Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Is runout relevant in fireforming?

I understand runout can affect precision accuracy. However, say I am running a new Winchester 30-06 case into a LEE die that has a long, tapered expander. I then seat a dummy round to magazine length reliability ( rifle has a long throat) I don't have a runout indicator thingy, but I can see some wobble when put in a drill. Am I OK to fireform and will they "straighten out" upon firing? I want to use 06 brass....help? I plan on loading the Speer 200 over 55-56gr IMR 4064 , not worried about accuracy too much, but I need good cases, ha

If you shoot a load that hot, you might not be able to open your bolt to extract the said straight case. I ran 53 of 4320 with a 150 and it was pretty dang stiff. Any load running close to max pressures will form you case. You might try 25 grains of red dot and some cream of wheat. Pack it down with paper towels and pop them off. It'll give you some good cases. Works with my 6 ack. Or, if accuracy is not desired and your shooting these into the dirt, fill that case to the shoulder with 4831 and seat the bullets jammed. It'll be roughly 54 to 56 grains and you'll have good cases. I rally don't think you can get in trouble with 4831 in an 06 case. Heck I've ran 60 and 61 grains through a 270 and 30-06 spout several times with 130s and 150s. Be careful though.

Thanks Pard. I used the warm load/bullet jammed into rifling for several wildcats. I was just trying to avoid either method. I have some 35 Whelen cases to neck down. According to Quikload 56 gr of 4064 should around 58K. Ive seen book data max out around 57.5gr. But I can baxk it down more for sure.:) Thanks
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If ones chamber is perfect, fireforming will generate a cartridge with no external indications of run out. If neck wall thickness is not consistent, however, loaded slugs will exhibit runout. I'd be inclined to do anal brass prep after fireforming.

What are you forming from your 06 brass?

IMO using a drill to check for runout probably won’t give accurate results; too much inherent wobble. Break down and buy a proper tool, and one for checking neck thickness.

Bullet runout can be checked pretty well by simply rolling the rounds across a smooth surface and watching the tips.

Thanks guys. I'm making simple 338/06 and everything goes easy enough. I am using new Win 30-06 cases ( and I new Lapua later) I also will neck down some new Remington 35 Whelen brass. I knew the drill wasn't kosher, I just couldnt help myself. I think what am seeing is bullet runout. Oh well, I'll shoot a small sample just to work out the bugs. I always figured if I had to jam a bullet/fire I may was well go with an Improved, ha, but I'm keeping this one stock. My grand daughter will inherit later on, it might be worth some money to her. I'm not after BR results, just 1.5" would tickle me pink. With this long throat, I'd have to use some 225s to jam properly, the 200 Speer bullet base only had about .25" seated when touching the Lands.

I have some 225 CX that did not shoot well in my last 338WM. I "could" try some of those jammed? I'll play with them...any suggestions appreciated.

If you are loading 338-06, and the rifle is chambered to the correct headspace dimension, you should be able to simply neck them up and shoot them. Run out may well affect the accuracy, but not to the extent that you won't get meaningful feedback on accuracy, and valuable practice with your rifle. GD

Thanks GD. I had ran the tapered expander up halfway into the sizing die to get all the case support I could. (unprimed, new brass) Lubed inside neck w/Imperial wax, so easy to neck up! I wasn't surprised by the long throat. I learned back in '95 I had to use Speer 225 to jam into my Mod 700 Classic 35W Ackley chamber to fireform. I just didn't think I'd need alot of forming for the standard 338-06 anyhow but the Speer 200 doesn't have enough shank in the case to hold the casehead against the boltface. Maybe the Speer 225 BT would be better for fireforming, load workup?

Yup. Neck up and fire away

I ask a couple of my old time reloading pals about the term runout.. We have never heard of it until lately. I have been loading my own for over 60 years and have rubbed elbows with some outstanding reloader in my time. Never once have I heard this term. What are they taling about?

Runout simply describes the amount that the bullet is eccentric or misaligned in relation to the rest of the cartridge. The result is that the bullet may not contact the rifling on center. The effect this has on accuracy is dependent on a number of things. chamber dimensions, throat configuration, the amount of bearing surface the bullet has, these are all contributory. GD

Well, the Lapua was much easier to neck up! It even had a slight " bolt crush" which fixes my headspace OCD, ha. I decided to just neck up and load as usual, gonna work up a load with 200 NAB/Big Game. I canceled the Norma 35 Whelen ( wouldn't you know it's Back Ordered come to find out!) I just ordered another 50 Lapua. Rifle has a pretty short magazine, but I can work with that. With Talley rings, Leupold 2.5x8 it weighs 6.75# ! Hot Dog! I'm jazzed. I'm going tot try to get to the range tomorrow. Oh yeah, someone had installed a Decelerator Pad and worked the trigger down to a crisp 2.25# !!! Loving it.

I did an initial fireforming on some 7-08 Lapua cases I necked down for my .260 Rem this summer. Bullet runout was atrocious and neck tension was all over the map - had bullet runout up to 13 thou. Loaded with 120 gr NBTs and A-Maxes and they shot sub-MOA at 200 yds. Couldn't believe it. The ONLY explanation I could come up with is that it was a Tikka T3

I just got back from the Range. I had loaded only 10 of the new Winchester brass with the 225 CX lightly jammed into the Leade. I had "planned" on using them to zero and do a short Break In with some EezOx. I bore sighted at 25yds, shot, then put up a target at 50yds, shot , then put out huge target at 100yds, shot, never, ever hit paper! ha. I had mounted my scope properly, checked again, all screws tight. Scope is new and proven. The brass formed just fine, but those crappy CX had a mind of their own. I could not get it or the 185 CX to shoot in my last 338WM. I had crimped them in the top groove for the magnum, which gave a bit of jump ( like I would do Hammers or Barnes) crap, crap...pure dee "6 month old cat excrement found under the bed smelly crap", lol I will never buy any more of them. BTW those 175 Hammers shot great in the magnum.
Next, I bore sighted again at 25 then shot at the 50yd with my first fouling shot of 200 NAB/Lapua/Big Game 57/CCI 250 (neither WLRM or Federal 210/215 fit primer pockets. I started with a Magnum primer as its a Ball Powder. The 58gr shot 1.25/3 shots, the 58.5 was 3", and the 59gr shows promise. First shot was close to POA, I waited 5 minutes between shots. Next shot went 2.5" lower. third shot went into the second! One hole. Pressure seemed very moderate. Since I can't seat out past 3.33 and still run through the magazine, and the group is vertical, I'm going to fall back to the CCI BR2 and see if it helps ignition. Going to try the 58 and 59 again, maybe 60gr. Love this Lapua brass!!! I just ran into the die and loaded. Rifle was sweet, sweet, never got real hot, never really showed a tendency to "walk" when warm. With its brake, recoil feels like a 7x57 with warm loads! Another "Jazzed" moment, especially for my 70yr old shoulder! lol Thanks again guys, I appreciate everyone's input. I will try to post a pic. Rev Jim

I stopped fire forming 25 years ago

Thanks greydog.