Home Forums Reloading Bullet Casting casting furnaces

I learned to cast using a Lee bottom pour furnace in the early 90s and I am comfortable with it. I am used to it, it has always worked without too much trouble, and I get nice results. Today was a bit different. I went out to the garage today to do a little casting since we got a little break from near triple-digit temperatures---finally. Everything started off normally but as I got the mold warmed up the spout of my pot clogged. It would not unclog, so I powered down, drained all the metal, and cleaned it all up. It needed it. That's not too unusual with a bottom pour furnace, IME.

So, I get everything up and running again and it's all working as it should, but I find that I need to either slow down the pace or lower the temperature of my pot. I chose the latter option. Within a few minutes the pour spout froze up again and that caused me to have to break my rhythm. It didn't take too long to get back on track but I am beginning to wonder if I wouldn't be better off casting with a ladle. I tried casting with a ladle early on and it just didn't click for me, so I abandoned it and never tried it again. At this point, I'm wondering if I should give the ladle another try, but I'd rather try to collect a few pointers first.

So first, is there a good trick for keeping a bottom-pour furnace form acting up like this? I know keeping the alloy clean will go a long way, but maybe there's something else I can do that I haven't thought of.

Second, who's made this transition and did so with complete satisfaction---and in a pain-free manner?

Is there a commonly recognized and recommended type of ladle? Any special tricks in using one?

should I decide to go with ladle casting are there any special features in a furnace I should either seek or avoid?

You just never know what it is you don't know, so here I am. I'd like the benefit of experience since there's so much of it here.

Thanks.

I’m a ladle caster. I use the big Lee ladle pot and don’t have any complaints. When you get a ladle definitely get the type that looks like a ball with a teapot spout on one side, much less spillage and you can pressure cast if you need to by sticking it in the sprue hole and tilting the whole works instead of pouring it from above. I have to do that with hollow point molds sometimes to get good results.

I used a Lyman bottom pour for a few years and didn’t care for it. Probably the operator but I got more culls and always had the drips underneath. Went back to ladle and have been satisfied for my uses.

I use both. Bottom pour furnaces (an old Lyman and an RCBS) and ladle. For sure a bottom pour furnace when running pistol molds and gang molds such as the six cavity H&G #68. I tend to use the old Lyman side pour ladle when casting plain base schuetzen competition bullets. The Kid's description of ladle pouring mirrors my technique. Drag the ladle across the surface to create a mirror-like surface into which to dip for a fresh pour.

When employing the furnaces I press the sprue plate tight against the bottom spout for a one-two count, then drop it a fraction of an inch lower for another one-two count without letting up on the handle and let the lead puddle up high on top of the plate with often some dribbles down over the side. With a strict cadence when the lead and mold are at optimal temperature I get very consistent bullets at an acceptable rate - as good quality as with a ladle.

With a gang mold I just open the spout and fill each cavity one by one down the line without stopping. I get a few incompletely filled out bullets but I accept that in exchange for the speed. Don't know if weights vary much with that technique, my handguns don't seem to mind if there is.

With my equipment I can more closely control temps with a furnace. I find ladling out of my furnaces to be a bit awkward so I employ a cast iron pot. Thermometers are omnipresent in the lead no matter which system I use.

I and a buddy gifted our dear friend a new Lyman furnace with all the bells and whistles last spring as a going away present and after seeing it I gotta get one for myself. The built in PID is the t*ts.

I only briefly attempted years ago to use a Lee furnace and soon discovered that the whining I heard about them was true. Life is too short to put up with aggravation.

Obviously I can't speak to why the OP's spout keeps freezing, just a shot in the dark: the thermostat in the old Lee pot is crapping out and the temp isn't as high as you think it is? That'll cause freezing in the spout for sure. Unseen contaminants in the alloy?

2 rcbs pro melts for bottom.pouring. A Lee Magnum ladle pot with a PID temp control for big bullets..mb

Rowell Ladles
This is the Cadillac/Lincoln/Benz of casting ladles.
I don't remember what size I have, but they go all the way to two hand, small child size pours to a little too small for a four cavity 400 grain mold. There is a guide that will help you pick what's best for your needs, probably one of the two smaller ones.

The trick to good ladle casting is a lead thermometer. A guy with a turkey fryer and a cast iron pot has a tendency to get things TOO hot, and creating excess oxidation and slag when doing so. The Rowell ladle will still make good bullets if you are guessing. The thermometer will make the ladle and the alloy pot both happy.

I apologize, but then I don't, for anyone trying to expect decent work with anything LEE as it pertains to most things, most of all casting.(Yes, maybe it was me that gnoahh was referring to). Unfortunately, judging by reviews of most of the "new" pots, the fancy controlled jobs by even Lyman and RCBS get mediocre reviews. I still have my old analog RCBS and would get another if they still made them. I've had a Magma on order for two years now.

Keeping alloy clean, never running scrap through a bottom pour uncleaned and ever so often running the pot empty and running molten wax through the spout and pin helps. The RCBS and Lyman of old allowed removal of the pin for cleaning with fine bronze or steel wool if absolutely needed. Not running the pot low and fluxing before a session keeps the grit on top where it can be skimmed.

