever-gun calibers never caught on here in the U.S. or abroad. A black powder cartridge coming into the market as it did in 1895 was virtually obsolete at birth. By the time it was offered in smokeless powder and jacketed bullets (1898), the world was rapidly changing to lighter smaller calibers in modern 'bottle-necked' cases. And while the .50-100-450 ammunition was last loaded in 1916 and cataloged until 1920, it had essentially disappeared by 1910 by which time production of the rifles had all but ceased. The last catalog in which M86s were listed in that caliber was June 1910; in 15 years on the market, the total number of guns shipped in 50-100-450 totaled a mere 331. It is no wonder, then that cartridge boxes are very difficult to find in this rather obscure but very collectible caliber." An empty 20-cartridge box circa 1898 with the "Winchester smokeless sunburst" on it might go for $2500 to a collector.
Williamson said he paid $12,000 for a 50-100-450 M86 takedown (pre-1984 dollars). He said his barrel slugged .5095" in groove and had a 1:54" twist. But he also claimed his rifle was made in 1890, which does not jive with Giles & Shuey ... ? 2.405" max brass length, 0.610" rim diameter and 0.070" rim thickness. He made brass for it by blowing out .348 WCF brass but had to machine the headstamp off the brass to chamber the ammo in the tight headspace for the rim. He shot 450-gr Barnes jacketed bullets 55.0 gr IMR-3031: 1456 fps 65.0 gr IMR-3031: 1765 fps with tissue paper over-powder wad (115.6 gr water case capacity), from whatever full-length octagon barrel length was on the rifle, at 90*F.
Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary .458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
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Great gun. Beautiful, rare, original. Congrats on the investment in a shazam shooter !
Hoyem says it used a .512" bullet, 2.4" case length for .50-100-450 specimen ammo with lead bullet.
Giles & Shuey, pg. 158: "Presumably designed for the African market, this largest of the lever-gun calibers never caught on here in the U.S. or abroad. A black powder cartridge coming into the market as it did in 1895 was virtually obsolete at birth. By the time it was offered in smokeless powder and jacketed bullets (1898), the world was rapidly changing to lighter smaller calibers in modern 'bottle-necked' cases. And while the .50-100-450 ammunition was last loaded in 1916 and cataloged until 1920, it had essentially disappeared by 1910 by which time production of the rifles had all but ceased. The last catalog in which M86s were listed in that caliber was June 1910; in 15 years on the market, the total number of guns shipped in 50-100-450 totaled a mere 331. It is no wonder, then that cartridge boxes are very difficult to find in this rather obscure but very collectible caliber." An empty 20-cartridge box circa 1898 with the "Winchester smokeless sunburst" on it might go for $2500 to a collector.
Williamson said he paid $12,000 for a 50-100-450 M86 takedown (pre-1984 dollars). He said his barrel slugged .5095" in groove and had a 1:54" twist. But he also claimed his rifle was made in 1890, which does not jive with Giles & Shuey ... ? 2.405" max brass length, 0.610" rim diameter and 0.070" rim thickness. He made brass for it by blowing out .348 WCF brass but had to machine the headstamp off the brass to chamber the ammo in the tight headspace for the rim. He shot 450-gr Barnes jacketed bullets 55.0 gr IMR-3031: 1456 fps 65.0 gr IMR-3031: 1765 fps with tissue paper over-powder wad (115.6 gr water case capacity), from whatever full-length octagon barrel length was on the rifle, at 90*F. I have no idea how much pressure those loads are generating. I got some Buffalo Arms ammunition with the gun. They were loaded with 60 grains of what looked like IMR 3031. I would never shoot that in an old rifle such as this, it isn’t nickel steel. I copied Mike Venturino’s load from his Lever Gun book of 40 grains of 5744 and a 300 grain gas check bullet. It shoots well and I am now getting a bullet mould made to reproduce that same bullet. My original cast bullets are the top 2, the copies are the bottom 2. This guy know how to make a bullet mould…
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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That bullet looks like an NEI mold I have. Weighs a little over 300 grains. I’ve sized them to .501 and shoot them in my 500 lever rifles. They shoot very well. Your 86 is an incredible piece of work.
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
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Collectors Firearms in Houston has one in .50 Express at the moment - it's not as nice as that one, however!
"...the designer of the .270 Ingwe cartridge!..."
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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That bullet looks like an NEI mold I have. Weighs a little over 300 grains. I’ve sized them to .501 and shoot them in my 500 lever rifles. They shoot very well. Your 86 is an incredible piece of work. It is an NEI mould. I borrowed it from Mike Venturino and cast up a bunch of bullets before he sold it with the gun. It weighs 315 grains with wheel weight lead. I size mine at .512 for all my 50 caliber guns: 50-70 50-95 50-100-450
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Campfire Member
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Campfire Member
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I am in love with this gun. There is something magical about large bore lever guns.
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Wow!! That is simply gorgeous! Excellent snag.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Beautiful rifle there Shrapnel……Thanks for sharing another beauty with us!
I’m sure that I’m not the only one a bit envious of your rifles! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,938 Likes: 1 |
Absolutely beautiful rifle
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,346
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,346 |
A beautiful rifle Sir! I picked up an 1886 in 40-65 at the Shilen Swap meet. I'm forming brass from 45-70 brass as I only received 5 original pieces of brass.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,550 |
WOW! I'm a little late to the party on this one, but WOW! What a ball buster! PG, Shotgun butt, 1/2oct short barrel, Tang sight, short mag, Case hard, deluxe XXX+wood, checkered, AND MORE, AND 50Cal! What a dandy little rifle! What is the barrel length? I just love that rifle! Congratulations, Schrap.
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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That rifle is one of the most moxie-wicked rifles ever here on the 'Fire'.
Congratulations.
Keep us tuned in on it, I can live vicariously.
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Posts: 5,681 Likes: 4
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2004
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Nice rare '86. You didn't mention a letter for it. That short barrel is kinda weird. Would a letter maybe document it. The letter for my 1886 doesn't mention length. I think it said something like Standard round barrel. inferring a 26" barrel. I'm sure your rifle is a one of one made.
Figures don't lie, But Liars figure Assumption is the mother of mistakes
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
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Nice rare '86. You didn't mention a letter for it. That short barrel is kinda weird. Would a letter maybe document it. The letter for my 1886 doesn't mention length. I think it said something like Standard round barrel. inferring a 26" barrel. I'm sure your rifle is a one of one made. It is one of one. Not only due to rare caliber, but 14 special order features…
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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That is awesome! Congratulations!
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Joined: Nov 2022
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2022
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I was doing some surfing looking at rifles & I saw a .50 caliber Winchester 1886 up for auction & thought "Hey that's the longer version of shrapnel's rifle". I wonder how much of the estimated price is because of the rifle & how much is because it was Tom Selleck's. That's a nice-looking rifle. It was kind of interesting comparing the two letters to see how they differed. I flipped through a couple of more pages & they also had a wrist slide-action Burgess listed too. Again, shrapnel's grouse gun. It was just an interesting coincidence that they had my two favorite unique rifles that the OP had shared recently in the same auction.
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