My neighbor asked me about making my own bullets. He has lead for sale. Sounds like he wants to sell it, and was wondering about the "worth". What's a pound of soft lead going for?? Thanks.
If you hunt with your kids. You should not have to hunt for your kids.
I've been successful at finding it for less than a buck a pound, but that's still reasonable. Certainly wouldn't pay more than that. Better stock up now while no one's really paying any attention.
Understand , soft lead by itself is too soft for handgun or rifle bullets. Except muzzle loaders. Soft or pure lead needs to be alloyed with something harder like tin or antimony.
A while back I ordered three 1lb sticks of pure tin and a 5 lb bar of "super hard" antimonial lead from Rotometals. I then went through an alloyed this with a bunch of pipe lead, and other scraps for my best attempt at a true Lyman #2 alloy. Recently I've found that only need about half of my Lyman ingots mixed with half unknown wheelweight lead and still get a hard enough alloy for rifle velocities. This isn't an exact science by any means, but I pay attention to make sure the desired alloying elements are present in a significant amount to make a difference.
Another proof is that the castings weigh what the mold manufacturer specified for that mold.
I've been racking my brain (no, honestly, I rack my brain like you rack a 1911 slide ) and can't remember ever actually paying money for soft "pure" lead. It's always been "hey, I've got a sh*tload of lead sheathing left over from a roofing job, ya want it?", or "hey, I found a huge pile of old diving weights", or "my Dad was a plumber and there's a pile of lead ingots in the garage I gotta get rid of- you want them?" Being an inveterate dog-robber/scrounger for lead all my life has left me sitting pretty. Just a couple months ago I found a dusty stack of eight soft lead bricks in the garage out back belonging to my 93 year old friend, each brick weighing around 60-70 pounds. He said "oh yeah, I remember them, they came out of a radiology lab. You want them?"
What I do buy is pure tin from Rotometals with which to make the simple binary alloys that I have gravitated to. I grit my teeth and curse whenever I pay the going rate for tin.
I, like everybody else, swam in clip-on wheelweights but those have nearly disappeared from the landscape. I still have a sinful amount of that stuff but rarely use it anymore, ditto the couple hundred pounds of type metal. I find that simple 1-10 tin-lead suffices nicely for rifle bullets in the 1600-1800fps range, which I rarely exceed anymore. When I make up a batch of alloy for 2000fps hunting bullets is when I dip into a little of the WW's or type metals. For pistol and single shot target rifle shooting 1:20/1:30/1:40 tin/lead alloys work beautifully - and a pound of tin goes a loooong way in those circumstances.
I got tired of predicting the hardness shifting over time of tertiary alloys containing antimony. That plus waking up to the fact that super hard alloys simply aren't needed for the shooting I do.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Understand , soft lead by itself is too soft for handgun or rifle bullets. Except muzzle loaders. Soft or pure lead needs to be alloyed with something harder like tin or antimony.
This was reinforced yesterday I cast some bullets for my 30-06. The pot was running low so I threw in an ingot of unknown lead and kept going. When I seated gas checks on the bullet they were so soft that some deformed so badly that I threw them back in the pot (along with a handful of wheel weights to harden the next batch a bit!)
"Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." Psalm 37, verse 4.
"The lazy do not roast any game, but the diligent feed on the riches of the hunt." Proverbs 12:27
I find that simple 1-10 tin-lead suffices nicely for rifle bullets in the 1600-1800fps range, which I rarely exceed anymore. When I make up a batch of alloy for 2000fps hunting bullets is when I dip into a little of the WW's or type metals. For pistol and single shot target rifle shooting 1:20/1:30/1:40 tin/lead alloys work beautifully - and a pound of tin goes a loooong way in those circumstances.
I got tired of predicting the hardness shifting over time of tertiary alloys containing antimony. That plus waking up to the fact that super hard alloys simply aren't needed for the shooting I do.
We're brothers from different mothers!
Isn't it amazing what a heavy (say 35 caliber) soft cast bullet will do at 1200-1800fps?