The pin and spout plugs because it isn't being seated firmly over time when shutting off the flow. The LEE handle lacks much mechanical force to do a decent job to do this and they plug and are wretched little creatures that never seem to behave. When you think they do, they'll burn a fella or worse.

Thanks for the responses so far.

Since I've been in these internet forums (starting around 2000 or so), I've learned that you gotta give credence to what a man says about his experiences. Conclusions based on observations may not always be spot on, but when a guy tells you "I did this and this is what I saw happen," it's a pretty safe bet it went like he says. When it comes to casting guys seem to find a range of techniques that work for each individual, so I conclude that there is no "rule" that holds true universally. IOW, it ain't rocket science. Just an observation.

So, I can accept the notion that the Lee pot is not highly esteemed. I've been using mine since I found it in a second-hand store in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico back around 1991 or '92 for about $25. I guess I've got my nickel's worth out of it.

I do think I prefer a bottom pour, if for no other reason than that's the way I've done it for thirty years. So, are there bottom pour furnaces that won't clog up as easily? I know mine was clogged with slag/impurities/oxidation or whatever when I first fired it up and I believe it clogged the second time because I turned the heat control down, and maybe just a little too far. Incidentally, I do have a thermometer but I do not leave it in the melt all the time. I've been running at around 650*F lately and my alloy is a kind of approximate running average 96-Pb/3-Sn/1-Sb that I started many years ago, re-mixing and re-alloying at intervals when I needed to add metal to the overall stock---kinda like that pot of beans that's been simmering on the stove since 2008 with fresh dry beans added once or twice a week...not too scientific at all, but my results have always been quite acceptable.

Anyway, if there's a bottom-pour furnace that is notably better than the Lee in regards to the pour function, I'd sure like the suggestion. I'm still open to relearning with a good ladle but if I can stick to bottom-pour and be happy with it I'd probably opt to go that direction. All I know is I've put up with the Lee's habits of not pouring when I want it to and continuing to drip when I DON'T want it to long enough. I might have a good 20 years left in me and not having to tolerate all that might be pretty nice.

I have been using a Lee bottom pour for so many years I can't remember. One thing I always, always do when I'm thru casting is drain the pot completely. Then I turn it upside down & tap it against a piece of scrap 2x8 . This causes all the slag & debris left in the pot to be removed. This way when I run anew pot of alloy my pot is always clean. Keeping your pot clean helps a lot. Yes my spout freezes up at times if I set it too cool. Turn the temp up a bit til it flows & leave it there. Adjust your pour rate so your mold doesn't over heat , or use two mold alternately back & forth.

I went ahead and bought a 25-pound RCBS bottom pour furnace. It's here now. I figured I've gotten my money's worth out of the Lee production pot, and besides these minor irritations the 10-pound limitation is as much a concern.

One thing I intend to do is clean the ever-lovin crap out of the stash of bullet metal I have on hand so that I don't need to clean it in the pot after it melts. I use Marvellux, which I know many guys hate, and it does leave residue in the pot but its ability to thin the melt so that it pours like water makes it worth the trouble in my opinion. I will be re-alloying about 250 pounds of metal in the next few weeks, and hopefully I can get it clean enough before I pour it into ingots that further cleaning won't be needed...we'll see about that, though. I've never been able to achieve that but I've only used paraffin and other conventional stuff for alloying and the initial cleanup in the past.

I hope the RCBS furnace is a little easier to work with. I'll be finding out soon enough, I guess. Just being able to keep on casting once I've done eight or nine pounds of bullets without stopping, then having to bring the mold back up to temperature again should be a benefit. I can get a lot more done in a day if I don't have to stop for that crap.

Been using 1 rcbs promelts for many moons they are great bottom pour pots but if you need to ladle BIG bullets the Lee Magnum dipper pot is the best for the money..mb

Any of them.

I think you have set yourself up for better results with your recent purchase.

I wore out a Lyman (rewired it twice), still have an RCBS that I would get another if they still made them. I generally use it twice a week and have over the last 5-10 years, cranking out 500-1k pills a week.

I have had three LEE bottom pour pots. The first one was around for years, making a handful of jigheads or a few dozen bullets until it didn't even make the alloy molten anymore. The last two I tried making use of by being used strictly for softnosed metering where they couldn't even manage that; the newest one was worse than the older one it replaced. It pissed right out of the box.

I love my new rcbs furnace after only having a lee drip o matic with a thermometer sticking in the pot. I love that the rcbs regulates Temps and doesn't drip. My first one the fan sounded like a wheat grinder so they sent me a whole new furnace.

I kept the Lee dripper just to melt and clean alloys to make clean ingots for the rcbs. The lee does well in that role.

Bb

Started with a Lee bottom pour and was successful I guess for a time. Tolerated all the above mentioned shortcomings while learning. Found an RCBS at a gun show full of alloy. Quite used condition, functional though according to the seller. Price was cheap enough to give it a try so I bought it and packed it home.

