A few years back someone gave me some silver tipped Winchesters bullets. I'm not one to collect stuff, so I'm gonna load up some shortly for a deer and black bear hunt. I have some that have double cannelure and some with one. Same weight, 180 grain flat base. I know the cannelures only serve to crimp and two, well, different seating depths, but just wondering if Winchester used then for a added jacket core lock. I sectioned one and see the aluminum cap and jacket runs down and stops at the first cannelures, an aid in expansion? I read that they come apart just like a cup and core bullet but wondering if the 180's might do better on deer and bear. Considering bears hide and fat and tougher bone, they might fair well. Ain't gonna hot rod a load considering it's gonna be shot out of my Remington 760 .30-06.
Years ago the old timers swore by Silvertips, I shot mostly Power Point 180's for whitetails. Back in the day 180's were the bullet of choice for deer hunting, it was thought that they "bucked the brush" better than lighter bullets. Lately if I'm using a .30 cal. I shoot 165gr. bullets, they provide excellent accuracy and superior killing power.
I've used them in .308" and .375". Impression is they're softer than Power Points and Core-lokts. Not as soft as Speer BTs. They expand reliably even with slight resistance. Not something to drive much over 2700 fps, and not something for steep quartering away placement. JMHO.
I've used them in .308" and .375". Impression is they're softer than Power Points and Core-lokts. Not as soft as Speer BTs. They expand reliably even with slight resistance. Not something to drive much over 2700 fps, and not something for steep quartering away placement. JMHO.
Any 180 load I ever used drives at 2700 fps. You had Speer 180 come apart ? The lighter ones the core came out of the jacket but not until the core fully expanded in wet TP books.
It was a Speer 270 gr .375" driven to 2650 MV. Hit a fairly big whitetail, didn't get through the off shoulder, and was in pieces. Probable impact velocity 2500 fps. Like the bullet fine, but loading it to 2450 MV now. Friend had similar experience with the .308" 150 gr. from a .300 Sav. Not sure MV but likely sub-2700 fps.
In my experience with Silvertips, sometimes the deer drops within 5 yards and sometimes you need to chase them across 2 counties. Mostly they work, mostly. I liked them in 30-30s.
I think that there were two generations of Silver Tips. If I have the story straight, the originals were advertised as (and were) deeper penetrating than PowerPoints. The 2nd generation ones did not, although Winchester (in the standard way that bullet manufacturers operate) never rescinded the original claim nor told consumers of the change.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
I haev nothing against Silvertips; easily the neatest looking hunting bullet ever made. I may have used a Silvertip .308 for my first deer about 1963.
The late Bob Hagel, certainly among the best of the gun/handloading/ hunting writers and bonafide true experts had some unkind things to say about Silvertips for a hunting bullet. He had plenty of experience.
I think that there were two generations of Silver Tips. If I have the story straight, the originals were advertised as (and were) deeper penetrating than PowerPoints. The 2nd generation ones did not, although Winchester (in the standard way that bullet manufacturers operate) never rescinded the original claim nor told consumers of the change.
Odd they would not be improved. Unless the 1st ones were so popular that the 2nd were mass produced to the point of bad QC.
I used my Lee Hardness tester and the Winchester Silver Tip and the Remington Corelokt are off the chart for lead hardness at the base and near the tip. Guess it needs to be that soft BHN would be like below 8, pretty soft.
I used four different Silvertips on game. The first was a 1960s vintage .308/180 gr. It expanded readily and penetrated through the several smallish white tails I shot with them, broadside heart/lung shots. The second was an 80s vintage .270/140 gr. Fragmented in the heart lung region in a broadside shot on a midsize whitetail. Didn’t hit the far shoulder. Further testing it failed to fully penetrate an 8” pine. Third was a 60s vintage .270/130. I found no evidence of expansion on a neck shot 110 pound doe. She dropped. Third was a 60s vintage .250 savage/100 gr. Good expansion full penetration of the neck of a whitetail. So, they have been inconsistent in my use. I currently only have one box left, .30-06/150 loaded with my standard Garand load, in case I hunt with it.
very inconsistent bullet. Wonder how the lead in Rem CL and Win ST are basically the same but the CL is reliable with the same core hardness as the ST. Weird. Got to be a harder jacket then the ST's.
I used four different Silvertips on game. The first was a 1960s vintage .308/180 gr. It expanded readily and penetrated through the several smallish white tails I shot with them, broadside heart/lung shots. The second was an 80s vintage .270/140 gr. Fragmented in the heart lung region in a broadside shot on a midsize whitetail. Didn’t hit the far shoulder. Further testing it failed to fully penetrate an 8” pine. Third was a 60s vintage .270/130. I found no evidence of expansion on a neck shot 110 pound doe. She dropped. Third was a 60s vintage .250 savage/100 gr. Good expansion full penetration of the neck of a whitetail. So, they have been inconsistent in my use. I currently only have one box left, .30-06/150 loaded with my standard Garand load, in case I hunt with it.
Old70
your 60's bullet... one or two cannelure? and the 80's, one or two ?
I used my Lee Hardness tester and the Winchester Silver Tip and the Remington Corelokt are off the chart for lead hardness at the base and near the tip. Guess it needs to be that soft BHN would be like below 8, pretty soft.
I believe that Remington dicked around with jacket thickness of the CL over time as well.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
In my experience with Silvertips, sometimes the deer drops within 5 yards and sometimes you need to chase them across 2 counties. Mostly they work, mostly. I liked them in 30-30s.
^^^^ THIS ^^^^ My personal experience as well. The bullets did some strange things on impact & penetration or they performed perfect.
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
I believe that the truth is that the 2nd generation was a step back from the 1st rather than an improvement. The same situation existed with the Speer Grand Slam.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
I used my Lee Hardness tester and the Winchester Silver Tip and the Remington Corelokt are off the chart for lead hardness at the base and near the tip. Guess it needs to be that soft BHN would be like below 8, pretty soft.
At the base, exposed lead??
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet.
The closest alloy to 20 BHN is linotype at 22. Which I kinda doubt is used anywhere in a cup and core bullet. I'm not a jacketed bullet maker so I might be wrong, but I've cast and shot a LOT of actual linotype and it's not exactly mushroom friendly.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
I must have missed that.
Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 10/30/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
It was a marketing move, nothing more. Winchester invented the frangible big game bullet, the Silvertip. Hunters in the know used Remington Cor-Lokt ammo.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet.
And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base.
Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong.
It was a marketing move, nothing more. Winchester invented the frangible big game bullet, the Silvertip. Hunters in the know used Remington Cor-Lokt ammo.