I have greatly reduced my need for linotype since I started powdercoating my bullets.
My casting mentor died several years ago and left a couple 2 or 3 tons of processed lead in his friend's garage. I helped his friend sell the bulk majority of that lead. He set aside "some ingots" for me. Saturday morning I'm making the trek up to Michigan to get this unknown amount of lead. All I know is what I've been told, "I hope you're bringing a truck!".
I'm sitting on a couple hundred pounds of processed lead already and I don't cast very often anymore. I cast several hundred pounds of bullets in 2020 and have hardly put a dent in them since.
Yeah, Dinny, I wish we were neighbors! Think of the trouble, er, fun we could get into! Good luck with the "haul".
I've always tried to codify the alloy content when mixing and matching stuff, mainly so that if it works good I can duplicate it in future for the same application. Keeping track (on paper or digitally) and marking the ingots somehow with the code recorded in your notes is easy and takes little time - and sure beats the heck out of scratching your head wondering whatinhell some ingots are composed of after time passes.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
I have lead and alloy "fixin's" out the wazoo but not as much as some folks do if internet pics are to be believed. I'm always alert for more because ya just don't know what the future holds in store....
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
The difference between paying a buck a pound for mystery lead and 2-3 bucks a pound for clip-on wheel weights or even a bit more for suitable, known alloy is pretty insignificant. I know I can get hundreds of dollars worth of pissed off having to mess around trying to bring a bunch of junk lead up snuff.
I have had pretty good luck with clean, processed range lead and even better luck with clip-on wheel weights when casting for practice and plinking loads. Investing in the proper alloy from a reputable source makes a great deal of sense for any loads where quality and consistency matters.
Built my sailboat using clip-on wheel weights picked up from local tire stores .... some 7000# through a small plumbers pot takes time & patience but was suprisingly cheap and available when I did this back in the '70's. Not so today.
Take a pass on the mystery lead if consistency and quality is important to you.
Contacted my deceased friend's widow next door a few days ago to see about acquiring a bunch of bullet metal I helped him alloy six or seven years ago. The guy bought everything he needed to get started in casting back then but true to form, never did a thing with it. He just liked having all the stuff for hunting, reloading, casting, all of it...but he just didn't participate much at all.
It turned out there was about 360 pounds all together---a lot more than I thought he had. I think I now have somewhere between 600 to 700 pounds on hand. I intend to realloy all of it so that I have one single alloy on hand and concentrate on getting it as clean as possible. That little project along should keep me off the streets for a few days.
This should keep me casting for a few years. I intend to wear out a few handguns over the next ten years or so.
Don't be the darkness.
America will perish while those who should be standing guard are satisfying their lusts.
I've been racking my brain (no, honestly, I rack my brain like you rack a 1911 slide ) and can't remember ever actually paying money for soft "pure" lead. It's always been "hey, I've got a sh*tload of lead sheathing left over from a roofing job, ya want it?", or "hey, I found a huge pile of old diving weights", or "my Dad was a plumber and there's a pile of lead ingots in the garage I gotta get rid of- you want them?" Being an inveterate dog-robber/scrounger for lead all my life has left me sitting pretty. Just a couple months ago I found a dusty stack of eight soft lead bricks in the garage out back belonging to my 93 year old friend, each brick weighing around 60-70 pounds. He said "oh yeah, I remember them, they came out of a radiology lab. You want them?"
What I do buy is pure tin from Rotometals with which to make the simple binary alloys that I have gravitated to. I grit my teeth and curse whenever I pay the going rate for tin.
I, like everybody else, swam in clip-on wheelweights but those have nearly disappeared from the landscape. I still have a sinful amount of that stuff but rarely use it anymore, ditto the couple hundred pounds of type metal. I find that simple 1-10 tin-lead suffices nicely for rifle bullets in the 1600-1800fps range, which I rarely exceed anymore. When I make up a batch of alloy for 2000fps hunting bullets is when I dip into a little of the WW's or type metals. For pistol and single shot target rifle shooting 1:20/1:30/1:40 tin/lead alloys work beautifully - and a pound of tin goes a loooong way in those circumstances.
