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I’m getting ready to toss em ! 🤣 Keep them as a vintage box. The Silvertips were terrible...Awful! It was a marketing move, nothing more. Winchester invented the frangible big game bullet, the Silvertip. Hunters in the know used Remington Cor-Lokt ammo. A guy who is trying to sell the worst BS ever.....there's mixed reviews about good and bad, but do you really expect me to believe such BS as yours ?? I think your mother dropped you on your head recently. And Hornady developed the SST.... strictly a marketing move right ? I killed enough deer to know the front end, while rapidly expanding, had a rear end that held up. You take the cake of expertise.
Last edited by anothergun; 10/30/23.
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip. I must have missed that. Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences? I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either.
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip. I must have missed that. Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences? I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either. Can't make this stuff up!
Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip. I must have missed that. Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences? I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either. Wasn't talking lead only. I said other construction differences. You had mentioned 2 cannelures vs 1. I just wanted to see if it had 2 inner locking rings or not. Posting a pic wouldn't hurt, just let's everyone see how it is constructed. What Sierra bullet has a dual hardness core?? May give em a call tomorrow and see if this is something new for them.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet. And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base. Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong. There was 1st Generation and 2nd Generation, so I'll take a stab at I have 1st and 2nd. And the 2nd has mixed alloy cores, yes. 1969.............. In 1969........ Bob Hayden joined Sierra as Manager of Operations for The Leisure Group, who at the time was Sierra’s parent company. An engineer by trade and an avid hunter.... you think an advid hunter fooled around with non dual hardness bullet ? and all lead jacketed hunting bullet and another company didn't catch wind of it ? Seriously? Really ?? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK, an engineer by trade. would settle for that ?
Last edited by anothergun; 10/30/23.
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20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet. And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base. Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong. There was 1st Generation and 2nd Generation, so I'll take a stab at I have 1st and 2nd. And the 2nd has mixed alloy cores, yes. 1969.............. In 1969........ Bob Hayden joined Sierra as Manager of Operations for The Leisure Group, who at the time was Sierra’s parent company. An engineer by trade and an avid hunter.... you think an advid hunter fooled around with non dual hardness bullet ? and all lead jacketed hunting bullet and another company didn't catch wind of it ? Seriously? Really ?? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK, an engineer by trade. would settle for that ? Aren't the cores of most jacketed bullets a mixed alloy core? Be odd to be pure lead or pure antimony. Difference between mixed alloy and dual core.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip. I must have missed that. Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences? I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either. Wasn't talking lead only. I said other construction differences. You had mentioned 2 cannelures vs 1. I just wanted to see if it had 2 inner locking rings or not. Posting a pic wouldn't hurt, just let's everyone see how it is constructed. What Sierra bullet has a dual hardness core?? May give em a call tomorrow and see if this is something new for them. That's what they told me years ago... dual hardness, yes. Inner locking rings? There's no inter locking ring. LOL LOL guess you don't really don't know what cannelures are for then. I don't need to show you pictures, google it.
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip. I must have missed that. Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences? I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either. Can't make this stuff up! Oh... and you think I'm making this up ???? WTF? Do you know if 2nd generation silver tip didn't have an improved core ? I'm sorry are you making this up ??
Last edited by anothergun; 10/30/23.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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...
Aren't the cores of most jacketed bullets a mixed alloy core? Be odd to be pure lead or pure antimony.
Difference between mixed alloy and dual core. Barnes originals excellent point
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your 60's bullet... one or two cannelure? and the 80's, one or two ?[/quote]
I couldn’t tell you on those two, factory ammo, never broke it down. The 130 grain .270 had one, the 100 gr. 250 had two.
Old70
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Actually, there are 3 different Silvertips. The first versions used a nickel silver cap that was quite hard. The cap extended all the way to the base of the bullet. This was a true controlled expansion bullet. Then around 1950 IIRC the nickel silver jacket was shortened internally to approximately halfway to the base. Then shortly afterwards the hard nickel silver cap was replaced with a thin aluminum tip that was shortened to the point it just meets the copper jacket. These are known a Winchester grenade with MANY failures. With the completely different construction designs and material is a clue to why some had great results and others dismal. I remember a gun writer using a 300 Win Mag and newer Silvertips to shoot a porcupine and the bullet blew up and failed to exit the little quill pig. I think it was Boddington that used a 375 H&H with 300 grain Silvertips to shoot a grizzly. Many broadside shots and none penetrated the first layer of skin, and none entered the lung cavity.
