Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only Best bullets for 444 Marlin slow twist

Wondering what others are using for bullets on older slow twist Marlin 444 (1:38)? Hornady XTPs, Speer Deep Curl or Swift A-frame or others? Can’t seem to find many bullets available in the Speer or Swifts. Want to keep under 300 gr due to the slow twist. This is for deer only. Suggestions? Thanks!

I've always had good performance with the Speer 270 Gold Dot or Deep Curl, whatever they are calling it now. The Hornady 265 bullet has also been good but not quite as accurate for me.

The Speer 300 bullet is a good one as well but you need to keep the speed up for best performance.

Haven't really tried any 240 grain bullets so I can't comment on those but a friend had used the Nosler 240 bullet with good results.

My 24" 444 with 1:38 twist micro groove rifling runs 240 XTPs very well.

And they freight train a whitetail.

i have a TC Encore with a 23" MGM barrel in 444 Marlin (1 in 20" twist). yours must be a 1 in 38" twist.

i have shot the 265gr Hornady FN with Reloder 7 and H4198 very accurately. as far as i know, they are discontinued or seasonal. i have also used 200gr and 240gr Hornday XTP but i used it with Trail Boss for fun.

i have and still do use cast bullets exclusively. they are 250gr penta HP, 255gr SWC (Keith type), 275gr Ranch Dog, 280gr LFN GC, 280gr WFN GC and 300gr FN GC with Reloder 7, H4198, 2400, Trail Boss and Unique. i would go either a 275gr Ranch Dog or 280gr WFN GC. i would either cast my own or have The Bull Shop (275gr RD) or Montana Bullet Works (280gr WFN GC) make them. if you do, then make sure that it will be .432" dia with 12 to 15 BHN if you are hunting deer and black bear with them. shooting paper, then anything over 15BHN will do. i use COWW and a smidge of tin (12"+/- BHN) or Lyman #2 with a smidge of tin (15+/- BHN). it will kill deer deader than dead!!!

i don't use the 265gr Hornady FTX because i'm told the FTX really damages the meat. i have never shot the 270gr Speer and the Swift A frames. i'd stay away of the premium bullets (Swift A frame and the like). so i'd go with 270gr Speer if i didn't cast.




https://bullshop.weebly.com/-44-caliber-cast-bullets.html
https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/44-mag-lbt-280gr-wfn-gc/

You can still get the hornady #4300 bullet, but
unfortunately you have to buy them stuck in the
end of loaded Superformance ammunition.
I guess the hornady folks felt the sp gave the
FTX too much competition.

Best one I've ever used in the 444 rifles I've
used and killed deer and swine with.
I've still got a fair supply of #4300 if I only
use them for checking zero and making animals
dead, then I'll have to start from square one
again. Probably try the XTP first as ^ ^ mentioned.
I've had really good luck with the Deep Curl
in my 44mags, but never tried it in the 444 marlin

I've still got quite a few, but I've always ran the 300 grain XTP.

Powder I used and still do, is SR 4759, as I still have 25 to 30 lbs of it...

My usual load is 35 grains of it, with the 300 XTP. MV is 1750 fps out of the 24 inch barrel.

a quarter size hole going in and a half dollar size hole coming out... and the lungs look like they were
stirred with a chain saw...

Thanks all. I will see how the 2;0 XTPs perform as I have some on hand and keep looking for some soft points or cast. Thanks for all the input.

About the only bullet my old 444 would shoot worth a crap was the 300 Nosler Sporting JHP. They worked very well.

Mine went down the road but it shot the 250 gr Partition pretty well. I still have a pile of the Partitions that I bought years ago on closeout from Mid-South.

i still have about 400+/- 265gr Hornday FN. (no i'm not selling them). i don't like 444 short brass with the 265gr Hornady FTX. even tho i have 50 pieces pf 444 short Hornady brass.

i used to the Ruger SRH (7.5" barrel) in 44 mag with the 200 and 240gr Hornady XTP with a hot load of Win296. i killed about 6 or 7 deer at ranges of 20 - 30 yards, except one. i shot a doe that was about 125+/- yards (this was before laser range finder was born). i forget what grain i killed it (i think 200gr XTP), but it went thu deer's lungs and broke 2 ribs on the off side.