A guy who is trying to sell the worst BS ever.....there's mixed reviews about good and bad, but do you really expect me to believe such BS as yours ?? I think your mother dropped you on your head recently.
And Hornady developed the SST.... strictly a marketing move right ? I killed enough deer to know the front end, while rapidly expanding, had a rear end that held up. You take the cake of expertise.
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
I must have missed that.
Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either.
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
I must have missed that.
Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either.
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
I must have missed that.
Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either.
Wasn't talking lead only.
I said other construction differences. You had mentioned 2 cannelures vs 1. I just wanted to see if it had 2 inner locking rings or not.
Posting a pic wouldn't hurt, just let's everyone see how it is constructed.
What Sierra bullet has a dual hardness core?? May give em a call tomorrow and see if this is something new for them.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet.
And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base.
Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong.
There was 1st Generation and 2nd Generation, so I'll take a stab at I have 1st and 2nd. And the 2nd has mixed alloy cores, yes.
1969..............
In 1969........ Bob Hayden joined Sierra as Manager of Operations for The Leisure Group, who at the time was Sierra’s parent company. An engineer by trade and an avid hunter.... you think an advid hunter fooled around with non dual hardness bullet ? and all lead jacketed hunting bullet and another company didn't catch wind of it ? Seriously? Really ?? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK, an engineer by trade. would settle for that ?
20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet.
And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base.
Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong.
There was 1st Generation and 2nd Generation, so I'll take a stab at I have 1st and 2nd. And the 2nd has mixed alloy cores, yes.
1969..............
In 1969........ Bob Hayden joined Sierra as Manager of Operations for The Leisure Group, who at the time was Sierra’s parent company. An engineer by trade and an avid hunter.... you think an advid hunter fooled around with non dual hardness bullet ? and all lead jacketed hunting bullet and another company didn't catch wind of it ? Seriously? Really ?? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK, an engineer by trade. would settle for that ?
Aren't the cores of most jacketed bullets a mixed alloy core? Be odd to be pure lead or pure antimony.
Difference between mixed alloy and dual core.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
I must have missed that.
Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either.
Wasn't talking lead only.
I said other construction differences. You had mentioned 2 cannelures vs 1. I just wanted to see if it had 2 inner locking rings or not.
Posting a pic wouldn't hurt, just let's everyone see how it is constructed.
What Sierra bullet has a dual hardness core?? May give em a call tomorrow and see if this is something new for them.
That's what they told me years ago... dual hardness, yes. Inner locking rings? There's no inter locking ring. LOL LOL guess you don't really don't know what cannelures are for then. I don't need to show you pictures, google it.
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
I must have missed that.
Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either.
Can't make this stuff up!
Oh... and you think I'm making this up ???? WTF? Do you know if 2nd generation silver tip didn't have an improved core ? I'm sorry are you making this up ??
Actually, there are 3 different Silvertips. The first versions used a nickel silver cap that was quite hard. The cap extended all the way to the base of the bullet. This was a true controlled expansion bullet. Then around 1950 IIRC the nickel silver jacket was shortened internally to approximately halfway to the base. Then shortly afterwards the hard nickel silver cap was replaced with a thin aluminum tip that was shortened to the point it just meets the copper jacket. These are known a Winchester grenade with MANY failures. With the completely different construction designs and material is a clue to why some had great results and others dismal. I remember a gun writer using a 300 Win Mag and newer Silvertips to shoot a porcupine and the bullet blew up and failed to exit the little quill pig. I think it was Boddington that used a 375 H&H with 300 grain Silvertips to shoot a grizzly. Many broadside shots and none penetrated the first layer of skin, and none entered the lung cavity.
guess technology came pretty far since then. O'Connor said if he had a Partition hw would have used them, but he had Rem bronze tips, silver tips, and early Speer bullets. Being good friends with Vernon Speer, guess who's bullets he used the most ?
He impressed Les Bowman with an Elk kill. He didn't mention which bullet he used other than a 150 grainer. Back then I assume construction wasn't like it is now, with cup and core bullets. The only improvement on Speer was the hot core, with hos cup and core, not counting the bonded ones. But I've seen the core separate from the jacket, but managed to expand well before that happened.
So I forgot the BHN is the higher the number the harder the lead. the silver tip is at the base up there... the base is according to the Lee tool, BHN 33 and up front after the cannelures, 26. Considering the second generation would be an improvement from the first, I would assume the bullet with two cannelures would be the second generation.
The bullet with the One cannelure base BHN is 21. SO I would say the two cannelure is the 2nd Generation and is the better bullet. Figures I mainly have the ones with one cannelure !!
If any one was interested.
Is the 21 measuring lead or jacket hardness?
I did mention I tested lead not jacket. Lee rep told me to compare it with another brand of bullet to see if its close to the sliver tip.
I must have missed that.
Any pics of cross sectioned bullets so we can see if any other construction differences?
I don't know what you expect me to show you... it's all one piece lead core. Sierra mixes alloy at the base and front and you can't see it. And you won't see it in my bullet either.
Wasn't talking lead only.
I said other construction differences. You had mentioned 2 cannelures vs 1. I just wanted to see if it had 2 inner locking rings or not.
Posting a pic wouldn't hurt, just let's everyone see how it is constructed.
What Sierra bullet has a dual hardness core?? May give em a call tomorrow and see if this is something new for them.
That's what they told me years ago... dual hardness, yes. Inner locking rings? There's no inter locking ring. LOL LOL guess you don't really don't know what cannelures are for then. I don't need to show you pictures, google it.
I know exactly what a cannelure is for. It's for crimping and can be used to lock jacket and core together.
Do you think it doesn't deform and push a bit of a ring into the core??
How do you think Remington came up with the Corelokt bullet??
Yeah it has an hourglass shaped jacket but also when they knurled the crimp ring it pushed some of that jacket into the core.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 10/30/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Actually, there are 3 different Silvertips. The first versions used a nickel silver cap that was quite hard. The cap extended all the way to the base of the bullet. This was a true controlled expansion bullet. Then around 1950 IIRC the nickel silver jacket was shortened internally to approximately halfway to the base. Then shortly afterwards the hard nickel silver cap was replaced with a thin aluminum tip that was shortened to the point it just meets the copper jacket. These are known a Winchester grenade with MANY failures. With the completely different construction designs and material is a clue to why some had great results and others dismal. I remember a gun writer using a 300 Win Mag and newer Silvertips to shoot a porcupine and the bullet blew up and failed to exit the little quill pig. I think it was Boddington that used a 375 H&H with 300 grain Silvertips to shoot a grizzly. Many broadside shots and none penetrated the first layer of skin, and none entered the lung cavity.
