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... And bonded bullets tend to expand wider than non-bonded bullets, whether Partitions or monolithics like Barnes TSXs. ... That is surprising. Why is that? I assumed that, for example, with the same bullet diameter, weight, and velocity, a NBT would expand more than an AB. Is that not correct? It's not, as a general rule. The frontal jacket of Partitions tends to fold back alongside the rear jacket/core as it expands, while the frontal jacket of AccuBonds is "supported" by the bonded core. Thus expanded AccuBonds tend to resemble an actual mushroom, wider than the "laid-back" jacket of expanded Partitions. That said, Accubonds do penetrate very much like Partitions--they just don't pop through the hide on the far side as often. But even then there are exceptions. One I've used a lot, both in North America and Africa, is the 250-grain AccuBond from the 9.3x62--and like Partitions the heavier, larger diameter AccuBonds are designed to retain a higher percentage of weight. The only one I've recovered was from a follow-up shot on a 7-1/2-foot Alaskan grizzly, as it ran angling away after taking the first shot through both lungs. That bullet landed in the middle of the right ribs and was found under the hide over the left side of the bear's neck, retaining a little over 80% of its weight. Thanks for the response and info.
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This conversation is exactly where it needs to be.
Yall are now talking about the profile of the rear jackets of partitions and A-frames. Thank you. Hopefully, the readership will pause, before believing that just lead hardness alone, is some sort of one-up over the excellent Swift a-frames.
And just like I did, anyone else is more than welcome to receive this second opinion directly from Patrick at Swift.
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Some folks worry about really dumb shi t.
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I use the 150g Partitions in my 270 for elk, deer and bear. Never failed me. I use 300g A-Frames in my 375 Weatherby, a mazing bullet. This one still weighs 299.5 g after penetrating a 900 lb brown bear diagonally hit him right behind the shoulder, quartering shot facing me, at 13 yards [img]http://i.imgur.com/5NwQ1PZ.jpg?3[/img][img]http://i.imgur.com/c5FiRIO.jpg?1[/img]
Last edited by colorado; 10/27/23.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
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Some folks worry about really dumb shi t. For sure
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Some folks worry about really dumb shi t. For sure Give me an A-Frame or Partition or TSX or whatever from 270 to 416 and I'll happily go hunt anything up here(and have..). I mean I have my faves but really this thread is splitting some blonde ones.
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Preface: I have no dog in this fight.
Seems smart to get multiple takes on bullet design, including from the manufacturer. But wouldn't it be strange if the guy from Swift *didn't* tell you A-frames are better than partitions? (I'm not saying he's wrong. Just not sure he's the objective, slam dunk source here, re: he isn't just paid by the company, he also compensates writers to talk about his products... which seems to be why you DQ'd Mule Deer's take.)
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But penetration does not totally depend on retained weight--in fact far from it. The frontal area of the expanded bullet is at least as important. Have proven this many times in penetration tests with various bullets--and on game. And bonded bullets tend to expand wider than non-bonded bullets, whether Partitions or monolithics like Barnes TSXs. I remember Gary Sciuchetti's massive .308/180 bullet test - the 180 Partition out-penetrated the 180 Swift A Frame in his tests for this very reason.
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But penetration does not totally depend on retained weight--in fact far from it. The frontal area of the expanded bullet is at least as important. Have proven this many times in penetration tests with various bullets--and on game. And bonded bullets tend to expand wider than non-bonded bullets, whether Partitions or monolithics like Barnes TSXs. I remember Gary Sciuchetti's massive .308/180 bullet test - the 180 Partition out-penetrated the 180 Swift A Frame in his tests for this very reason. That was a real piece of work. I still have the pull-out from the magazine.
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Possibly off topic but for a while Nosler made what they called the Partition Gold which had a steel cup in the rear core to stop the bulging. I used them in 150 grain out of a 270. Yes it was a fine bullet, I never was able to recover one.
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Interesting results there Mainer. I've got some A Frames loaded, but haven't killed with them yet. Everything I've ever seen about their performance indicates they do indeed swell at the rear core, generally, in a way that partitions do not. A friend of mine killed a huge brown bear broadside at about 7 yards with a 300gr .375 A Frame. Seemed to work exceptionally! The nearest thing to a "failure" I've had with partitions both involved 300gr .375s. The first was on a bull moose that slipped its core, but still managed to come to rest in the neck, up against the vertebrae after traveling through about four feet of animal on a quartering away shot as the bull ran off. The second "failure" was on a brown bear at 2 yards. I hit her as she was jumping up at me, right at the junction of the neck and chest. The bullet wrecked the top of the heart and lung piping before pulping about 8 inches of spine. It never exited, and I couldn't find any remains of it aside from a few fragments. Anymore, I'd be happy to use either bullet and let pricing, availability, and individual rifle accuracy be my decision factors. ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/medium/237233.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/gallery/80/full/237234.jpg) Front core gone is no real surprise, that's what a Partition was designed to do, smear away as it penetrates so as not to hinder penetration. Rear core gone, that's not supposed to happen. Another partition fallacy. A bullet shedding 30% of it's weight does nothing to help penetration. Piss poor expansion (like the 30 cal 220 partition) helps penetration though. It makes about as much sense as marrying a prostitute from vegas. A partition will out penetrate an Aframe 9 time out of 10. Frontal diameter influences penetration or lack there of much more so than weight. I have a 30 caliber 200gr Aframe that is squashed damn near flat. Was fored from a 300 win mag into a Canadian Whitetail.