I load the 240 grain Speer Deep Curl HP for a friend. 44.0 grains H4198. Not a full tilt load, but easier on the shoulder. It always punches the center out of a 100 yd. target. Hammers the heck out of whitetails. 240 XTPs shoot the same with that load but I prefer the Speer design.

The Marlin 336 444 Marlin and Marlin 1894 44 mag suffer from the same problems with barrel design. The biggest issue is the large groove diameter, which is 0.431-0.432". The second issue is the slow 1-38" twist. The third issue is the rifling/groove depth is shallow, on the order of 0.0025" deep.

Most "44 caliber" jacketed bullets are 0.429-0.4295"( some at 0.430") This combination of large groove diameter barrels with shallow rifling, and "skinny" bullet diameters lead to less than desired accuracy.

Roze Distribution sells Zero brand bullets (online). One of their offerings is a "44 caliber" jacketed softpoint bullet which weighs 240 grains, AND is the fattest diameter on the market at 0.431". It really helped my Marlin 1894 44 mag carbine (slugged to measure a groove diameter of 0.4315"). Accuracy was in the 6-8" area at 100 yards with various 0.429-0.4295" jacketed bullets (240 and 265 grains tested). With the 0.431" Zero 240 grain jacketed bullet, accuracy improved , producing ~ 2" groups at 100 yards.

1000 bullets: http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZBJ-44MAG

500 bullets: http://www.rozedist.com/mm5/merchan...e_Code=RZD&Category_Code=ZB-44Magnum

The other bullet option is a cast bullet that is a smidge (0.0005") under your throat diameter (research "pound cast" method to get that critical measurement). You probably want at least 0.433" and maybe 0.434" for cast bullet diameter, AND a sizing die at least 0.433", pending your groove and throat diameter findings. I think Buffalo Bore used to sell 0.433" sizing dies . I bought one years ago for my SAECO lubrisizer, and still have it, along with a NOE bullet mold that throws a 265 grain 0.432+" bullet. Slug your barrel to get a groove diameter measurement, and also on your chamber's throat, then decide mold diameter, then order from Arsenal Molds. Jacketed bullets care only going up in price. A 444 Marlin and 44 mag thrive on well-written cast bullets. Utilize this to your advantage.

You can get a custom bullet mold from Arsenal Molds (online). They have some WFN style 250 grain molds. You can specify the "as cast" diameter you want for no extra charge. A 2-cavity Arsenal mold is about $73 + shipping. This is an incredibly high-value, high-quality custom mold made for your desired diameter. I'd specify an "as cast" diameter of at least 0.433" for a Marlin 444 or 44 mag chamberings.
http://arsenalmolds.com/products?limit=100

It is a stupid fact of life of the SAAMI groove diameter of the 44 mag. SAAMI has a PISTOL groove "standard" of 0.429", and a RIFLE groove diameter of 0.431" for the 44 mag ( not sure about the 444 Marlin).. Marlin uses (or used to use) the same machines to make 444 Marlin and 44 mag barrels for their rifles, so likely the same oversize groove diameter on both. Considering both are relative "new" chamberings (from the 1950s-1960s), it seems idiotic for SAAMI to have two separate groove diameter specs ( rifle and pistol), but they do.

Try the 0.431" Zero jacketed bullet in your 444 Marlin. Should save you money in the long run for accuracy testing by not buying/testing undersized bullets which yield disappointing accuracy. Zero bullets are among the lowest cost bullets on the market, but minimum order is 500 bullets ( $105.80 per 500 bullets-but also includes shipping). I shot their bullets with complete satisfaction in my 45 acp, 357 mag, and used to- in my Marlin 44 mag (sold the rifle 9 years ago in my "thinning the herd" activity).

Good luck.

Well said Buttstock. Thanks for the link on the .431 jacketed bullets sir.
F01

Yes, thanks for that link.

Has anyone tried these Hawk Bullets in a 444 Marlin? They are .430 diameter and you can specify jacket thickness. I've been thinking about trying some in my other lever gun calibers since Sierra has dropped the ball on hunting bullets in favor of guberment contracts. Not that I NEED to but I'll probably try them in the 444 as well just to see.

I've used Hawks in 35 cal. They are butter soft which is awesome at lower velocities.

