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Campfire Ranger
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My grandpa used them religiously in his 99 savage 300 savage. Same here, I still have a partial box of his 180’s.
Semper Fi
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My grandpa used them religiously in his 99 savage 300 savage. Same here, I still have a partial box of his 180’s. wouldn't know what era or how many cannelures ?
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
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I used my Lee Hardness tester and the Winchester Silver Tip and the Remington Corelokt are off the chart for lead hardness at the base and near the tip. Guess it needs to be that soft BHN would be like below 8, pretty soft. I believe that Remington dicked around with jacket thickness of the CL over time as well.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Joined: Aug 2021
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In my experience with Silvertips, sometimes the deer drops within 5 yards and sometimes you need to chase them across 2 counties. Mostly they work, mostly. I liked them in 30-30s. ^^^^ THIS ^^^^ My personal experience as well. The bullets did some strange things on impact & penetration or they performed perfect.
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Last edited by anothergun; 10/30/23.
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Joined: Jan 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 38,926 Likes: 11 |
I believe that the truth is that the 2nd generation was a step back from the 1st rather than an improvement. The same situation existed with the Speer Grand Slam.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Campfire Ranger
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I used my Lee Hardness tester and the Winchester Silver Tip and the Remington Corelokt are off the chart for lead hardness at the base and near the tip. Guess it needs to be that soft BHN would be like below 8, pretty soft. At the base, exposed lead??
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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It is possible for lead alloys to change hardness with age. That is a factor to consider.
Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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It is possible for lead alloys to change hardness with age. That is a factor to consider. I wonder if they get a little harder at tip when the form them in the die since they are compressing the lead.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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They will work harden as well like other metals.
Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet. The closest alloy to 20 BHN is linotype at 22. Which I kinda doubt is used anywhere in a cup and core bullet. I'm not a jacketed bullet maker so I might be wrong, but I've cast and shot a LOT of actual linotype and it's not exactly mushroom friendly.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
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20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet. And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base.
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Did you heat the bullet as you cross sectioned it?
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
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Did you heat the bullet as you cross sectioned it? NO ! LOL just filed it open.
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18,957 Likes: 2 |
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip. I must have missed that. Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 10/30/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Campfire Ranger
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I’m getting ready to toss em ! 🤣 Keep them as a vintage box. The Silvertips were terrible...Awful! It was a marketing move, nothing more. Winchester invented the frangible big game bullet, the Silvertip. Hunters in the know used Remington Cor-Lokt ammo.
Hunt with Class and Classics
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Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet. And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base. Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong.
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