I got tired of predicting the hardness shifting over time of tertiary alloys containing antimony. That plus waking up to the fact that super hard alloys simply aren't needed for the shooting I do.
I like the idea of blending pure tin with pure lead but it seems very expensive to me. Maybe I'm understanding the ratio wrong. When you say 1:10 you mean 1 pound of tin for every 10 pounds of lead correct? So of you're $1/pound for lead and $30/pound for tin you'd have $40 into 11 pounds of alloy. I used over 120 pounds in 2 days of casting last month.
I have hundreds of pounds of tin rich monotype that I picked from an old printer. I wish it had less antimony but I do ok always blending just a bit of it with softer allows like some ww and bullet company scraps.
I wish I had a source for pure lead at a reasonable price. The local scrap yard said they'd give me 3 cents a pound for lead scrap if I brought it in but they want to sell there's to.me for $4 a pound. That's pretty good mark up for them. I'd gladly pay $1 a pound for pure clean lead but not $4. I told the scrap yard I can buy new bird shot for $2.40 a pound.
I source tin anywhere I can find it, including Rotometals who sells it for around $30/pound. I'm not rich by any means and sometimes I bite the bullet and pay the going rate because it's important to me (in terms of creating exactly repeatable results instead of guessing every time I sit down to cast bullets). Suffice to say I sacrifice in other areas of my life in order to do the stuff that I really live for. I ain't getting any younger, and a man has to focus on priorities when he hits 70!
That said, one of the fun aspects to this game (for me anyway) is the intrepid searching for lead and its fixin's. Use your head and think outside the box a bit. For example I was one of the first to scrounge up pewter for the purposes of lead alloying (it's basically tin). I was scarfing the stuff up at flea markets long before there was "internet chatter" about using it. Old stocks of 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 lead/tin solder is another great source for tin as building codes, EPA, and all the control freaks believe it to be instant death to solder copper water pipes with it anymore - resulting in lots of it tucked away gathering dust in cellars and garages.
One last example: a couple years ago a fella offered to give me a pickup truck load of old pipe organ pipes. Most of them were weird looking with a mottled surface finish. Upon investigation I learned that organ pipes were made of something called "spotted metal", hence the appearance. Included in that revelation was the fact that "spotted metal" is nothing more than 50% lead and 50% tin. Yippee, a couple hundred pounds of tin, pre-mixed with lead and all! (The mottled surface finish is somehow incurred in the rolling/forming process of making the pipes. You now know as much as I do!) There may well be some other trace elements in it, I'm not 100% sure, but it behaves exactly like its tin/lead content is 50/50 judging from bullets cast from it as a base for alloying compared to bullets cast from absolutely known pure tin/lead. All for free.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Who'd a-thunk it. I checked just now and Walmart does sell it, for $50 for one pound ingot. Checked Rotometals too and their price is exactly half that. I guess Walmart likes a profit!
Muffin, what's your go-to tin/lead alloy for your large-ish paper patched bullets? Do any out of straight lead?
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Who'd a-thunk it. I checked just now and Walmart does sell it, for $50 for one pound ingot. Checked Rotometals too and their price is exactly half that. I guess Walmart likes a profit!
Muffin, what's your go-to tin/lead alloy for your large-ish paper patched bullets? Do any out of straight lead?
Gnoahh. Last price I paid was$32, with free shopping. You sure that's not a 2# ingot.
Those in the picture were 450 and 500grain pure lead... the dimples on the bottom of the skirt caused by powder kernals..
1600fps is a bit stout out of a marlin.
The beauty of the PP, is the rifle doesn't much care what the alloy is.
WW work just fine too.
"...A man's rights rest in three boxes: the ballot box, the jury box and the cartridge box..." Frederick Douglass, 1867
Ahhh. When I looked the description I read was misleading. The header said 2 pounds, the fine print said one pound. Oh well, guess I'll fetch from Walmart next time I buy any.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Rotometals is a ripoff. There's no reason why they're charging many times over market price or scrap yards are as well. It's a real scam. There's pallets of pure lead available from suppliers in China and India for proper priced but your purchasing a ton at a time.