Those are the ones I was referring to. Anothergunner might be ignorant of this bullet's failure rate.
I should have been specific as to this iteration. If he was defending it he's pure BS, but I think he knows of the third generation.
It's too bad a manufacturer develops something good, then they turn it into krap and sells reputation, not quality.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
Actually, there are 3 different Silvertips. The first versions used a nickel silver cap that was quite hard. The cap extended all the way to the base of the bullet. This was a true controlled expansion bullet. Then around 1950 IIRC the nickel silver jacket was shortened internally to approximately halfway to the base. Then shortly afterwards the hard nickel silver cap was replaced with a thin aluminum tip that was shortened to the point it just meets the copper jacket. These are known a Winchester grenade with MANY failures. With the completely different construction designs and material is a clue to why some had great results and others dismal. I remember a gun writer using a 300 Win Mag and newer Silvertips to shoot a porcupine and the bullet blew up and failed to exit the little quill pig. I think it was Boddington that used a 375 H&H with 300 grain Silvertips to shoot a grizzly. Many broadside shots and none penetrated the first layer of skin, and none entered the lung cavity.
Those are the ones I was referring to. Anothergunner might be ignorant of this bullet's failure rate.
I should have been specific as to this iteration. If he was defending it he's pure BS, but I think he knows of the third generation.
It's too bad a manufacturer develops something good, then they turn it into krap and sells reputation, not quality.
Without letting the buyer in on it.
Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.
Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)
Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
20 something BHN would be insanely high for the lead core of a jacketed bullet.
And why would that be a problem at the base ? I can see up front, but not at the base.
Did you read your own post? If you think Winchester was playing around with dual hardness lead for jacketed bullets in the 60's to whenever, you need to put down the bong.
There was 1st Generation and 2nd Generation, so I'll take a stab at I have 1st and 2nd. And the 2nd has mixed alloy cores, yes.
1969..............
In 1969........ Bob Hayden joined Sierra as Manager of Operations for The Leisure Group, who at the time was Sierra’s parent company. An engineer by trade and an avid hunter.... you think an advid hunter fooled around with non dual hardness bullet ? and all lead jacketed hunting bullet and another company didn't catch wind of it ? Seriously? Really ?? DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK, an engineer by trade. would settle for that ?
That is a lot of words to tell the internet that you are an idiot.
All the success stories, you calling them liars ? Just because there were failures, the bullet is a failure? And the bullet that didn't make it through a Moose shoulder failed at close range drove someone to a lathe to make a bullet to make it through instead of going behind the shoulder like your suppose to ?
Or a knuckle head loads a varmint .30 caliber bullet and it blows up on a yearling deer ?? Had to be chased down the mountain across the road to the river to be finished off?
Countless people use a 22-250 with a varmint bullet making unethical shots at big game ?
I believe half of what I read and half of what I hear, especially on forums like this by meatballs like you.
And another. Notice where cannelure is and where the jacket and core are semi locked together.
Funny Hornady specifically says on thier website video that the cannelure is ONLY for crimping not locking the core to the jacket. Guess you forgot about the interlock and a harder alloy, not the cannelure, which supports the core farther down.
The fact is once they knurl the jacket it still pushes some of the jacket into the core. Doesn't mean that it's to lock them together, the interlock ring is supposed to do that.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
Before that.. better yet any bullet without a cannelure. Speer Sierra etc. What locks Noslers or Remington CL ? You can’t and won’t convince me that it’s a major contributor to locking the bullet. The reason l say that is because you aren’t commenting on the other ways it locks. BTW that mushroom looks like it’s BELOW the cannelure. And to honest, and l hope you believe me, l recovered bullets with cannelures and seen the jack split past it.
Sierra controls expansion with core hardness and jacket thickness, nothing to lock the 2 together.
Same with boat tail Speers. Flatbase Speers are Hotcore bullets.
Ballistic Tips use jacket thickness.
Hornady without a crimp groove has no way of locking, just jacket thickness and core hardness to help control expansion. Hornady with a cannelure in .24 caliber and up has the Interlock ring.
Must be something to the cannelure helping some as most guys using the .224 55 grain bullet for big game always use the 55 that has a groove, not the smooth sided bullet.
Other than that none of the make a claim of anything that "locks" the 2 together.
Corelokt bullets use an hourglass shaped jacket.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
He has NO idea WTF he is talking about, just spewing crap, like the private message he sent me
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
I will call em tomorrow
Originally Posted by anothergun
I’ll give you the jacket, and the core and l never said it locks the two together did l ?
Core and jacket from what?
Never said you said it did. Said Hornady claims it does.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
He has NO idea WTF he is talking about, just spewing crap, like the private message he sent me
Tell that to Sierra and eat your words.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Sierra gets their lead in huge slugs and forces them through a die which forms the diameter of the slug, thinking it forms a lead wire if I remember correctly.
Pretty sure they would have to touch every single core in order to have a softer front end and a harder rear end.
Those Grand Slams supposedly poured molten lead in for the rear and may have had a lead wire pushed in before the lead was 100% cool then the jacket was probably drawn up around the core.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
That does not say they use more than one alloy in a single bullet.
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
See, the written word confuses you greatly. You really are showing the internet what an idiot you are, over and over again.
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
See, the written word confuses you greatly. You really are showing the internet what an idiot you are, over and over again.
Your mother never raised you to get along with others other than ones that agree with you
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
He has NO idea WTF he is talking about, just spewing crap, like the private message he sent me
LOL
I also got one from AnotherGomer. He's just an ignorant troll.
Hunt with Class and Classics
Religion: A founder of The Church of Spray and Pray
Acquit v. t. To render a judgment in a murder case in San Francisco... EQUAL, adj. As bad as something else. Ambrose Bierce “The Devil's Dictionary”
To all who are on a high horse of knowledge will someday get knocked off.. so in the mean time y’all can stick it , your lofty knowledge that is. To all who gave positive and success on the bullet much appreciated.
I used four different Silvertips on game. The first was a 1960s vintage .308/180 gr. It expanded readily and penetrated through the several smallish white tails I shot with them, broadside heart/lung shots. The second was an 80s vintage .270/140 gr. Fragmented in the heart lung region in a broadside shot on a midsize whitetail. Didn’t hit the far shoulder. Further testing it failed to fully penetrate an 8” pine. Third was a 60s vintage .270/130. I found no evidence of expansion on a neck shot 110 pound doe. She dropped. Third was a 60s vintage .250 savage/100 gr. Good expansion full penetration of the neck of a whitetail. So, they have been inconsistent in my use. I currently only have one box left, .30-06/150 loaded with my standard Garand load, in case I hunt with it.
