Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only 9.2x62 v .375 Whelen variant for a build?

My late-to-the-party 2 cents: Wonder what Blu Cs decided to do ?

9.3x62mm is the way I would go.
CZ550 (Sir Bob) has supplied the handloading roadmap.

Never a blind magazine if you can help it.
A jam can happen even with the best, if a bit of debris gets in the box in combat.
Near impossible to clear except by dropping the floor plate sometimes.
It is a unlikely, but possible.
Be ready for the unlikely, and the rest is easy.
Also, never a Remington 700, whether BDL or ADL if you can help it.

I understand the wildcat thing, having done over 2 dozen of them myself.
I am still trying to grow out of it, but being a professional small boy makes it hard.
I am currently troubled by the .458 Watts Express 2.7".

The C.I.P. 9.3x62mm Mauser performs all out of proportion to its size.
One reason for that is that it has a long, leade-only throat that is longer in proportion to caliber than the .458 WinMag.
Leade angle is 0*21'29" for the 9.3x62mm.
Same measure is 0*29'30" for the more abrupt .458 WinMag.

The 9.3x62mm Mauser CIP will beat the socks off the usual .375 Whelen AI if the latter has a short and tight freebore.

1:14.17" twist (360mm) is CIP spec for the 9.3x62 barrel.
I bought a CZ 9.3x62 with 21.5" barrel length, the FS/Mannlicher style walnut,
with a steel floor plate.
First time out it put 3 shots into 0.306" at 100 yards, with Norma factory ammo, 232-gr Vulcan soft point.
I measured the twist and 1:14" is what I got.

I was so impressed with the 9.3x62mm, that I had to have the Ruger Hawkeye African on impulse at the local emporium,
when first I spotted one a few years ago.
That one has a skinny 24"-long barrel of 1:10" twist.
That one cries out for heavy bullets, have not tried them yet.

If I built a 9.3x62mm Mauser from scratch I would probably use a 1:12" twist.
I like knowing that the bullet's revolutions per second are the same as its feet per second at the muzzle.
That CZ I have was advertised as a 1:9.5" twist but it turned out to be a 1:14" twist.
Still scratching my head over that one.

If you must do the .375/.30-06, I understand.
If I did it, I would be sure it was throated like the CIP 9.3x62mm.
and with brass to match whatever dies are easiest to find.
That would be a custom reamer job.
Use a 1:12" twist like on the .375 H&H, or a 1:10" twist if you dare.

Purely an emotional response; the 375 Whelen AI combines the work of two great Americans to create a terrific round.
Frankly the 375 Whelen standard is all you could want for your stated purpose. 5 down and ready for anything in the woods.
Otherwise take Bob’s and Ron’s advice. 🤠

Yep. For a while I owned two CZ 550 9.3x62s, the standard rifle with a 23.6" (60cm) barrel, and a Stutzen with a 20.5" barrel. Took 'em both to the range one day with both factory ammo and handloads, and some ammo actually chronographed a little faster in the shorter barrel. Others didn't, but the difference wasn't much.

Gents:

Thanks all for your contributions, all very worthy! The truth is I'm still undecided, because I'm focused on an unrelated family issue right now (new granddaughter!), and in the words of the Prophet Mohammed: "Haste is the work of the devil".

As far as practicalities go (i.e. what to buy, etc) my options are narrowing down to:

1) Have JES rebore a long action in a post 64 Winchester M70 push feed or a R700 to either caliber

2) Rebarrel an old mauser action to either caliber.

3) Buy a Husqvarna from someplace like Simpsons, likely in 9.3x62 and not improve (fool) too much with it. Just run it until I can sort out the improvements it "needs".

Looking other cost factors, although the decision would not pivot on these: in favor of the 9.3x62 dies seem a lot less expensive than for the .375 W or WI by orders of magnitude, and in favor of the .375 I have a modest stock of .375 bullets already on hand for reloading.

Understand the argument on BDL type floorplate vs blind magazine, but curious as to why not to do the project on a R700?

Thanks again!