Rotometals is a ripoff. There's no reason why they're charging many times over market price or scrap yards are as well. It's a real scam. There's pallets of pure lead available from suppliers in China and India for proper priced but your purchasing a ton at a time.
I just checked with a friend who orders certified pure lead by the ton. He's paying $2.50 a pound. He just got 2 pallets delivered. One was from Korea and one was from France. Both are certified pure but they're far from being identical.
Rotometals is a ripoff. There's no reason why they're charging many times over market price or scrap yards are as well. It's a real scam. There's pallets of pure lead available from suppliers in China and India for proper priced but your purchasing a ton at a time.
I just checked with a friend who orders certified pure lead by the ton. He's paying $2.50 a pound. He just got 2 pallets delivered. One was from Korea and one was from France. Both are certified pure but they're far from being identical.
That's insane. 150% markup over going market price.
Rotometals is a ripoff. There's no reason why they're charging many times over market price or scrap yards are as well. It's a real scam. There's pallets of pure lead available from suppliers in China and India for proper priced but your purchasing a ton at a time.
I just checked with a friend who orders certified pure lead by the ton. He's paying $2.50 a pound. He just got 2 pallets delivered. One was from Korea and one was from France. Both are certified pure but they're far from being identical.
That's insane. 150% markup over going market price.
I wonder how much was delivery fees. Can anyone answer my earlier question about the ratio of tin I good casting alloys. If I read correctly a 1:20 alloy has 1 pound of tin with 20 pounds of lead. Seems like an expensive mix with $30/pound tin. I also hear a lot of old timers tell me to get some tin solder and add a few inches of solder to my 20 pound pot of alloy. That doesn't seem like much tin at all.
I've just been adding some tin rich monotype I have to my other alloys. Sometimes 1 pound mono to 10 pounds ww. I do other variations until I find what I like but all have too much antimony.
That's what I do. As for cost, what isn't expensive these days? It ain't 1980 anymore. Besides, an intrepid scrounger can find tin a lot cheaper than $25-30/pound, re: my earlier post.
I started buying more certified pure tin in recent years not because I'm rich or a glutton for punishment but because I've become more anal about wanting exactly repeatable alloys. A pound of tin makes 30 pounds of bullets for my .32-40 schuetzen rifles. 30 pounds of bullets is still a lot of bullets no matter who you are, and since the chief cost is the tin (c'mon, you don't think I actually buy soft lead?!), it's still way cheaper than buying them - if anybody even sold them that is - and I know bloody well that the bullets I cast tomorrow will be exactly the same as the one's I cast last year and next year.
When using 50/50 solder just use one pound of it to 9.5 pounds of lead for a 1:20 alloy. Calculate poundage up or down accordingly.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
That's what I do. As for cost, what isn't expensive these days? It ain't 1980 anymore. Besides, an intrepid scrounger can find tin a lot cheaper than $25-30/pound, re: my earlier post.
I started buying more certified pure tin in recent years not because I'm rich or a glutton for punishment but because I've become more anal about wanting exactly repeatable alloys. A pound of tin makes 30 pounds of bullets for my .32-40 schuetzen rifles. 30 pounds of bullets is still a lot of bullets no matter who you are, and since the chief cost is the tin (c'mon, you don't think I actually buy soft lead?!), it's still way cheaper than buying them - if anybody even sold them that is - and I know bloody well that the bullets I cast tomorrow will be exactly the same as the one's I cast last year and next year.
When using 50/50 solder just use one pound of it to 9.5 pounds of lead for a 1:20 alloy. Calculate poundage up or down accordingly.
That answered my question on the ratio thing. As I thought, the guys who just add a few inches of fine gauge tin solder to the pot aren't doing much for their alloy. I'll keep my eye out for a cheaper source of tin. I saw some that looked like clippings from a heavy 2 or 4 gauge wire that looked easy to work with but it was still about $26/pound.