Old70
my dad (RIP) did not like the Silvertips (30'06, 180gr) in the late 1970s. he told me that it fragmented on the deer's lungs and there was no exit wound. i have a box or two of the loads he left me. the Silvertip bullets did the same thing in early Nosler BT and early Hornady SST's. i found out, from dead deer, that 2800fps (from different calibers) is about as fast as you can go if you want the bullet to mushroom. if you go 2900fps or more, the bullet will fragment. 2800fps is an IMPACT speed. my shots are usually around 30 - 40 yards. i use SST's and BT's in 6.5x55, 270, 30'06, 7-08 and the like.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
so the saying speed kills, isn't always the answer. And considering that's what people crave to day naturally that's what they expect a bullet to perform at and that's what bullet companies improve thier bullet so be, catering to speed freaks at longer ranges.
so the saying speed kills, isn't always the answer. And considering that's what people crave to day naturally that's what they expect a bullet to perform at and that's what bullet companies improve thier bullet so be, catering to speed freaks at longer ranges.
Appreciate the input bro.
Get on back to the fourth grade and learn spelling, grammar, and syntax you stupid fool.
Come back when you and Jethro graduate the fourth go on to get your advanced degree; you know, the fifth grade.
Here’s a Sierra tech named Philip Mahin and l hope you don’t think he’s a liar like me….
Quote
we use a lead alloy for the most part. Pure lead goes into pistol bullets because of the low impact velocity necessity, then we work up in hardness. A 1.5%, then a 3%, then a 6%, and the last is a 6% plus a 4% special in the blend. For the most part, our Pro-Hunters and GameKings use the 3% with a specific jacket to give an ideal expansion quality at a specific impact velocity.
Satisfying? I doubt ladies. Email was read from him this morning.
Here’s a Sierra tech named Philip Mahin and l hope you don’t think he’s a liar like me….
Quote
we use a lead alloy for the most part. Pure lead goes into pistol bullets because of the low impact velocity necessity, then we work up in hardness. A 1.5%, then a 3%, then a 6%, and the last is a 6% plus a 4% special in the blend. For the most part, our Pro-Hunters and GameKings use the 3% with a specific jacket to give an ideal expansion quality at a specific impact velocity.
Satisfying? I doubt ladies. Email was read from him this morning.
Still nothing said about varying hardness in 1 core from front to rear.
3% for the most part in GK and PH. Not varying hardness.
Simply says they use different blends in their cores depending on what bullet within their product line.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 10/31/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Here’s a Sierra tech named Philip Mahin and l hope you don’t think he’s a liar like me….
Quote
we use a lead alloy for the most part. Pure lead goes into pistol bullets because of the low impact velocity necessity, then we work up in hardness. A 1.5%, then a 3%, then a 6%, and the last is a 6% plus a 4% special in the blend. For the most part, our Pro-Hunters and GameKings use the 3% with a specific jacket to give an ideal expansion quality at a specific impact velocity.
Satisfying? I doubt ladies. Email was read from him this morning.
Still nothing said about varying hardness in 1 core from front to rear.
3% for the most part in GK and PH. Not varying hardness.
Simply says they use different blends in their cores depending on what bullet within their product line.
Exactly, but he's a frigging idiot. I tried to explain it to him last night, but he has zero desire for actually information, just a lonely old troll.
The only thing you can do is thank God you are not him, laugh, and leave the idiot alone.
since you don't know how to let people down easy, I can do it for you. They're not pure lead, they're about 6-8 BHN which isn't pure lead, there is some alloy in the core. Loading below 2800 fps will do just fine. Which even at extended ranges like 300 to 400 yds will be fine.
Wheel weight are ~12 but what have are 15 so whoever or where ever you got that information “Mr l shoot a lot” go back and research it again. But on with the silver tips
Wheel weight are ~12 but what have are 15 so whoever or where ever you got that information “Mr l shoot a lot” go back and research it again. But on with the silver tips
Your googlefu, sucks.
Wheel weights will vary from 9 to 12 depending on what company made them, how fast a casting is cooled and with what, if they are heat treated, and if Sn is added for better flow. For all intents and purposes you should defer to assuming the lowest hardness and work from there.
A BHN of 12 is 94.5 % Pb, 3% Sn, and 2.5% Sb.....and is known as "Electrotype". As you would say, "Google it".
Again, since you didn't hear it the first time, whatever you have there is not significantly harder than pure lead.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
Wheel weight are ~12 but what have are 15 so whoever or where ever you got that information “Mr l shoot a lot” go back and research it again. But on with the silver tips
Your googlefu, sucks.
Wheel weights will vary from 9 to 12 depending on what company made them, how fast a casting is cooled and with what, if they are heat treated, and if Sn is added for better flow. For all intents and purposes you should defer to assuming the lowest hardness and work from there.
A BHN of 12 is 94.5 % Pb, 3% Sn, and 2.5% Sb.....and is known as "Electrotype". As you would say, "Google it".
Again, since you didn't hear it the first time, whatever you have there is not significantly harder than pure lead.
Water quench 15 you friggin homo. Are you this persistent to peoples faces, or are you just a major coward?
Wheel weight are ~12 but what have are 15 so whoever or where ever you got that information “Mr l shoot a lot” go back and research it again. But on with the silver tips
Your googlefu, sucks.
Wheel weights will vary from 9 to 12 depending on what company made them, how fast a casting is cooled and with what, if they are heat treated, and if Sn is added for better flow. For all intents and purposes you should defer to assuming the lowest hardness and work from there.
A BHN of 12 is 94.5 % Pb, 3% Sn, and 2.5% Sb.....and is known as "Electrotype". As you would say, "Google it".
Again, since you didn't hear it the first time, whatever you have there is not significantly harder than pure lead.
Water quench 15 you friggin homo. Are you this persistent to peoples faces, or are you just a major coward?
Are you this persistent to peoples faces, or are you just a major coward?
The invite is never not open Skippy.
As my son would say, bring your pink slip and show me.
We'll even grill ya a steak and hand ya a beer afterwards per the etiquette of Appalachian hospitality, to sooth your fragile hurt feelings and calm your triggered irrational emotions.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
I think you need to pack it up and take a walk LMAO l wouldn’t waste my gas let alone my time with fathead like you. You probably couldn’t even see straight let alone walk straight.
Truth…If that’s true then why are you the one who always gets upset honey when people don’t agree with you ?! 🤣!