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What makes Nosler think their Partitions are worth the exorbitant prices of late? They must have joined lips with that other Oregon company over in Beaverton. No thanks.
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I've always liked the 150g Partitions in my 270 Win. I load them up to 3000 fps. They still expand out to 600 yards, the rear half penetrates, while the front half disintegrates at close range causing massive damage. I've taken elk out to 500 yards, some at 15 yards, 7 bears with this combination. Never failed me. That being said I'm partial to A-Frames in my 375 Weatherby, and TSX's in my 500 Jeffery. So many good bullet choices. To be honest, I wish both Nosler and Switft would have a solid boattail base added to their Partitions and A-Frames. The original Partitions had a closed base, I'm guessing it was signficantly cheaper to leave the gap there is now.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
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Jeeze. Overanalyzing of bullets recovered from dead game is usually a wintertime pursuit. You guys need to get out and go hunting!
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I've been on my soapbox for years about finding Partition shot deer. Yes, there was always a dead one at the end of the trail. The problem with me has been always finding the blood trail. That soft front half blows off the bullet and turns the deer's lungs to mush, but the back half going out the back of the deer or the elk that I've shot with them has folded back and the exit wound is not as large as I'd like to leave a good blood trail. I've since switched to Interlock's, SST's or BT's and get way more DRT results than I ever got with Partitions. These days I like DRT results like when my buddy asked when he saw a deer that I'd shot with an Interlock. "What the hell did you shoot that with?"
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I've been on my soapbox for years about finding Partition shot deer. Yes, there was always a dead one at the end of the trail. The problem with me has been always finding the blood trail. That soft front half blows off the bullet and turns the deer's lungs to mush, but the back half going out the back of the deer or the elk that I've shot with them has folded back and the exit wound is not as large as I'd like to leave a good blood trail. I've since switched to Interlock's, SST's or BT's and get way more DRT results than I ever got with Partitions. These days I like DRT results like when my buddy asked when he saw a deer that I'd shot with an Interlock. "What the hell did you shoot that with?" You want fast kills or two holes? Can't really consistently have both. For a measly deer I would use BT's and not break a sweat. As for exit holes being small. TTSX and LRX results in small holes too. Especially if you blow the petals off from use in a high velocity cartridge.
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I was mulling this over from my deer stand today. I've gone full circle from hard, heavy for caliber premium bullets to medium weight soft bullets. (Core-Lokt, Interlock, SST and BT) I hunt the thick stuff and if I don't get a DRT with a h/l shot, I at least want my deer to look mortally wounded for the short amount of time that I can watch them after the shot. Late in the day with dusk coming on fast or no snow I've had too many of those hide and go seek recoveries using a bullet (Partition and TSX) that didn't open up a big exit wound and give me a decent blood trail. Brush deflection happens and I don't like that feeling of did I hit or miss.
My other auto is a .45
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To be honest, I wish both Nosler and Switft would have a solid boattail base added to their Partitions and A-Frames. The original Partitions had a closed base, I'm guessing it was signficantly cheaper to leave the gap there is now. Where did you get that information about the original Partitions? It isn't described anywhere in John Nosler's book Going Ballistic, published in 2005. In that book he explains that the very first Partitions, the ones he shot the moose with in BC, had cores in both the front and rear end made of molten lead, which he poured into each end of the bullets--because he didn't have any way of inserting and fitting cold lead. I have also owned some of the first "red box" Partitions he commercially produced in Ashland, before the company moved to Bend. It was complete box of 150-grain .270s, which I eventually gave to his grandson John, because they were looking for some original bullets, partly to display. They had "open" bases.
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How would a rear core be put in a bullet with a solid base and solid partition?
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I researched it a bit and I was wrong. I did find my 270 Win handload in an old Handloader Magazine article featuring Jack O'Conner. 150g Partition 58.5g H4831 CCI Magnum primers Way too hot by today's conservative standards. I get 3020 fps out of my BDL with that load. Like I say too hot by today's standards.
Regards,
Chuck
"There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit"
Ghost And The Darkness
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