I need to find a source for good clean lead too. I have a much of mono/lino pigs and a decent supply of ww. I've also been buying scrap from a bullet co that's mostly lead and fairly soft at about 10bhn. It casts really well with a bit of ww and mono added.
With the contractors permission, I picked up 4 bars of old window counter weights from a office renovation site. They appear and feel like some lead alloy or perhaps even pure lead. Anybody have an idea what I’ve got??
There's a fair amount of leeway in the whole lead alloy thing. While I often espouse the need for knowing exactly how to repeat an alloy that's proven to work for specific applications, I do recognize that it's not completely necessary. For the casual caster who's not into the minutia, taking a small pot full of wheelweight material plus maybe some range scrap or other unknown alloys and adding a "pinch" of tin to encourage complete mold fill-out is certainly a viable approach. Resultant bullets will probably work A-ok in a pretty wide range of applications (as long as anally strict protocols concerning bullet fit are adhered to) - it's just that the exact alloy created will forever be a mystery and efforts to duplicate it in subsequent batches will be iffy. God knows I operated like that for a long time, and life was good. The occasional frustrations gnawed at me a little bit so I resolved to up my game, and life got better.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
There's a fair amount of leeway in the whole lead alloy thing. While I often espouse the need for knowing exactly how to repeat an alloy that's proven to work for specific applications, I do recognize that it's not completely necessary. For the casual caster who's not into the minutia, taking a small pot full of wheelweight material plus maybe some range scrap or other unknown alloys and adding a "pinch" of tin to encourage complete mold fill-out is certainly a viable approach. Resultant bullets will probably work A-ok in a pretty wide range of applications (as long as anally strict protocols concerning bullet fit are adhered to) - it's just that the exact alloy created will forever be a mystery and efforts to duplicate it in subsequent batches will be iffy. God knows I operated like that for a long time, and life was good. The occasional frustrations gnawed at me a little bit so I resolved to up my game, and life got better.
I guess I cast like I cook. I just add different things until it works. The unfortunate part is sometimes things come out great and then I don't remember how to duplicate it.
Right now I'm basically working with 3 different inputs. My lino which actually tested more like mono with around 74% lead 8+% tin and 17 or so antimony iirc. Then I have a bunch of clip on ww alloy I melted down 6 or so years ago in a Dutch oven on my turkey fryer burner and then made ingots, then I have some softer stuff I buy from a jacked bullet manufacturer that's about bhn 10 and is supposed to be just lead with a little antimony.
As I do different bullets and batches I've been writing down the different ratios of these 3 blends in hopes of being able to reproduce what works. I'd like a good amount of pyre lead and some pure Tin to also be able to mix with some of these other 3. I hope to do more expansion testing of some of my hp bullets with different alloys in the spring.
My neighbor tested some of my penta hp 210g .452s I made with what I thought was a bit harder alloy of mostly ww with a bit of mono and got pretty good expansion from a hotter load in a 45 acp. I'm guessing from the charge of power pistol he said he used it was close to 1000 fps but I was surprised to see the expansion with that alloy. I've got lots of testing I want to do but I have too many projects going right now.
I did get several thousand different bullets cast and powder coated this summer so hopefully next summer I'll get more tested. I'm looking forward to testing my .432 hammers with the penta hp and my 420ish grain m&p .462 with the cup and penta points. I also did some 147g 9mm with a deep narrow hp and some 180g .402 with a shallow hp.
M&P didn't send ny the penta pins that were supposed to come with my 402 190/180 mold and the one set of hp pins I got are almost like a cup point they're so shallow. I can't seem to get a response from them to find out if they can send the other pins with my next order. I've bought 6 of their molds this year and would like to buy more but I'm hoping for a bit of communication first.
I also tried one of their aluminum non hp 200g flat nose .402 molds and that thing really cranks out some nice bullets and casts easily. My 4 cavity brass hp molds work very well for the most part too but a couple have had a little learning curve to them and I'm not quite around the curve on them yet.
