Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles H 414

I was going to say the same thing that hipshooter said
There is a bunch of load data on Hodgen's site & both powders are listed as the same same.

There are now the same! Same charge, same pressure, same velocity. You might find some older date where it varies a grain er so.
Maybe.

I see some people are way behind. lot to lot swings of the definite deal..

at one time they were very similar but slightly different


several years ago they became exactly the same


now I guess one is discontinued and where's the trademark of the other ..
if you're buying new patterns keep up with the new data if you're using old powders by all means keep the old data

And just because there’s a grain or two difference doesn’t mean they’re not the same. If Lee was concerned about bullet manufacturers they use in thier data they would list them, and actually a few they do list. Usually it Barnes and for good reason. But standard cup and core they don’t, and whyyy is that? ANY bullet, with any load, with any rifle NEVER gave me a pressure issue when working up loads with either powder, at all. Do you believe that, do you want to believe that?

As far as I know LEE doesn't test anything, I believe they just copy and print others info/data.

Hip

Ok so you read the back cover of their manual, like i just did.



that doesn't change the fact that specific brand bullets are not listed save a few. Does that mean their data is unreliable ?? That there are thousands of loaders who swear by that one component, the bullet effects the load if you switch it out from what's listed? Obviously that is incorrect ! Isn't it. Not saying it changes the outcome of internal, external ballistics, but not the way some people try and make you believe.

Not only lot to lot but also differene in action's/chamber's! I use W760 data with H414, i simplystart low and work up. Know what? When I use H414 data with H414 I also start low and work up!

I found some accurate loads using H414/WW760. Then I found that these powders were temperature sensitive and I stopped using them.
The 4350’s are in the same ballpark as far as burn rate goes. I have several rifles that the best powder for accuracy and velocity is with IMR4350. I’m trying H4350 and IMR4451 and have found that H4350 is great in a rifle or two.

The temperature variation in South Dakota can be significant. I’ve hunted at nearly 100 degrees and also at -40 degrees. Usually it’s not that extreme. But where I annually I hunt whitetails it has been a little more than 70 and sometimes close to 0. Temperature sensitive powders are not something I’ll use.

Bugger, unless you have a big stash of 4451 I wouldn't get too carried away with it. It and the rest of that enduron line has been discontinued. Once the current stock is depleted it's gone. I switched to it a few years ago when H4350 was unobtainium, and worked up a really good load in 3 rifles. I have 4 or 5 pounds left, but when I run out I'll hafta switch back to H4350 or something else. Kinda disappointed with Hodgdon over that decision.

It seems that powder companies have the same commitment to their customers as Remington had to those who bought firearms that used the cartridges they introduced and abandoned.

like anything else if it doesn't sell they need to market something that does.

I wouldn’t condem H414 or any ball powder based on the POSSIBILITY of some velocity spread from high temps. Unless you are truly pushing the load envelope with max charges and seating your bullets into the landes or within a few thousandths I doubt you will notice any significant difference. If you’re a benchrest shooter or extreme accuracy minded varmint hunter a little velocity spread will change point of impact with some cartridges and tweaky rifles but otherwise you just might print a tad higher but that is about all. Of course you should be able read pressure signs. Most rifles perform better below max charges anyway so all told don’t walk away from ball powders they have too many advantages in some cases to ignore.

Ball or flattened ball powders all have a flame deterent coating that regulates their burning rates. Ball powders are known as ‘ progressive burn ‘ as they burn gradually creating a more even pressure down the barrel. Barrel strain gauges have confirmed how ball powders act during the pressure curve so it’s not just BS. I’ve been loading a number of ball powders for years a few of which no stick powder can duplicate. The old W680 in the Hornet and Bee, AA 2015 in my 222’s, H335 in my 444 and 45-7O’s and the discontinued H450 in most of my Ackley improved from 243, 257 and 30-06. They usually need a hotter primer in bigger cases but otherwise nothing loads easier and in some case and loads gives you max density.

Rick

It's hard to beat Ball/Spherical to extruded, yes. I get some great accuracy but temp changes destroy it. If I could walk off my porch three weeks before opening day, that's all I would load. However the powder is hard on throats.

Why do ball powders erode throats more than stick ? With all due respects I think you got this wrong. Ball powders burn cooler than almost all stick powders and because they burn progressively the initial temperature up front is less. They do foul a bit more but apparently Hodgdon has been working this out. As I mentioned before extreme temps will affect velocity to some degree but unless you’re shooting near the edge I never saw real accuracy problems. However if I was hunting Alaska or real cold country or parts of hottest Africa I’d ask the locals what to expect

Rick

That one statement right there tells us ALL we need to know about what you DON'T know about load development and component choices. If an ambient temp change trashes your "accuracy", you need to get back to the drawing board. Your load is NOT operating efficiently, and you are NOT sitting in the middle of a velocity plateau. What you have is a load that gave you an acceptable group one time under one set of conditions, and you called it "good". But when those conditions change, by your own admission above, it goes in the toilet.
When things are dialed in, a slight shift in point of impact (elevation) is all you should ever experience with a large temp swing. If you need to argue about that, it can very easily be proven via logic and common sense, and IIRC you've already been given the bullet points to THAT knowledge. Check your notes schoolboy.

Being one that replaced a barrel every January on a comp rifle I'd wager VERY heavy odds this cat doesn't shoot enough to erode a throat regardless what powder he uses.

AA 2015 is a ball powder?

Not gonna get off easy by deleting your dimwit comments troll.





Very common rookie ass mistake to work up a "load" in cold weather with zero regard to hotter temps during summer. Rookies get dazzled by a small group or two, and call it, then can't know why their shi t falls apart 6 months later. Especially amongst those who ignore conventional wisdom about matching a burn rate to load density.

Done right, loads don't "go out the window" from one season to the next. OF COURSE, you can repeat when the conditions repeat. The trick is, which you're obviously oblivious to, is making it shoot ALL year with nothing but a slight change of POI, IF THAT. Check zero, rock on.

You're shi t, ain't right, and will NEVER be right, because you're too hammer headed to understand how to even begin getting right.

It's a f ucking HOOT watching a joker like you sling "insults" like "stupid" and "clown" at somebody else. Priceless.

Ball/Spherical Double base powders that deliver more velocity out the muzzle tend to produce less throat erosion, so you can say generally speaking that most like to be near the max end of a load, admit it, I do, why else do manuals tell us to find the charge that nearly fills the case for the highest velocity ?

Stick single base can do it too, if the velocity isn't kept up out the muzzle. Considering Ball/Spherical powder is more consistent than most Stick powders, not all but most. Just because Additives are mixed in doesn't mean it's set in stone. You wanna keep the throat in tact more, keep up your load out the muzzle.

It doesn't matter where the midrange charge is for the 35 REMINGTON. I'm more interested in top velocity not top accuracy all the time through out the year. But case in point temperature does effect even a supposed stable powder like IMR 4895. Maybe in your way of life you have a ball bearing balanced on a pin head, I'm not really concerned about what YOU do.

You see you are so bent on breaking some ones balls WIITHOUT asking the right question and rather jump all over thier case first. Guess that's how you were treated growin up. I correspond with a guy here via email and he knows how to ask the right questions and be respectful about it. You on the other hand don't have an ounce of kindness that would fill a thimble.

So, troll, all your word salad BS so far has been about a 200 yard effective range max chambering that throws a brick with a brick's BC, and pressures that come NOWHERE near endangering a throat.

I've two 35 Rems here. Whacha wanna know?

Rhetorical question, of course.