Can't see where a 9.3x62mm with even a 250 gr. bullet would give your any grief with your intended quarry and conditions.

Much less a controlled expansion 286 gr.

Even inexpensive PPU factory ammo would probably work fine, and be comfortable to shoot out of a light weight rifle, as well as provide good brass for reloading both economy (Speer) and premium bullets.




GR

Blu_Cs -

If you go with the Mauser rebuild, be sure to use a K98 or '38 Turk - the VZ-24s are too short for proper feeding of .30-06 length cartridges/bullet profiles. Maybe you already knew this, but better to repeat vs. having a jam-o-matic!

My half dozen VZ24 based customs would prove you wrong.
This one is a 9.3X62 similar to what the op has in mind and it feeds flawlessly.

Some will say pick the 9.2x62(3) because it's more popular in Africa. I say then why not pick the 7x64 over the 280 Remington because it's more popular in Europe.

Here's my choice a 375 Whelen AI with suppressor:



I've been mostly shooting 235 grain Speers in it so far. The last group I shot with iron sights was: 375 Whelen AI, M98, 235 Speer, 61 grains H335, 0.729"., that was before the suppressor and with iron sights at 54 yards. At 108 yards I shot a 1/2" group after I mounted a M8-4x scope on it, before the suppressor - which came today.
I bought a few boxes of 270 grain SPEER boat tail soft point bullets and when the weather gets better, I'll be putting it on paper.

This was what it looked like last year:



Granted I have a 375 Win and a 375 H&H AI, so I have boxes of 375 bullets. I also have 375 molds and I do not shoot factory ammo or at least rarely shoot factory ammo and mainly to get brass.

One suggestion lists a 286 at 2600+. Another load lists a 300 at 2400.

Why not get a 375 H&H?

Yup, I'm the guy who has published those numbers that came about when I switched to RL17 from RL-15 back in 2011. I've written a lot of blogs about the performance of my Tikka T3 Lite in 9.3 x 62 since then, saying it had replaced all my mediums - which was true. Like all 9.3 x 62 rifles, it is prrobably the most accurate big game rifle I've ever owned (right out of the box) and has never had any work done on it since for accuracy purposes. The barrel is a Sako match grade 22.44". The 250gr Nosler AB at +2700 fps shoots sub- 1/2 MOA when I'm up to it. And the 286 Partition at +2600 fps is sub-MOA for three at 100 yds. The 320gr PP took a bit more work to get the COL right so it too would shoot sub-MOA at +2400 fps. All three of those loads are the result of using RL-17. But for the 232gr Oryx, I use RL-15, and a modest load at +2400 fps that shoots into the same group at the 320gr at around the same speed - at 100 yds. That too is well under 1" for 3 or 5 at 100 yds. Of course the 320gr will carry its speed better down range due to a much better BC.

And, as you're aware, I've been working on loads for my "new" .375 H&H and have written much about that over the past several months. It's not my first .375 H&H, I've owned a couple - a Winchester M70 PF and a Browning A-Bolt previously.

But for what the OP has asked opinions on, I'd recommend the 9.3 x 62 over a .375 H&H. The .375 H&H is simply a bigger and much heavier rifle with slightly better ballistnics for the largest and most dangerous African fauna which is not needed in North America. I have the .375 H&H because of interest in it's best practical ballistics compared to other mediums, and have written pieces to that effect, not because I needed it for anything that my 9.3 x 62 can't do just as well where I hunt, and what. Will I keep the .375 H&H? At my age, they'll all go sooner than later, but I expect the .375 H&H will likely be the first - after all, I have a .458 Win Mag that will certainly be the last to go!

But all are very versatile for the handloader, and it's not necessary to use top loads in most of them, most of the time. The .458 being the MOST versatile (by far) of the bunch that I have.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Sir Bob:
I have kept up regularly with your blog for several years now,
did go back to the beginning early on, to catch up.
Good stuff, thanks.
You said, above:
"The .458 being the MOST versatile (by far) of the bunch that I have."

