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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,437 |
What makes a 30 degree shoulder easier than a 40 degree 22-250 AI shoulder or the 28 degree 22-250 shoulder if you're going to fire form cases? In general, a 30 degree shoulder feeds better from a magazine than a 40. That's important for a production gun. The "easier" was in reference to the great 22-250 AI...a bit of tongue in cheek. Isn't the whole point of the 22 CM to have a standardized quicker twist to allow for the use of longer/heavier bullets than typical 1-14" ROT 22-250s? The 22 Creedmoor is nothing new. It's been around for decades as the 22-250AI...the only difference being the shoulder angle. What the Creedmoor designers got right was the neck and throat dimensions when it became a SAMMI cartridge. But accuracy minded 22-250 AI builders were already doing that for this and many, many other cases for over a half a century before the 'miraculous' Creedmoors appeared as a production item. The twist rate has zero to do with the chamber dimensions. You change the freebore (throat) length to fit the bullets you are going to shoot for the best accuracy. Again...standard accuracy design 101. The custom reamer used on this build was a no-turn 22 Creedmoor with a .030 freebore length for bullet weights appropriate for the jacket lengths/weights being used. With a throating reamer, this reamer has cut chambers for the 7-8 twist for the longer bullets that have been killer good for accuracy. And with a separate neck and throat reamers, it's made up great 6 Creedmoors with multiple bullet lengths with the appropriate twists. Not everyone is into lobbing long heavy projectiles with rainbow trajectories and using a LRF to range targets. Many of us enjoy the challenge of eyeballing a 'dog for distance, doping the wind and connecting. The accuracy of conventional BR quality conventional bullets is an added plus. Hope this helps. -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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A2700 and Win760 along with H414 are the same powder. But you knew this right? 414 and 760 were different powders for decades until being standardized as 760. H414 then ceased to exist as a new powder. 2700 has always been different. I know that with the acquisition of Accurate by Hodgden, I keep hearing that 2700 and 760 are the same. All I can tell you is my new 8 lber's of 2700 look different than new 760. They've always been virtually interchangeable...but not exact. I'm looking forward to shooting them both back to back. Good shootin ' -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 32,207 |
What makes a 30 degree shoulder easier than a 40 degree 22-250 AI shoulder or the 28 degree 22-250 shoulder if you're going to fire form cases? In general, a 30 degree shoulder feeds better from a magazine than a 40. That's important for a production gun. The "easier" was in reference to the great 22-250 AI...a bit of tongue in cheek. Isn't the whole point of the 22 CM to have a standardized quicker twist to allow for the use of longer/heavier bullets than typical 1-14" ROT 22-250s? The 22 Creedmoor is nothing new. It's been around for decades as the 22-250AI...the only difference being the shoulder angle. What the Creedmoore designers got right was the neck and throat dimensions when it became a SAMMI cartridge. But accuracy minded 22-250 AI builders were already doing that for this and many, many other cases for over a half a century before the 'miraculous' Creedmoors appeared as a production item. The twist rate has zero to do with the chamber dimensions. You change the freebore (throat) length to fit the bullets you are going to shoot for the best accuracy. Again...standard accuracy design 101. The custom reamer used on this build was a no-turn 22 Creedmoor with a .030 freebore length for bullet weights appropriate for the jacket lengths/weights being used. With a throating reamer, this reamer has cut chambers for the 7-8 twist for the longer bullets that have been killer good for accuracy. And with a separate neck and throat reamers, it's made up great 6 Creedmoors with multiple bullet lengths with the appropriate twists. Not everyone is into lobbing long heavy projectiles with rainbow trajectories and using a LRF to range targets. Many of us enjoy the challenge of eyeballing a 'dog for distance, doping the wind and connecting. The accuracy of conventional BR quality conventional bullets is an added plus. Hope this helps. -Al Other than a little more case capacity, what is the practical performance advantage of a .22 CM or a .22-250 AI with a 30 degree shoulder over the standard .22-250 with its 28 degree shoulder, assuming that the throat is cut and ROT selected with a specific bullet in mind? Do you know what bullet was intended to be the optimal choice for the .22 Creedmoor SAAMI specs chamber and throat?
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,856 Likes: 3 |
The other cartridges also have less body taper than the regular 22-250.
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Joined: Feb 2015
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2015
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~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
3-7-77
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
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It was a 223 with a 38 degree shoulder that was experimented with in the '70's for BR use. -Al
Forbidden Zoner
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,147 Likes: 1 |
It was a 223 with a 38 degree shoulder that was experimented with in the '70's for BR use. -Al Long time back, I had Fred Hasecuster chamber an old PPC barrel into a 6x47x45 for PD's. (6x222 Rem Mag Improved w/ a 45* shoulder) I got another 9K rounds out of that tube, hated to see it die......
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
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Long time back, I had Fred Hasecuster chamber an old PPC barrel into a 6x47x45 for PD's. (6x222 Rem Mag Improved w/ a 45* shoulder)
I got another 9K rounds out of that tube, hated to see it die...... I got so tired of shuffling this one around that I damn near cut it up to make seating dies.
Forbidden Zoner
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Joined: Feb 2015
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,413 Likes: 2 |
It was a 223 with a 38 degree shoulder that was experimented with in the '70's for BR use. -Al Thank you. I had googled it but nothing came up.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
3-7-77
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,147 Likes: 1 |
I did my 22 ACM last year, but on the 47 case. 18" tube with a 12" twist, running 52 Bergers at 3800. Had to step down the H-4895 to make it snort. Just what the doctor ordered for dark opps.......
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Joined: Jan 2003
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Campfire Tracker
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OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,437 |
I did my 22 ACM last year, but on the 47 case. 18" tube with a 12" twist, running 52 Bergers at 3800. Had to step down the H-4895 to make it snort. Just what the doctor ordered for dark opps....... What a great rig. You can imagine how hard it was for me not to use the 47L cases as a .224. If I would have had to use brass stamped 'CM' I couldn't have abided it. Having Lapua 22-250 brass saved me....
Forbidden Zoner
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Joined: Oct 2017
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Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 75 |
Aalf is that a blast can and do you find it helps a lot? I dont use suppressors but have wanted to experiment with a blast can.
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,238 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 20,238 Likes: 11 |
Aalf is that a blast can and do you find it helps a lot? I dont use suppressors but have wanted to experiment with a blast can. Disregard. I read the post wrong.
Last edited by T_Inman; 08/10/23.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,722 |
Aalf is that a blast can and do you find it helps a lot? I dont use suppressors but have wanted to experiment with a blast can. What is a blast can? What do you have against suppressors? I’m certainly not trying to talk anyone into one because the fewer people that buy them should mean mine will come in sooner. Just curious what would make a fella against reducing recoil noise and muzzle blast.
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