Took awhile to clean up and adjust. The 18 or so pounds of alloy it contained proved to be very useable. While I did make mistakes in adjustments at first it wasn’t long until I had it running smooth. Boy what a difference. The RCBS was simply better in every way than the Lee. Less leakage, less clogs, easily adjustable stream etc… .

Going forward a number of years I used a thermometer in the melt. Worked well when I kept everything right. Had to keep cadence up, alloy level right, all the necessary things.

Found some discussion about a PID temperature controller on various forums. Really was intrigued and bought the necessary components to build one. Spent around $50 on the items. Before I got around to putting them together I found a fellow on the Castboolits sight who was building and selling them. His name on the sight is “Hatch”. I bought one. Great purchase. Easy to use and keeps alloy temps consistent once up and running.

Sometime after, both Lyman and RCBS revamped their offerings to include PID controllers. Reviews seemed mixed initially concerning quality and function. I haven’t kept up much but have to believe they have addressed the issues. If I were to need a new pot one of these would be my choice. For now though my cobbled up gun show find and external PID are working great.

I should include a disclaimer. By no means am I as experienced or skilled as those here or elsewhere. I’m relatively new to casting and do it as a hobby. My education has come predominantly from these boards. Few that I encounter personally in my area cast or have interest. Also, most of my work is for pistols. Some day I hope to do more for rifles and try pouring from a laddel.

I've never been successful with a ladle. Mine date from the 1940s though, maybe someone has learned something since then. Generally I don't run the metal hot enough to keep it melted properly when moving it up into the air from the pot to pour so I get really poor fill-out.

I've never had any issues with the Lee pot but I don't try to pressure cast with it. It only clogs when I let the level inside get too low then try to heat/melt too much "new" metal at the same time. A while back I cast for 8-9 hours with a couple 4-cavity molds and had to unclog a f*ck-up twice in that period. I keep a big steel needle and a pair of pliers on the table for when that happens. If I do manage to clog it with "cooties" it means I didn't flux the metal enough.

All in all, how you get there doesn't matter, just matters that you find the method that works for YOU. I would not give up on something or change away from something that works just because someone else says it is crap, likely you know as much as they do about how you do your casting.

Best o' luck!

Tom

I appreciate all the feedback here. My new RCBS pot is still sitting unused, but there is a plan in place.

Last weekend I acquired an additional 360 pounds of metal, including a little pure lead, some pure tin, and some linotype. I already had 200 pounds or more of my usual alloy, I think, and a lot of this new acquisition should be exactly the same composition. This stash should now last me as long as I live. I'll have to weigh all this out and see what I've got. I may peddle the pure stuff or I may incorporate it into my final alloy, I don't know yet. What I DO know is that whatever I decide to keep and use myself will be re-alloyed into a single homogenous alloy just to be sure it really is all the same stuff---and, this time, I am going to take the opportunity to clean the everlovin crap out of it before I pour it into cookies (I use a muffin pan). I have a couple of pounds of Frankford Arsenal's version of Marvellux on order just for that purpose because my old jar of Marvellux is going to play out. I am hoping I can get this new alloy mix clean enough that I don't have to mess with it once I melt it in my new furnace...but I don't know if that's an attainable goal, or even practical. When everything's here I'll give it a whirl.

By the comments, I think I'm going to like this new furnace. I've never used anything but the old Lee so I don't know what it's like to use a pot that maintains temperature with precision, doesn't drip, and doesn't clog at the drop of a hat. I've always looked at casting as a bit of a backbreaking chore and thought that ending up with 500 good bullets at the end of the evening was a pretty good lick. If this new furnace really is that much better I think I'll enjoy casting a lot more.

Thanks again.

Sounds like a great plan.

Just keep the temp of wheelweights around 650 or so.

Zinc weights abound and can wreck a lot of hard work in short order.

LEE stuff is baseline functional IME, and not conducive to enjoying casting, which is another reason I don't recommend them.

I'm pretty sure there's no zinc in my metal. I'm pretty careful about that...I've had people give me ingots before, and not knowing what the hell's in them I just say "thanks" and use them to weigh stuff down. No way in hell will that unknown stuff end up in my bullet metal!

Last casting session I was doing RCBS .40-180-FNs with my old usual alloy and by the time everything warmed up and stabilized and I had a pace established I was getting good bullets at about 625*F. Very good bullets, in fact.

I think I might be getting the hang of this casting thing. The art part of it, anyway. As far as the science goes I will always be a rank amateur!

Pops ran ladle or old Lee (maybe Lyman) bottom pour, both worked for him.
Got a Lyman Mag 25 and never used it.

I use a Lyman Mag25, zero complaints.

ive had about all of them today i use 2 rcbs pots i bought when the barn and my loading room burnt to the ground. before tat i had lee and lyman. the lymans are decent pots but i like my rcbs ones better. havent ladle casted in 30 years and can honestly say ill never bother with it again. its like wading in mud

I cast bullets from a lyman cast iron pot on a Coleman white gas camp stove for years. I still own them. However I changed over to a electric bottom pour furnace a number of years ago. The change from dipping lead to bottom pour took a while to figure out but I got there.

That is my set-up.