Me too !
The 9.3x62mm Mauser is a gifted cartridge with a long, leade-only throat.
From 1905 origin to 1956 inspiration of Winchester engineers ?
Was Otto Bock's 9.3mm gift to mankind the godfather of the .458 WinMag ?
Both perform all out of proportion to size and with extreme accuracy potential.

Wish there was enough stuff to hunt so one could justify an nice middlebore. I've thought seriously of both 9.3 and 375 Whelan. Trouble is I've got a fee 338's, 375Ruger, and 375H&H, and on the bottom end a 30-06. Hard to justify an middlebore when I've got 11 of them at the moment.

Here's a pic of a rifle I found on line. Really like the lines on this one and with the short forend would look right with the shorter bbl the OP mentioned. 9.3x62 would be the only choice.

Well 11 is an odd number, might as well make it an even dozen. If that helps

My choice is the 9.3X62 hands down. I like to be able to use factory ammo if necessary, and I'm not jazzed about crafting for a "cat". I've had five previous 9.3X62s and now use a plain-Jane Husqvarna FN 98 commercial actioned rifle. The CZ 550 American was the clubbiest rifle I've ever owned, and it hit me all the wrong places, especially in the cheek. I had a 98 commercial action 8 Mauser that was a JES re-bore to 9.3, two Rugers, a semi-custom on a VZ-24, and now the Husqvarna which is my favorite of the five. It's just a garden variety 98 that's light, has decent iron sights, a Timney Sportsman set at 3 pounds, and a Vari X III 2.5-8 Loopy in QD mounts.

As to the VZ-24 not working, my most accurate 9.3X62 was built on that action with a medium weight Bauska barrel. It was a five shot one-holer with any good quality factory ammo or properly crafted hand loads. It fed slick every time and wasn't fussy about how the bolt was worked.

My plain old 98 9.3, the bottom rifle:

Bruce,

Bought my first 9.3x62 over 20 years ago, after buying yet another one for my 9.3 mentor, Chub Eastman--long-time rifle loony who worked for both Leupold and Nosler over the years, and hunted around the world. I'd found a 9,3x64 Husqvarna in good shape at a local gun store, and Chub was always on the lookout for yet another. So I bought it for him, and he insisted I try it out before sending it along. Liked the milder recoil--and accuracy, even though I only shot it with open sights.

Bought my first 9.3x62 at the same store a year or so later, the CZ 550 I still own--though like Chub with the Husky I had it custom-stocked. Have since used it considerably from Alaska to Africa--and eventually sold my custom .338 Winchester Magnum and .375 H&H because I never used either after hunting with the 9.3x62. It just works, with noticeably less recoil than the .338 or .375, and the magazine holds more rounds, though haven't needed 'em so far.

Every one of the 9.3x62s I've fired has also been very accurate, despite that long throat. This includes the other two I've owned, a CZ550 full-length-stocked "carbine" and a Ruger No. 1. But the restocked CZ 550 is the last medium-bore hunting rifle I'd part with--and have owned a bunch, including three .375 H&Hs.....

I caught that you mentioned "restocked CZ 550". My CZ 550 American was spooky accurate, and I have always liked set triggers and have used some form since I was 12. I know there are arguments for and against set triggers and ultimate accuracy, as compared with a true uber trigger, properly tuned. Set triggers are a bit of a crutch for some of us.

My 550 American had my face black and blue, however I held and braced it. I'd love to see and hold your re-worked 550. I'm sure it is something to snug up to. I always wanted the CZ 550 LUXE full stock rifle. How is the stock on that scarce model?

I forgot that I had a sixth 9.3X62, and it was a wonderful and simple Mauser action rifle. It was put together by Mike McCabe. I sold it to help pay medical bills from a bout with cancer and time away from work. A great guy got it and appreciates it. I think his wife uses it now.

This One:

9.3 x 62 purely for history and feels. Available Lapua brass is also a plus. For once this isn’t an academic post; I actually executed this build on a Tikka action. Haven’t shot it yet, but feels great 😊

Should have added it’s a lefty action.

After a couple years of sporadic looking, I haven’t been able to find 286 Nosler PTs.