Let's recap:
You start a thread about a long defunct bullet that at best was a roll of the dice to begin with, and in this modern era, nobody even cares about. You make wild claims and pose like you know something. It's pointed out by several that you don't. You fire off an email question to a bullet maker that never made your long defunct bullet, floundering around for something, anything, to really show us up this time. You misinterpret the response that you get back as somehow supporting your wild claims, because deciphering the context of the written english language was never one of your grand superpowers. That misinterpretation is also pointed out to you by several. You're given a few real world facts, which you flippantly ignore because everyone on this site is just a stupid head. You then proceed to claim victimhood because everyone here is a big meanie too. 6 pages going on 7 later it still baffles you how you're getting treated. Ignorance can be cured by education, there is no cure for stupidity beyond Darwin's Theory of evolution.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
No need to call them, is there ?
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Nosler ain't no better, they loose the front end, and people rave about the rear end driving through. The job is done by the time that happens, weather they're PT's, BT's. Speer HC either, or Sierra, any cup and core will do this. BUT they kill, so WHO CARES if the fall apart, by the time they do ladies, the job is done. You wanna belly ache about someting legit, belly ache about your ego's.... it gets you nowhere.
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
No need to call them, is there ?
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
Years ago and I'm talking years, like 25 years..... An old timer from Sierra, told me about the shank being harder. Some things you don't forget. This Philip guy just started recently. I wish I knew the guy I talked to back then. Oh well, it is what it is. But at least you know that Sierra bullets are NOT pure lead.
Nosler ain't no better, they loose the front end, and people rave about the rear end driving through. The job is done by the time that happens, weather they're PT's, BT's. Speer HC either, or Sierra, any cup and core will do this. BUT they kill, so WHO CARES if the fall apart, by the time they do ladies, the job is done. You wanna belly ache about someting legit, belly ache about your ego's.... it gets you nowhere.
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
No need to call them, is there ?
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
Years ago and I'm talking years, like 25 years..... An old timer from Sierra, told me about the shank being harder. Some things you don't forget. This Philip guy just started recently. I wish I knew the guy I talked to back then. Oh well, it is what it is. But at least you know that Sierra bullets are NOT pure lead.
Never said they were.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Is that where you are now ? Don’t get lost. I was warned to stay away from forums, this hobbie really is trial and error. Think l might do that.
Did you not give the impression you were leaving this forum many years ago?
Originally Posted by anothergun
Gee I guess If I'm all alone in my squabble, I must be wrong.
Happy hunting. Oh don't forget to debate about who has the right cartridge round yer fire.
Didn't really leave, just spent time on other sites, but they have moderators and I didn't last long. This hobbie like I said is trial and error, and after having debates about ANYTHING, I would walk away from my computor and figure out what others thought they knew and really couldn't see what I was doing to tell me how to figure it out. Don't get me wrong, there are a few things I picked up, but not much, to improve the game. The ones who give thier opinion and leave it at that make it enjoyable, but guys who contantly run thier mouth is the only thing they really know how to do. I pm advice, they take or not, and I LEAVE IT THERE, not get in hot pursuit with a flamming ego, like a group of homos here.
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
[/quote]
Me....
Is it true that the base of your bullets are typically harder than the front end ? Pro hunters and GK's ?
Quote
Philip Mahin 10:51 AM (1 hour ago) to me
I guess you can look at it that way, but the jacket thickness is the controlling factor. A tapered jacket will give a faster expansion at the nose and resist expansion at the base. We try to achieve the same goal through both of our Pro-Hunter and GameKing lineup, a projectile that mushrooms at the nose but still penetrates easily. Now I guess I break his balls POLITELY, considering that what he is to me, ladies, POLITE. I get along JUST FINE with POLITE people, unlike youse guys !
Philip Mahin
Ballistic Technician
Same guy saying two different things led me to talk to a MANAGER 25 years ago.
The jacket design is the main controlling factor like the techs in the Hornady video stated.
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
Truth…If that’s true then why are you the one who always gets upset honey when people don’t agree with you ?! 🤣!
Let's recap:
You start a thread about a long defunct bullet that at best was a roll of the dice to begin with, and in this modern era, nobody even cares about. You make wild claims and pose like you know something. It's pointed out by several that you don't. You fire off an email question to a bullet maker that never made your long defunct bullet, floundering around for something, anything, to really show us up this time. You misinterpret the response that you get back as somehow supporting your wild claims, because deciphering the context of the written english language was never one of your grand superpowers. That misinterpretation is also pointed out to you by several. You're given a few real world facts, which you flippantly ignore because everyone on this site is just a stupid head. You then proceed to claim victimhood because everyone here is a big meanie too. 6 pages going on 7 later it still baffles you how you're getting treated. Ignorance can be cured by education, there is no cure for stupidity beyond Darwin's Theory of evolution.
There's a few who know something you don't jackass, slow the bullet down, big surprise.. huh ? If a 2700 FPS FMJ can kill a man at extended ranges why couldn't a obsolete one do it know at modest ranges ? And IF you read the success stories of certain cartridges having no problems with the bullet then it SHOULD make you think but it appears that Darwin is in your way.
If that's true then you're in the group from the explosion. Carry on in the mess of opinions. It's more enjoyable to listen to Hornady's pod casts and not to Your BS !
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
So you don't drive them hard, and there won't be any issues of failure. I listened to that podcast about Steve Hornady asking Dave Emery to slow down a bullet and Dave said we can't do that. If they can design a bullet to successfully expand at high velocity why can't they design one at slower velocity? They could.
See the difference between getting from point A to point B is speed for some.... and long range the bullet wouldn't work, But you still get their driving the speed limit verses some speed demon, and that's what alot of guys are , even if it isn't long range and Hornady had to work very hard to deliver a bullet that can do it, and my hats off to them. Most people back then didn't have the need to have that type of performance, did they ? No they didn't, and typically today they don't except you fraternity of long range hunters.
Nosler ain't no better, they loose the front end, and people rave about the rear end driving through. The job is done by the time that happens, weather they're PT's, BT's. Speer HC either, or Sierra, any cup and core will do this. BUT they kill, so WHO CARES if the fall apart, by the time they do ladies, the job is done. You wanna belly ache about someting legit, belly ache about your ego's.... it gets you nowhere.
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
No need to call them, is there ?
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
Years ago and I'm talking years, like 25 years..... An old timer from Sierra, told me about the shank being harder. Some things you don't forget. This Philip guy just started recently. I wish I knew the guy I talked to back then. Oh well, it is what it is. But at least you know that Sierra bullets are NOT pure lead.
Never said they were.
