Home Forums Lever Action Central Big Bore Levers 45/70 real world velocity

I had the chronograph out yesterday so just for giggles I put the three factory loads I have on hand over it. Only three shots each but.. From my 1895GS;

300grn JHP Winchesters went 1701, 1622, 1615. 1646 average, 86 es and 38 sd. Advertised at 1880 fps.

405 grn JSP Remingtons - 1120, 1126, 1133. 1126 avg, 13 es and 5 sd. Advertised 1330 fps.

430 grn RNSP HSM Bear Load - 1700, 1704, 1709. 1704 avg, 9 es and 3 sd. Advertised 1801 fps.

I know that three shots don't tell the whole story but thought some of you may find it interesting.

Thanks for the info. Love 1895 GS(s).

My loads are usually under 1300 fps for 405gn cast.

Going into big bear country, would pack some 405-420gn ~1600 fps cast and some 380gn WFN solid ~1700-1800fps. Have some 305gn Lehigh Penetrators ~1800fps.

That HSM load looks usable.

I have come up with two loads I like for big bear, elk, moose.

Both use the Beartooth Bullets Piledriver Jr., advertised at 425 grains but actual weight 436 grains. This bullet is no longer available, so when my stash is gone I'll look at the Montana Bullet Works 420 grain LFN GC.

One is with 40.8 grains IMR 4198, goes 1650 fps. The second is with 47 grains H322, nets 1679 fps. Brass is Starline.

Accurate, recoil is a little heavy, but penetration is there.

I have a plinker load with a Cast Performance 300 grain and 15 grains Unique, nets 1280 fps and quite pleasant to shoot.

I have a JM 1895SBL that shoots exceptionally well. Most bullets will shoot into an inch or less at 100yds. The Swift 350 A-Frame has shot several 3-shot groups into an unbelievable 1/2" @ 100yds.

For hunting black bears, nothing works better for me than the Speer 400JFP bullet at 1,700 fps using H4198.

For hunting whitetails, where a flatter trajectory is helpful, I use the Barnes 300TSX at 2,000 fps, also with H4198

And lastly, I've been fooling around with the Hornady250gr MonoFlex. I am getting 2,300 fps from the 18.5" bbl in shortened brass with a max charge of AA1680. At 200yds, I was getting groups that varied from 1.25" - 2.25". Last year I dropped a nice buck at 125yds with that load. As expected, the mono bullet exited on a broadside shot.

I just stay with the one bullet in my 45/70. Speer 300gn JHP and 52gns H4198 for a 5 shot average of 2153fps.

Thanks for the info. I do find real world velocities interesting.

I know some youtubers were running Leverevolution 325 gainers out of a Marlin Cowboy 24" barrel and they were only getting 1,850. The load is advertised at 2,050

Sounds about right in the same ballpark I've experienced. The guy I hunt with is getting about 1830 with the LVR factory out of an 1895 Guide Gun, and the handload I worked up for it of the 325 FTX over IMR3031 is doing ~1810.

With a Sierra 300gr HP in the 45-70, 47.5grs of IMR-4198 lit the screen up at 2028 fps. Excellent accuracy from those Sierras. This load was also very accurate in a Ruger no. 1, but very safe in a Marlin 1895

Currently my only suitable mold is a Lyman 457193 that weigh around 418grs after lube. 39.0grs of IMR-4198 gets these going just over 1700 fps from a 22" Marlin 1895 45-70. Haven't taken it hunting yet, but accuracy is excellent and I suspect it'll do a nice job. Gotta be careful about what's on the other side. A deer won't slow this bullet down much.

the shooting gods won't let me have a 45-70, even tho i bought 3 45-70 Handi rifle over the years. (sold one, given to my friend's son, taken by my oldest son) so i bought a TC Encore in 23" MGM barrel in 444 Marlin., i did many cast bullets, including a Saeco 300gr FN GC with 2400/tuft of dacron that goes 1637fps, a nice mild load for deer. the longest i have shot a deer with this is 63 yards. behind the shoulder, tore up both lungs, broke 1 rib and exited the deer (.5ish" exit wound). i shoot a lot of deer with cast bullets, .311" to .512" and they go 1200 - 1900fps. the cast bullets don't slow down much after going thru a deer.

From my GG…..430 grain WFN, homemade cast! memtb

The first load that I worked with, I stopped right there! I might be able to improve upon that…..but, why waste components? memtb

Nice speeds. Mind sharing the recipe?

Shot my Guide gun today. The load I was concerned with is a BB Piledriver jr. going 1679 fps at the muzzle.

I was wanting to try a 25 yard zero at first. With the scope 1.75" high and dead on at 25 yards, it should've been about an inch high at 50 and 75 yards and just a smidge low at 100, making this load very usable for its' intended purpose, hammering big animals at close range.

I fired the first group and thought "That's about as zero as I'll get". Results pretty much matched prediction, so I'm happy.

Load is a Beartooth Bullets Piledriver jr. (alas, no longer available), CCI 200 primer, 47 grains H322, and Starline brass.