I've had a few that have a really sticky cavity and one or two where the front alignment pin seems really sticky. I lube them with 2 cycle synthetic oil and finally resorted to spraying one mold with Franklin release spray so I didn't have to beat the last bullet out of it that always stuck. I'm pretty sure there's user error involved but I've had to figure it out on my own.
The hps are cool but that aluminum flat point mold casts so easy I'm thinking about ordering a few more of those. They even make 8 cavity ones in some calibers.
If any of you need soft lead ( don't know about purity, but it tests about 6 to 8 Bhn) from a hospital Xray room, I've got a ton, maybe a ton and a half left. I think I paid 30 cents for it back when, so I'd hope to get 50 cents for it now, but will discount large purchases. My local postmistress is still pissed at me for shipping a few boxes of it USPS flat rate, so shipping is out. But if you are traveling near Mt Shasta Calif, I can load you up.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
I used to do much the same thing with a 10 inch SSK 44 Magnum Contender Barrel. 300 grain LBT Long Flat Nose PB,LBT blue lube, hand lubed,close to 1,500 speculated (no chrono)with close to 22 grains of 296. Patched with a stick on computer label.
Amazing expansion because of the pure lead bullet and great penetration due to the Heavy Weight of the bullet and the ductility of the pure lead bullet which retains the weight
I'd like to hunt like that myself with my only "big bore" BPCR, but it's a .40-65 target gun that weighs 14 pounds all-in and I ain't gonna lug that beast around the woods all day! Why not with one of your .32-40's you might say? Again with the weight excuse I would reply! The thought has occurred to me to try paper patching soft lead 200 grainers in my .357 Maximum Martini, and if I did it would probably be with that one. Ditto paper patching for one of my myriad .30 calibers. Definitely not with the .22's (although I'd bet it's been done, probably by Digitally Dangerous Dan)!!
Many years ago I flirted with patching .30 bullets out of a Krag and a Winchester 54 .30-30, by wrapping the dead soft bullets with teflon tape. It was an imprecise PIA to execute and I gave up on it before mastering it. It did show intriguing possibilities for accuracy though and I kinda regret not pursuing it to the nth degree, and the prospect of 2000 fps with pure lead bullets for hunting was very intriguing too.
"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz "Always certain, often right." Keith McCafferty
Who'd a-thunk it. I checked just now and Walmart does sell it, for $50 for one pound ingot. Checked Rotometals too and their price is exactly half that. I guess Walmart likes a profit!
Muffin, what's your go-to tin/lead alloy for your large-ish paper patched bullets? Do any out of straight lead?
Liked a certain type of blue jean. Locally all stores sold out of my size. Got some from Wally online, decent price. Months later, try again local, same problem. Go to Wally online and they wanted DOUBLE what the normal price was, for that size.
Not sure why, but they seem to jack up prices due to availability. Maybe get from a diff source and mark up their standard amount?
Dunno but was stunned at the ridiculous pricing for an item thats normal, just out of stock on that size.
Wonder if that 50 bucks a pound lead price under same system.
Pops cast bullets, nice ones. Had about a dozen buckets of wheelweights. Had big chunks of pure lead from? And about 400 one lb ingots already alloyed.
Everybody "wanted" lead but didn't want to pay a buck a lb for the nice clean ingots. So I sold the wheelweights/chunks to a guy that was cool (had to clean out garage so worked in my favor) and scrapped the ingots.
Of course after that some folks whined about me not having the lead.
) and can't remember ever actually paying money for soft "pure" lead. It's always been "hey, I've got a sh*tload of lead sheathing left over from a roofing job, ya want it?", or "hey, I found a huge pile of old diving weights", or "my Dad was a plumber and there's a pile of lead ingots in the garage I gotta get rid of- you want them?" Being an inveterate dog-robber/scrounger for lead all my life has left me sitting pretty. Just a couple months ago I found a dusty stack of eight soft lead bricks in the garage out back belonging to my 93 year old friend, each brick weighing around 60-70 pounds. He said "oh yeah, I remember them, they came out of a radiology lab. You want them?"
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