I would think your .444 makes enough pressure to get most jacketed bullets to bump up and fit the bore. My 44 mag 1894 shot a lot of different 240gr bullets into an inch despite the fact that I could easily see the bore restrictions where all the dovetails had been cut.

Just got off the phone with Hawk.

Three out of three calibers I wanted are out of stock and "dont know" when back in stock. The 265 gr .430's, 308 170gr FP, and 358 250 gr FP..

Was fixin' on dropping a couple hundred bucks their way just to try em.

I said ok thanks and bye.

Ordered 500 of those .431 240gr.

Will give em a whirl.

Thanks for the solid information Buttstock. Do you think the Zero .431 bullets 240 grn will perform well in whitetails?

Yes.

My order of 500 Zero bullets shipped just now. Pretty quick turn actually. Faster than Speer direct which I ordered from at the same time the other day.

Hope they shoot good in my 444T.

Buttstock,

Ok, might have the cart before the horse here.

Ordered the Zero 240gr (500) and they came in today. Measured a few with my Starrett 0 - 1" micrometer and they sure enough measure .431" very consistently. None were over that diameter.

Then, I decided I better slug my bore just to be sure. It measures .430" on the soft lead slug driven entire length of the bore with Imperial die wax as a light lube. Slug came out in good shape showing good lands and grooves.

How do you think this is going to work out? Am I going to see too much pressure?

Question from OP:

"How do you think this is going to work out? Am I going to see too much pressure?"
_--------------------------------------------


Don't know.

Use safe loading practice, and work load up with a non pistol powder. 4198 (IMR or H) is a classic 444 Marlin powder. Start at ~ 75-80% of max, and work up a grain at a time, observe pressure signs ( case head expansion, sticky extraction, primer flattening etc). Maybe load up 3 rounds each at a powder level, increase a grain with another 3 rounds, wash rinse repeat. Same strategy for any bullet being evaluated in reloading.

A slugged barrel/groove diameter reading of "whatever" diameter doesn't mean the entire barrel's groove diameter is that reading ( could be), but it does reflect the TIGHEST groove diameter. It may open up with shooting. Search for "fire lapping" a barrel with grit/cast bullet to address tight barrel spots or thread choke.

0.001" isn't much (0.430-0.431"). Enough to be careful in loading, but may not be a huge ( or any) issue. Be smart. Be safe and take it one loading level at a time.

Get a "pound cast" reading of your chamber throat. Barrel (bore groove/throat) measurements are important, which is why I recommended doing them to get accurate info on your barrel for bullet selection. Good luck.

Buttstock,

Did a quickie pound cast, 50 cal soft lead roundball, half into the rifling, back half still in chamber.

~ End of "chamber" measures .4565"

~Area between end of chamber and beginning of rifling is about 045" or 050" long and is .4315 dia. up against the "shoulder" of the chamber.

~Beginning of the rifling measures .431"

~And of course the full length slug measured .430"

Use standard safe reloading practice in developing a load. As stated above, start at a reduced powder level and work up. I would use a "stick" powder (not spherical powders, which may provide wonky pressures at reduced charges).

What powders do you have? Stick powders in the burning rate like 4198, Reloader 7 or slower (ie 3031)would be a good start for powder selection.

Preaching to the choir on all that Padre.

Thanks for your input. I'll see what I can come up with.

I have a first year production 444 Marlin, rifle, not the carbine. I started out to make it shoot. First up, I put a tip-off Weaver scope mount w rings on it and 2 1/2 x Bushnell steel body USA made scope on it. The original sights just suck ditch water. Next I slugged the barrel, micro groove.... So decided to run very hard cast to see if the Lyman 210 or 240 SWC moulds would work. Both work and do hold the lands, sized to groove diameter. With 12 grains of Unique under the 210 my 444 rifle from a rest will actually hold 1" at 200 yards. When you shoot a deer behind the shoulder, it just quivers like jello and drops, DRT. Bullet makes about a 45 caliber hole in and out, does not stop. Pretty much like the 45-70 with a bit less recoil. Son shot his first deer with the rifle, at about 100 yards, same result, just blew the contents of the chest cavity out the back side. Made field dressing it easy.
Shot that gun and load combination in Cowboy Silhouette maches, any sight, for about 10 years, pretty easy to shoot 40 rounds off hand with it.