So why bash a cup and core, THAT WORKS even though they "fall" apart. Slow them down, sonny. Or use a heavier bullet on heavier game. But I guess you get what Jessica Brooks said about thier TTSX, dropping down a weight or two and still do the job ? ? LOL Is that it? And if lighter ones fall apart on lighter game it's the manufactures fault? Guess you could just slow them down, couldn't ya? Longer range they slow down for you. See? isn't that simple ?
I remember my father in law telling me about Sierras "hunting" loads which were mostly hot loads. Why so hot is needed, his answer was that's what they list and that's what you should use. Bunch of BS. Someone I should have respected? for what? what for? Even Sierra? Speed isn't always the answer, is it?
Oh But you have to have a bullet that completely passes through the animal, one of my wifes uncle told me early on, which I knew he was full if crap, knowing that an up setted bullet does it long before it exits the animal.
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
So you don't drive them hard, and there won't be any issues of failure. I listened to that podcast about Steve Hornady asking Dave Emery to slow down a bullet and Dave said we can't do that. If they can design a bullet to successfully expand at high velocity why can't they design one at slower velocity? They could.
See the difference between getting from point A to point B is speed for some.... and long range the bullet wouldn't work, But you still get their driving the speed limit verses some speed demon, and that's what alot of guys are , even if it isn't long range and Hornady had to work very hard to deliver a bullet that can do it, and my hats off to them. Most people back then didn't have the need to have that type of performance, did they ? No they didn't, and typically today they don't except you fraternity of long range hunters.
How far is long range? I mean, how far is your furthest animal you’ve take and where do you hunt? Just wondering.
Nosler ain't no better, they loose the front end, and people rave about the rear end driving through. The job is done by the time that happens, weather they're PT's, BT's. Speer HC either, or Sierra, any cup and core will do this. BUT they kill, so WHO CARES if the fall apart, by the time they do ladies, the job is done. You wanna belly ache about someting legit, belly ache about your ego's.... it gets you nowhere.
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
[quote=anothergun]and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
No need to call them, is there ?
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
Years ago and I'm talking years, like 25 years..... An old timer from Sierra, told me about the shank being harder. Some things you don't forget. This Philip guy just started recently. I wish I knew the guy I talked to back then. Oh well, it is what it is. But at least you know that Sierra bullets are NOT pure lead.
Never said they were.
So why bash a cup and core, THAT WORKS even though they "fall" apart. Slow them down, sonny. Or use a heavier bullet on heavier game. But I guess you get what Jessica Brooks said about thier TTSX, dropping down a weight or two and still do the job ? ? LOL Is that it? And if lighter ones fall apart on lighter game it's the manufactures fault? Guess you could just slow them down, couldn't ya? Longer range they slow down for you. See? isn't that simple ?
I remember my father in law telling me about Sierras "hunting" loads which were mostly hot loads. Why so hot is needed, his answer was that's what they list and that's what you should use. Bunch of BS. Someone I should have respected? for what? what for? Even Sierra? Speed isn't always the answer, is it?
Oh But you have to have a bullet that completely passes through the animal, one of my wifes uncle told me early on, which I knew he was full if crap, knowing that an up setted bullet does it long before it exits the animal.[/quote]
Zerk, stop confusing my comments/posts on this thread with another's comments/posts like you did on your 760 hot brass thread.
Where did I bash a cup and core for coming apart? I didn't, just like I never said a jacketed rifle bullet had a core of pure lead.
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 11/01/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
The little bit of knowledge you have has swelled your head three times the size it was at birth, and it started to swell when people told you how cute you were.
Nosler ain't no better, they loose the front end, and people rave about the rear end driving through. The job is done by the time that happens, weather they're PT's, BT's. Speer HC either, or Sierra, any cup and core will do this. BUT they kill, so WHO CARES if the fall apart, by the time they do ladies, the job is done. You wanna belly ache about someting legit, belly ache about your ego's.... it gets you nowhere.
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
[quote=mathman][quote=anothergun]and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
No need to call them, is there ?
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
Years ago and I'm talking years, like 25 years..... An old timer from Sierra, told me about the shank being harder. Some things you don't forget. This Philip guy just started recently. I wish I knew the guy I talked to back then. Oh well, it is what it is. But at least you know that Sierra bullets are NOT pure lead.
Never said they were.
So why bash a cup and core, THAT WORKS even though they "fall" apart. Slow them down, sonny. Or use a heavier bullet on heavier game. But I guess you get what Jessica Brooks said about thier TTSX, dropping down a weight or two and still do the job ? ? LOL Is that it? And if lighter ones fall apart on lighter game it's the manufactures fault? Guess you could just slow them down, couldn't ya? Longer range they slow down for you. See? isn't that simple ?
I remember my father in law telling me about Sierras "hunting" loads which were mostly hot loads. Why so hot is needed, his answer was that's what they list and that's what you should use. Bunch of BS. Someone I should have respected? for what? what for? Even Sierra? Speed isn't always the answer, is it?
Oh But you have to have a bullet that completely passes through the animal, one of my wifes uncle told me early on, which I knew he was full if crap, knowing that an up setted bullet does it long before it exits the animal.[/quote]
Zerk, stop confusing my comments/posts on this thread with another's comments/posts like you did on your 760 hot brass thread.
Where did I bash a cup and core for coming apart? I didn't, just like I never said a jacketed rifle bullet had a core of pure lead.[/quote]
What’s left of 2 famous brand interlocks, still have a box and a half of 30 year old junk.
LMAO. 🤣
Years ago and I'm talking years, like 25 years..... An old timer from Sierra, told me about the shank being harder. Some things you don't forget. This Philip guy just started recently. I wish I knew the guy I talked to back then. Oh well, it is what it is. But at least you know that Sierra bullets are NOT pure lead.
So why bash a cup and core, THAT WORKS even though they "fall" apart. Slow them down, sonny. Or use a heavier bullet on heavier game. But I guess you get what Jessica Brooks said about thier TTSX, dropping down a weight or two and still do the job ? ? LOL Is that it? And if lighter ones fall apart on lighter game it's the manufactures fault? Guess you could just slow them down, couldn't ya? Longer range they slow down for you. See? isn't that simple ?
I remember my father in law telling me about Sierras "hunting" loads which were mostly hot loads. Why so hot is needed, his answer was that's what they list and that's what you should use. Bunch of BS. Someone I should have respected? for what? what for? Even Sierra? Speed isn't always the answer, is it?
Oh But you have to have a bullet that completely passes through the animal, one of my wifes uncle told me early on, which I knew he was full if crap, knowing that an up setted bullet does it long before it exits the animal.[/quote]
Nosler ain't no better, they loose the front end, and people rave about the rear end driving through. The job is done by the time that happens, weather they're PT's, BT's. Speer HC either, or Sierra, any cup and core will do this. BUT they kill, so WHO CARES if the fall apart, by the time they do ladies, the job is done. You wanna belly ache about someting legit, belly ache about your ego's.... it gets you nowhere.