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guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested. Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness? I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip. I must have missed that. Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences? I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either. Wasn't talking lead only. I said other construction differences. You had mentioned 2 cannelures vs 1. I just wanted to see if it had 2 inner locking rings or not. Posting a pic wouldn't hurt, just let's everyone see how it is constructed. What Sierra bullet has a dual hardness core?? May give em a call tomorrow and see if this is something new for them. That's what they told me years ago... dual hardness, yes. Inner locking rings? There's no inter locking ring. LOL LOL guess you don't really don't know what cannelures are for then. I don't need to show you pictures, google it. I know exactly what a cannelure is for. It's for crimping and can be used to lock jacket and core together. Do you think it doesn't deform and push a bit of a ring into the core?? How do you think Remington came up with the Corelokt bullet?? Yeah it has an hourglass shaped jacket but also when they knurled the crimp ring it pushed some of that jacket into the core.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 10/30/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Pretty common knowledge but I will post a pic for you to see. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/LXqNPtdk/Screenshot-20231030-184230-Duck-Duck-Go.jpg)
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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And another. Notice where cannelure is and where the jacket and core are semi locked together. ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/zDCTctkb/Screenshot-20231030-184829-Duck-Duck-Go.jpg)
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
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Actually, there are 3 different Silvertips. The first versions used a nickel silver cap that was quite hard. The cap extended all the way to the base of the bullet. This was a true controlled expansion bullet. Then around 1950 IIRC the nickel silver jacket was shortened internally to approximately halfway to the base. Then shortly afterwards the hard nickel silver cap was replaced with a thin aluminum tip that was shortened to the point it just meets the copper jacket. These are known a Winchester grenade with MANY failures. With the completely different construction designs and material is a clue to why some had great results and others dismal. I remember a gun writer using a 300 Win Mag and newer Silvertips to shoot a porcupine and the bullet blew up and failed to exit the little quill pig. I think it was Boddington that used a 375 H&H with 300 grain Silvertips to shoot a grizzly. Many broadside shots and none penetrated the first layer of skin, and none entered the lung cavity. Those are the ones I was referring to. Anothergunner might be ignorant of this bullet's failure rate. I should have been specific as to this iteration. If he was defending it he's pure BS, but I think he knows of the third generation. It's too bad a manufacturer develops something good, then they turn it into krap and sells reputation, not quality.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Actually, there are 3 different Silvertips. The first versions used a nickel silver cap that was quite hard. The cap extended all the way to the base of the bullet. This was a true controlled expansion bullet. Then around 1950 IIRC the nickel silver jacket was shortened internally to approximately halfway to the base. Then shortly afterwards the hard nickel silver cap was replaced with a thin aluminum tip that was shortened to the point it just meets the copper jacket. These are known a Winchester grenade with MANY failures. With the completely different construction designs and material is a clue to why some had great results and others dismal. I remember a gun writer using a 300 Win Mag and newer Silvertips to shoot a porcupine and the bullet blew up and failed to exit the little quill pig. I think it was Boddington that used a 375 H&H with 300 grain Silvertips to shoot a grizzly. Many broadside shots and none penetrated the first layer of skin, and none entered the lung cavity. Those are the ones I was referring to. Anothergunner might be ignorant of this bullet's failure rate. I should have been specific as to this iteration. If he was defending it he's pure BS, but I think he knows of the third generation. It's too bad a manufacturer develops something good, then they turn it into krap and sells reputation, not quality. Without letting the buyer in on it.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
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20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet. And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base. Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong. There was 1st Generation and 2nd Generation, so I'll take a stab at I have 1st and 2nd. And the 2nd has mixed alloy cores, yes. 1969.............. In 1969........ Bob Hayden joined Sierra as Manager of Operations for The Leisure Group, who at the time was Sierra’s parent company. An engineer by trade and an avid hunter.... you think an advid hunter fooled around with non dual hardness bullet ? and all lead jacketed hunting bullet and another company didn't catch wind of it ? Seriously? Really ?? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK, an engineer by trade. would settle for that ? That is a lot of words to tell the internet that you are an idiot.
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All the success stories, you calling them liars ? Just because there were failures, the bullet is a failure? And the bullet that didn't make it through a Moose shoulder failed at close range drove someone to a lathe to make a bullet to make it through instead of going behind the shoulder like your suppose to ?
Or a knuckle head loads a varmint .30 caliber bullet and it blows up on a yearling deer ?? Had to be chased down the mountain across the road to the river to be finished off?
Countless people use a 22-250 with a varmint bullet making unethical shots at big game ?
I believe half of what I read and half of what I hear, especially on forums like this by meatballs like you.
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Can't make this stuff up! Solid GOLD!!
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
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Pretty common knowledge but I will post a pic for you to see. AND ?
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