I don’t mind sharing…..but, you know the “WARNING” that must accompany! 😉 memtb

Accurate mold - # 46-430GV Bullets are Gas Checked & Powder Coated Starline Nicklel Cases CCI Standard Primers Powder: RL 7 43.0 grains OAL 2.553”

For years I carried my 1895 guide gun in grizzly country while picking huckleberries or calling for elk for friends during bow season. I loaded the 350g Hornady flat nose at just under 2100 fps over benchmark powder. It shoots well but it just kicks too much for me now that I'm getting old.

I don't even want to fire the rest I have loaded. My gun isn't ported and they make the barrel stand nearly strait up. I found myself starting to carry my ported 444p more.

So I started casting again a few years back and was running the lee 340 at about 1600fps and that made the guide gun fun again. A while back I got a 420g m/p mold that has the cup point, penta point, flat nose, deep hp pins. I've cast some medium hardness cup points, some hardball level flat nose, and some softer maybe bhn 10-12 penta hps. I'll be finding a few loads for all those but my cast stuff has been interrupted by getting other things ready for my 11 year old kids elk and deer hunts.

I hope to find a good mild maybe bullseye load and a good moderate maybe 1500-1600fps hunting and bear load for these various cast bullets from my 420 mold.

Bb

Yours are cast at home I know, but do you or anyone know where to find these bullets already made up? Sorry to hijack

Sorry gunchamp, I don’t! memtb

Numbers look about right for a Guide Gun. I'm pushing some 405's out at about 1750fps. Factory stuff does about 1230 fps. Both are very accurate, but it's killing on both ends at the upper end. Unfortunately, I have 85 rds remaining, and I need to find someone to shoot them for me. Next loading, I'll be dropping them back to about 1250 fps and I still expect they will do well on about anything in north America. No need to hot rod a 45-70.

Good thinking.

Those 85 rounds are easy to pull...

I'm not too worried about "killing on both ends" because I only shoot 1 or 2 rounds at a game animal. If you want a stomping lethal load, try the 402 Hammer bullet at around 1,700 fps. I shot 2 of them into a broadside bull moose that weighed 1,050lbs. Both exited and the sheared off petals made holes that could easily be seen through the lungs.

I'm going to try some 45-70s loaded to original velocities.

I tried some in my Guide Gun, loved it! But it just didn't seem right in the Guide Gun, so I was, by my conscience, forced to buy a period-correct rifle to shoot such loads.

An 1885 Highwall now has that job.

Hmmm, wondering about one of those Malcom scopes...

Factory loads are kept low because someone still wants to shoot Trapdoors and doesn't reload.
I think your numbers are good. Factory ammo never hits the numbers indicated by the maker.

I roll 420gr hard cast @ 1700FPS in my GG. I could go to max book for a GG which is ~1800fps, but I'm not sure why I would. I keep my GG around for grizz protection if we have game down and a camp gun. It's not my favorite gun to shoot with those loads, recoil is stout. I have some 300 gr cast plinkers I load to ~1800 fps, those are a lot more fun to shoot.

I'm contemplating a new mold, the 405 FN GC. I don't mean to hijack anything here but y'all are talking about that bullet.

I've fiddled some with a 325 gr plain base flat nose and not really liking it accuracy wise in my 2016 made Remlin 1895. I don't powder coat so I'm not running them hard at all. And I've kind of set that rifle to the back because of it.

I don't need/want a pile driver load with the 405, Rotator Cuff issues and all that, so I'd be loading to a somewhat tolerable recoil/velocity. Probably, most likely, with 5744.

What kind of accuracy would/should/could I expect from it at a non-shoulder crunching velocity? All the factors that go into making a cast load accurate are a given so no need to kick that stuff around here/now.

No toothy brown bears around here so 100 to 150 yards max on whitetails in the hardwoods is the most I'd probably ever ask it to do.

Love the different use of powders listed.
I’ve been running the GG for quite some time now and run all sorts of loads out of one particular GG with a 2.5x scope just for load development.

405 cast 458193’s sized at .459-.460 no GC using IMR 4198 at 1500 was my go to when I first started, has taken 6+ bears , numerous wild hogs.

I’ve ventured into the jacketed world some with North Forks and bumped them to 1700 FPS using 3031 just to utilize a full case and for testing purposes. Those at 100 yards are 1” moa out of a decent recoil but still not uncomfortable. That’s using 350’s cup nose solids, Woodleigh’s , north fork SP, and Leigh defense solids as far as accuracy. All in the 1700 FPS range
Best ES I can get from these is 3. These are 5 shot groups as far as accuracy and velocity measurements.

1400-1500 FPS is enough for anything on this continent I believe as I’ve never had anything escape a shot with my original load. Placement and bullet construction is important obviously.

A 405g 18 bhn cast bullet gave in and out penetration on a 1200 pound bison I shot years ago at about 75 yards. Dropped 25 yards from shot.
The old trap door load should be plenty for just about anything for those who dread the heavy recoil of the “bigger” loads

Paul Mathews in "Forty Years With The 45-70" said he settled on 1,300 fps as the best velocity for 405 Hardcast

I'll keep that in mind.

“Forty years with the 45-70” was a great book with loads to compare by.