Setting up another AR-15 and wondering what LPVO to go with. I obviously want something reliable and repeatable (tracking POA/POI, zero retention) and has good eye relief, but also important is the eye box, easy to get behind. I've tried the NX8 1-8x24mm and for me the eye box is tight.
Wanting something with excellent FOV at lowest power variable (true 1x preferred) and no more than 8x top end. Illuminated reticle and FFP.
What's out there that checks all the boxes? Perhaps the NF ATACR?
NF ATACR. The Vortex 1-10x isn't bad, but I prefer the NF.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
I haven't found a FFP LPVO that I was happy with. The NF 1-8 has been the closest. They all suffer at the low end of magnification, which is the whole purpose of an LPVO. Before I went FFP 1-6ish I'd go FFP 2-10 with an offset dot.
If you're willing to go SFP there are a lot of excellent options.
The Razor 1-6 can be had with Mils but the JM1 reticle is the most useful AR BDC reticle I've found.
I'll second the Credo HX suggestion. It's daylight bright and the glass is excellent. They're lighter than the Razor and a good bit less expensive.
The Steiner 1-4 is a great budget option and can be had for $500ish used. Somebody (Eurooptic?) was closing out the Steiner 1-5s recently.
I have a Vudu 1-8 and love it. For 8x the eyebox is good, the glass is great, it's daylight bright, and the BDC is terrible.
I’ll third the Trijicon Credo HX 1-6 but the only one that is truly daylight bright is the one with hunter holds bdc reticle and the red dot, green is not good here. I have two Accupower’s with the red segmented circle, a big bold reticle with a fine aiming dot. I was sure I could shoot it as fast as the daylight bright dot on my HX but the timer proved me wrong.
There’s a lot of discussion on the best LPVO and a really good video on YouTube is out there.
Way more money than I want to spend but it is worth a look.
The other affordable LPVO that is getting great reviews is the Primary Arms Japan made PLX 1-8 but I haven’t seen one yet.
Looks like SFP has more options. Not a Vortex fan, but looking at the 1-6 Razor. The Kahles K16i has my attention, but requires an aftermarket turret straight out the gate. wtf Kahles??
I have owned the SWFA 1–6 HD for several years and I’m very happy with it. Great on one X and a very useful FFP rericle. Not daylight bright. Super durable and holds zero really well.
The never-ending flight Of future days. Paradise Lost. Book ii. Line 221
I have the SWFA 1-6 as well. I'm wanting something with actual daylight bright and a larger FOV. Razor and K16i seem to be the top 2 currently as the S&B CC is waaaayyy too much $$.
I'm a big fan of the Razor HD Gen II 1-6X24 with 3 of 'em in my gun room. For a more compact, lighter option, the Steiner P4Xi 1-4, goes on my AR pistols.
THE Sleeper,is the BTR Gen2 Mil/Mil Lit Bitch. Hint.
Locking turrets,mechanical zero stop,35 Mil erector,FFP,10yd parallax,daylight BRIGHT illumination,tracks,greedily holds zero,repeats,killer reticle(literally) and you'll be able to see your barrel in FOV at 2x. I've a "few". Hint.
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I'm a big fan of the Razor HD Gen II 1-6X24 with 3 of 'em in my gun room. For a more compact, lighter option, the Steiner P4Xi 1-4, goes on my AR pistols.
If lpvo is the answer, I think ur right.
I’m a bit off of the lpvo thing right now. Only have 3 left.
1-6.5 bushy sfp
1-6 razor gen 2 e
1-4 Steiner.
Until someone makes parallax, sub 20oz, zero stop 10mil open turrets I’m not testing any more. I can’t shoot carbines good enough, far enough to warrant mpvo’s and honestly aimpoints are just easier to shoot.
That said im Too cheap for the s&b 1-8 dual focal plane, and the atacr doesn’t open up any new doors for my use. Both are “better” but not exactly a huge enough step to warrant putting them on guns that never get used.
The Steiner 1-4 is such an enigma for me.. the build quality is definitely lacking, so are the turrets and the reticle is pretty meh. So is 4x is 2023
but that 17oz weight, bright dot, and good glass is appealing for lighter kind build.
OPone thing worth mentioning and I played around with it a bit this summer on the last nx8
Is to run the scope as far back as you can in the mount.
Over the years with cantilever mounts I’ve always tended to run the scope as far forward as I can, but the higher 1.93 made me realize that the eyebox and eye relief shrinks forward not backwards as the mag range goes up..
It’s not acog close but it’s more towards 2.75” then the normal 4”
That and the 1.93 keeps the eye and neck/jaw position more similar through different shooting positions.
Nightforce screwed up not putting the fc-Dmx reticle with the uncapped elevation turrets edition.
SFP will always make for a faster optic in a LPVO by nature of design. In regards to "true 1x" you may never get it but what you are really after is unity at 1x so you have to adjust ocular focus at 1x, not the top end. I'm something that is 1-4x, 1-6x, etc SFP is the way to go because you are shooting bottom and top end. In the LPVO topping out at 8x or 10x I tend to want FFP because mine will be paid with clip-on night sights and thermals so want the full mag range to have a true reticle.