Originally Posted by 10gaugemag
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
[quote=anothergun][quote=mathman][quote=anothergun]and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by anothergun
and a harder core base AND … INTERLOCK BAND has nothing to do with it. So how did does thier line WITHOUT a cannelure LOCK ? but Good to know you’re convinced it helps.
What precisely do you mean by harder core base?
Email Sierra and ask them
First of all, I was referring to your comment in a post about the Interlock, a Hornady product.
Second, I don't believe Sierra has ever used differential hardness in their cores. Speer used to in the Grand Slam.
Quote
We make the core of the bullet from four lead alloys: 6% antimony-4% tin, 6% antimony, 3% antimony, 1 1/2% antimony, and pure lead. For each bullet, we select the proper lead alloy for the best combination of accuracy and expansion in the finished projectile
No need to call them, is there ?
Like I said, no multiple core hardness within 1 core, front to back.
Years ago and I'm talking years, like 25 years..... An old timer from Sierra, told me about the shank being harder. Some things you don't forget. This Philip guy just started recently. I wish I knew the guy I talked to back then. Oh well, it is what it is. But at least you know that Sierra bullets are NOT pure lead.
Never said they were.
So why bash a cup and core, THAT WORKS even though they "fall" apart. Slow them down, sonny. Or use a heavier bullet on heavier game. But I guess you get what Jessica Brooks said about thier TTSX, dropping down a weight or two and still do the job ? ? LOL Is that it? And if lighter ones fall apart on lighter game it's the manufactures fault? Guess you could just slow them down, couldn't ya? Longer range they slow down for you. See? isn't that simple ?
I remember my father in law telling me about Sierras "hunting" loads which were mostly hot loads. Why so hot is needed, his answer was that's what they list and that's what you should use. Bunch of BS. Someone I should have respected? for what? what for? Even Sierra? Speed isn't always the answer, is it?
Oh But you have to have a bullet that completely passes through the animal, one of my wifes uncle told me early on, which I knew he was full if crap, knowing that an up setted bullet does it long before it exits the animal.[/quote]
Zerk, stop confusing my comments/posts on this thread with another's comments/posts like you did on your 760 hot brass thread.
Where did I bash a cup and core for coming apart? I didn't, just like I never said a jacketed rifle bullet had a core of pure lead.[/quote]
sorry about that, son. Was Swifty not you.[/quote]
Notice how you answered to Zerk and didn't deny it???🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I ain't your son and damn glad of it.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
So you don't drive them hard, and there won't be any issues of failure. I listened to that podcast about Steve Hornady asking Dave Emery to slow down a bullet and Dave said we can't do that. If they can design a bullet to successfully expand at high velocity why can't they design one at slower velocity? They could.
See the difference between getting from point A to point B is speed for some.... and long range the bullet wouldn't work, But you still get their driving the speed limit verses some speed demon, and that's what alot of guys are , even if it isn't long range and Hornady had to work very hard to deliver a bullet that can do it, and my hats off to them. Most people back then didn't have the need to have that type of performance, did they ? No they didn't, and typically today they don't except you fraternity of long range hunters.
How far is long range? I mean, how far is your furthest animal you’ve take and where do you hunt? Just wondering.
Considering you live in Northeast USA you can answer you're own question. And considering the truth of what the ST can do verses what most say it can't do, what's the difference how far I shoot ?
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
The only consistency I saw from Corelokt bullets was they were inconsistent.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
The only consistency I saw from Corelokt bullets was they were inconsistent.
I guess by now you haven't learned that cup and core bullets can't be pushed too hard. You and others for that matter. Ok so the ST is too soft, big deal. Don't use them, just like the CL. Class dismissed.
Is that where you are now ? Don’t get lost. I was warned to stay away from forums, this hobbie really is trial and error. Think l might do that.
Did you not give the impression you were leaving this forum many years ago?
Originally Posted by anothergun
Gee I guess If I'm all alone in my squabble, I must be wrong.
Happy hunting. Oh don't forget to debate about who has the right cartridge round yer fire.
Didn't really leave, just spent time on other sites, but they have moderators and I didn't last long. This hobbie like I said is trial and error, and after having debates about ANYTHING, I would walk away from my computor and figure out what others thought they knew and really couldn't see what I was doing to tell me how to figure it out. Don't get me wrong, there are a few things I picked up, but not much, to improve the game. The ones who give thier opinion and leave it at that make it enjoyable, but guys who contantly run thier mouth is the only thing they really know how to do. I pm advice, they take or not, and I LEAVE IT THERE, not get in hot pursuit with a flamming ego, like a group of homos here.
Illiterate dumbphuk- your drivel ain't worth reading so I didn't open your PM before deleting.
Is that where you are now ? Don’t get lost. I was warned to stay away from forums, this hobbie really is trial and error. Think l might do that.
Did you not give the impression you were leaving this forum many years ago?
Originally Posted by anothergun
Gee I guess If I'm all alone in my squabble, I must be wrong.
Happy hunting. Oh don't forget to debate about who has the right cartridge round yer fire.
Didn't really leave, just spent time on other sites, but they have moderators and I didn't last long. This hobbie like I said is trial and error, and after having debates about ANYTHING, I would walk away from my computor and figure out what others thought they knew and really couldn't see what I was doing to tell me how to figure it out. Don't get me wrong, there are a few things I picked up, but not much, to improve the game. The ones who give thier opinion and leave it at that make it enjoyable, but guys who contantly run thier mouth is the only thing they really know how to do. I pm advice, they take or not, and I LEAVE IT THERE, not get in hot pursuit with a flamming ego, like a group of homos here.
Illiterate dumbphuk- your drivel ain't worth reading so I didn't open your PM before deleting.
What makes you think you are literate. Oh I get it, you read a little past the first chapter of a load manual and hang out on this forum a few others, read the HS they write, and take it for Gospel. Got cha !!!
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
The only consistency I saw from Corelokt bullets was they were inconsistent.
I guess by now you haven't learned that cup and core bullets can't be pushed too hard. You and others for that matter. Ok so the ST is too soft, big deal. Don't use them, just like the CL. Class dismissed.
ST?
So failing to expand is pushing too hard??
I said inconsistent.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
WTH is so different ? LOL LOL the guy you answered to in his post mentioned the CL failing.... and you responded with "inconsistent" inconsistent, is inconsistent a fancy word you use for fail ?