Vortex: The Razor 1-6x is really quite good but I have broken four of them, have a buddy who has broken four, and have seen others break: in my cases (and at at least one of my buddy's) the fiber optic filament came out of alignment with the reticle so it became a crosshair with a line and dot in the lower right or left quadrant. I think the 1-6x looks better (image) than the 1-10x and has a more forgiving reticle viewing area but the 1-10x has a better reticle and illumination design. In a pure speed gun I would still opt for the 1-6x but am using the 1-10x on a DMR match gun.
NF: ATACR will always be faster than NX8 because of design. Neither is as fast as the Razor. I have taken these all over the world and never broken one. I don't love the illumination look because of how it is designed; it appears to "flicker" if you aren't directly behind the gun and I think they have a little more edge distortion than others. The FC-DMx is my favorite reticle in a LPVO currently.
Swaro/Kahles: They are SFP, light, beautiful image, generous reticle viewing area, and very fast with good reticle options and I like the illumination. I would take them over a Razor 1-6x, no contest, if you have the cash. I absolutely love mine. I use the circle/dot reticle on my PCC and .300BO for short range deer on small tracts and the 3GR for everything else.
Run the vortex lvpo on my 450bm bear baiting and it holds up great and holds zero no problem. That’s with it being hunted with hard and being bounced around a lot getting there.
I have a few, 1 - 4, 1-6, 1-8 1.5-6 swfa, leupold, Steiner, trijicon, Zeiss. Oddly enough even though it’s the cheapest, the little SWFA 1-4 is my favorite, I guess I have confidence in it. It’s an older scope, don’t know if they still make them as well as they used too.
also I am not an expert, just a hunter and casual shooter, if I was looking today it would probably be another trijicon.
I haven't found a FFP LPVO that I was happy with. The NF 1-8 has been the closest. They all suffer at the low end of magnification, which is the whole purpose of an LPVO. Before I went FFP 1-6ish I'd go FFP 2-10 with an offset dot.
If you're willing to go SFP there are a lot of excellent options.
The Razor 1-6 can be had with Mils but the JM1 reticle is the most useful AR BDC reticle I've found.
I'll second the Credo HX suggestion. It's daylight bright and the glass is excellent. They're lighter than the Razor and a good bit less expensive.
The Steiner 1-4 is a great budget option and can be had for $500ish used. Somebody (Eurooptic?) was closing out the Steiner 1-5s recently.
I have a Vudu 1-8 and love it. For 8x the eyebox is good, the glass is great, it's daylight bright, and the BDC is terrible.
These are good suggestions.
I have the Razor 1-6x24 Gen2 E with the JM1 reticle and use it all the time in rifle matches.
I also have the Steiner 1-4 p4xi and it's been very good too for a lot less money and less weight.
I see absolutely no reason to use a FFP scope for an LVPO application.
That about totally defeats the purpose of a fast target acquisition at low power, & at the longer ranges for that kind of setup SFP is a moot point.
YMMV
MM
I agree. If the shot is hard enough that I need my subtensions, I'll be at max magnification with a 1-4 or 1-6.
I took a class with Ridgeline Defense and they're big fans of the ATACR 1-8. But they prefer keeping it on 3x'ish on the bottom end and use an offset dot. They're essentially using it as a 2 or 3-8 than a 1-8. But they like the ATACR enough to do that. I have a SFP Vudu 1-8 and I will say that once you get into 8x at the top end there are times when I've thought a FFP would be useful. I haven't made the switch, but it has been a consideration.
I see absolutely no reason to use a FFP scope for an LVPO application.
That about totally defeats the purpose of a fast target acquisition at low power, & at the longer ranges for that kind of setup SFP is a moot point.
YMMV
MM
I agree. If the shot is hard enough that I need my subtensions, I'll be at max magnification with a 1-4 or 1-6.
I took a class with Ridgeline Defense and they're big fans of the ATACR 1-8. But they prefer keeping it on 3x'ish on the bottom end and use an offset dot. They're essentially using it as a 2 or 3-8 than a 1-8. But they like the ATACR enough to do that. I have a SFP Vudu 1-8 and I will say that once you get into 8x at the top end there are times when I've thought a FFP would be useful. I haven't made the switch, but it has been a consideration.
If one is willing to run an offset dot and not use the 1X then maybe a 2-10 or so with a bigger objective brings more to the table.
I think there a sort of basic agreement that SFP fits best in optic you can utilize the max zoom most any time precision is required. If the objective is to small to drive Max Zoom most times then FFP might be better.
If the FFP reticle is pretty useless at Low Zoom it sure does reduce the utility of the optic.
Last edited by JohnBurns; 01/01/24.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
I’ve heard FFP scopes were more rugged but I’ve not understood the need to have it in a LPVO. And running an offset red dot with one defeats the purpose of a daylight bright dot in your scope and true 1x.
As John said, if you wanna use an offset dot, stick a bigger scope on it.