It's really really really HARD to believe that a "Soft" bullet as the completely critisized ST wouldn't expand at all. You people are really too friggin much you really are.
Quote
So failing to expand is pushing too hard??
where the hell did that come from ??
No blowing up is...... I never said that they didn't expand. And there's no way I would believe a bullet would be all over the place with performance, it blows up, it didn't expanded, it blew up, it didn't penetrate.... before jacketed bullets people relied on all lead musket balls, and how did they fair ?? Digging too deep yeah Feral, join the club.
It would appear that he’s saying the bullet is “harder” towards the base because the jacket is thicker in the interest of retarding expansion. If the lead core is all one alloy it isn’t a dual core or dual hardness like an old Speer GS.
And my use of the 30/180 Silvertip showed them to be a POS. Some would work perfectly, some show very little sign of expansion, and one completely expanded down to its base and failed to break the shoulder after 2” of penetration. If they’re predictable I can deal with it by staying on or off bone depending on if they’re hard or soft. If they do something different every time they land they’re near worthless to me. These would have been the last generation produced.
I had almost as poor of luck with 6.5/140 CoreLokts. Terrible lack of penetration, no exits on rib shot 100lb deer and completely coming apart any time a bone was hit. Wouldn’t give a dollar for a box of them either but at least they were consistent.
The only consistency I saw from Corelokt bullets was they were inconsistent.
I guess by now you haven't learned that cup and core bullets can't be pushed too hard. You and others for that matter. Ok so the ST is too soft, big deal. Don't use them, just like the CL. Class dismissed.
I said inconsistent.
You said can't be pushed to hard or they come apart.
I said failed to expand which is a failure.
I have seen CL bullets fail to expand, expand and over expand.
All 3 from factory loads that I am sure weren't pushed too hard by Remington.
243, 6mm, 270 and 30-06.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Is that where you are now ? Don’t get lost. I was warned to stay away from forums, this hobbie really is trial and error. Think l might do that.
Did you not give the impression you were leaving this forum many years ago?
Originally Posted by anothergun
Gee I guess If I'm all alone in my squabble, I must be wrong.
Happy hunting. Oh don't forget to debate about who has the right cartridge round yer fire.
Didn't really leave, just spent time on other sites, but they have moderators and I didn't last long. This hobbie like I said is trial and error, and after having debates about ANYTHING, I would walk away from my computor and figure out what others thought they knew and really couldn't see what I was doing to tell me how to figure it out. Don't get me wrong, there are a few things I picked up, but not much, to improve the game. The ones who give thier opinion and leave it at that make it enjoyable, but guys who contantly run thier mouth is the only thing they really know how to do. I pm advice, they take or not, and I LEAVE IT THERE, not get in hot pursuit with a flamming ego, like a group of homos here.
Illiterate dumbphuk- your drivel ain't worth reading so I didn't open your PM before deleting.
You got one too?? I opened it. A short sweet life altering message it was.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
that's all your attention span can handle short and sweet. You guys just love to drag things on and on and on.... oh Corelokts aren't inconsistent. My car doesn't purr like a kitten after 20 K miles, oh my lawnmower doesn't drive itself anymore, oh my wife isn't as sweet anymore...... oh oh oh oh ! LMAO OHHH some people don't agree with me when they should ! Ohhhhh !
Illiterate dumbphuk- your drivel ain't worth reading so I didn't open your PM before deleting.
You got one too?? I opened it. A short sweet life altering message it was.
I was getting stupid sh itty PMs after EVERY response to him on threads a couple weeks ago. Damn near copied/pasted them in the threads. Gave the stalking little bastard short and sweet too. Told him to "f uck off", and "no really, F UCK off". He quit PMing after that.
I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children may live in peace. ~~ Thomas Paine
And after all these bullets that didn’t do what you wanted them to do, did you have a dead animal ?
Any CL I saw expanded fine. Too many opinions here there and everywhere. Guess what matters is an animal hanging for butcherin, and that it. Sick of goin round and round with you. People like you cause bullet companies to pull thier hair out because you don’t have a bullet to perform to perfection. Really is stupid.
Illiterate dumbphuk- your drivel ain't worth reading so I didn't open your PM before deleting.
You got one too?? I opened it. A short sweet life altering message it was.
I was getting stupid sh itty PMs after EVERY response to him on threads a couple weeks ago. Damn near copied/pasted them in the threads. Gave the stalking little bastard short and sweet too. Told him to "f uck off", and "no really, F UCK off". He quit PMing after that.
Ok so this ultimate poster, we should bow down and worship his dogma BS? Oh btw the way l didn’t stop pm’ing this quack because he scared me away l stopped because you can’t pm when someone has you on your ignore list, big surprise? Should we trust what spews from his mouth if he lies about this ?
either way you’re a newb with a flaming ego, who Thinks, his way is the only way. Rather watch Hornady casts with MATURE men without egos. And they mentioned boys like you with egos. You can take Your step ladder tests, and nodes, and shove them, and take a long walk off a short pier.
Don't plan on using them. I have plenty of other brands, but at least the right approach can be taken to use them successfully. A few people who really know what they're talking about made that clear, and that's all I need to hear. Kinda like being able to shoot the Low number 03 Springfield's, it's really a simple reason why you can. But unfortunately that debate will never end.
I have more posts than you meaning I know more than you. Wrong. But.... what I do know is.. Nobody really cares what you do know. It doesn't help me one bit, because you don't know how to relay it, and most of all, in a rational, respectful, understanding manner, because you ain't nothing but a kid with many vices, and certainly not a man with many talents. The ONLY talent you have is creating a eclipse of the sun by standing in front of it with your head. What works for you and your fraternity is fine, have at it, but it may not work for other people and you just leave it at that.
Out of 6,748 posters 6,678 ignored the thread and didn't respond. Here are some reasons why they ignore guys like you.
overwhelming have different priorities cause too much drama have trouble listening. just rude, most of the time come across as fake overshare too soon dominate conversations far too pushy don’t respect people’s boundaries You always want to be right
yeah I copied and pasted them.
Only a few sided with the fact the bullet CAN be used successfully. Ok, so I misread the hardness scale on the Lee tool. Big deal. And the core is soft, so what. Sierra cores aren't that much harder, and I wouldn't doubt other cup and core bullets are either. Does that mean that cup and core bullets shouldn't be used because some people think they're too soft and or don't stay together after the animal is dead ? They do the job, and way back when so did these bullets. I really don't believe that their tooling was that out of control to make such a inconsistent bullet, I really don't. I believe that shooters, hand loaders and hunters can be. I have a Book written by Jack O'Conner having his first chapter titled "Picking your Expert".
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