I haven't messed with muzzleloaders since I was a teenager back in the late 1970s. Back then I built a couple CVA kits. One was a 50 caliber Mountain Rifle, the other was a 45 caliber Kentucky Pistol.
Anyhoo, my main interest is in shooting PRB. I ordered some .530 RB's and patches in .010, and .015 to get started. Figure I'll try 60gr of Pyrodex P, and see how that goes.
Interested in any feedback from others with experience with the Lyman Trade Rifle.
Hey MM, no experience with that rifle, but years shooting a 54 cal PRB. 60 grains of P will be like shooting a 22LR. For patch thickness, try to find fired patches and see what they look like. If they have tears, it's too tight. Enjoy!
It isn't what happens to you that defines you, it's what you DO about what happens to you that defines you!
Back in the day when I built the CVA 50 cal, I believe we shot it with 90gr of Pyrodex RS. The flask had a 30gr spout, and I seem to recall we put three spouts down the barrel. That was quite accurate, and pleasant to shoot.
60gr of Pyrodex P under a 220gr round ball does sound pretty mild. I'm thinking maybe 1400-1500 fps or so?
Here's a vid I was checking out. Chrono testing 54 PRB with FFFg and FFg.
I couldn't find any #11 caps in Helena, or on my usual online outlets.
Looked around online and finally found some RWS #11 caps in stock at Powder Valley. $36/250, not inexpensive, but at least I'll be able to shoot the rifle. Since I was in for the Hazmat fee, I picked up 500 caps, and an extra pound of Pyrodex P.
I used to fret some over the non-authentic appearance of the modern kinda-sorta reproduction MLs like TC Hawkens. Then I saw an original New England half-stock for sale at one of the ML vendor sites. Aside from having some more drop to the buttstock, it was very close in appearance to a TC, down to that fancy brass trigger guard.
Enjoy your new rifle. If your supply issues with caps continues, consider a Mag-Spark 209 primer unit. Works like a champ, and gives you another option. I have #11 and musket nipples for my .54 Greyhawk, plus the Mag-Spark. I can shoot any powder out there in a pinch.
I had a Great Plains rifle 30-odd years back, but all I ever killed with it was a groundhog. I shot Pyrodex in it, but today prefer real black and BH 209, or 777 in a pinch.
For a .54, I shoot either 80 or 90 grains of FFFg and a patched round ball. The Deerstalker likes the lighter charge. The 32" barrel of the Green Mountain barrel easily burns 90 grains. Both flints though.
Throw that damn Pyrodex away. My Lyman .54 cal shot a lot better when I switched to real black powder. Not to mention being a whole lot less corrosive and easier to clean.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
I ordered the rifle from Dixie Gun Works. In their description, it says the rifle is made in Italy by Investarms. I believe the same people that actually made the GPR's???
I was drawn to the simplicity of the rifle relative to some other choices. Single trigger, no patchbox, one barrel wedge, simple fixed sights. My mind sorta took the 'less is more' approach to it. I think this rifle has everything it needs, and nothing it doesn't.
I'll likely get around to trying Black Powder. In the past, and again now, it seems that Pyrodex was/is actually available. So I'll run with that for now.
The CVA Mountain Rifle kit I built back around 1977 did have some of the extras.
- The ornate patchbox in the stock, that was never used.
- It had two barrel wedges, one was usually loose, and fell out upon firing. Granted I wasn't a master BP gun builder when I was 16...lol.
- It also had the double set trigger, which was kind of cool, but this time I opted for the simplicity/reliability of a single trigger.
- A rear sight with some adjustability. That's certainly a convenient thing, but I plan on finding one mid-power load and calibrating the fixed sights to that load. If I fiddle with alternate loads, I'll just have to use some holdoff if needed.
Here's an old pic of the CVA 50 cal mountain rifle. I gifted it to my dad after I got it all finished and sighted in with 90gr Pyrodex RS, and a .490 PRB. It was a good shooter.
This is a pic of Dad with the rifle, around 1980 or so, near Hagerman, NM.
Nice MM! One of the 54's I'm still using is a CVA St. Louis Hawken kit gun I put together back in the late 70's. I've pretty much settled on Goex BP exclusively and have also moved my in-lines to new homes.
Nice rifle, enjoy!
It isn't what happens to you that defines you, it's what you DO about what happens to you that defines you!
Congrats on the rifle. As others have mentioned, it might be worth buying the larger musket cap nipple...with the shortages these days having nipples in both sizes usually means you can find caps *somewhere*.
I'll be interested to hear how it shoots. I've got TC Hawkens/Renegades in .50 and .54 but I like the look of those Trade Rifles.
One "issue" I've had over the years, replacing a #11 nipple with a musket cap nipple, is a musket cap nipple is taller and I had to "adjust" (as in heat it up and bend it) the hammer a little for it to hit flat on the musket cap. A taller nipple can effect how the hammer hits the cap. Might be an issue, might not be.
It isn't what happens to you that defines you, it's what you DO about what happens to you that defines you!
One "issue" I've had over the years, replacing a #11 nipple with a musket cap nipple, is a musket cap nipple is taller and I had to "adjust" (as in heat it up and bend it) the hammer a little for it to hit flat on the musket cap. A taller nipple can effect how the hammer hits the cap. Might be an issue, might not be.
Yeah, nothing is ever that easy, it seems. I've also read that the larger diameter of the musket cap requires very good alignment of the hammer to the nipple.
No experience with the Trade Rifle, but I've had a GPR in 54 for years. PRB and real blackpowder is all I've shot in mine. I bought a Green Mountain barrel for mine thinking it might be an upgrade, but the original barrel shoots as good or better. I really enjoy mine - lots of fun to shoot...
If CCI Musket caps make damn sure you don't get the reenactment caps.
Good to know. What's the difference between them?
Fire.
The 4 wing CCI are not as hot as old 6 wing caps. I am not so sure the newer CCI are any hotter than a good #11. I used musket caps for a while then started using CCI #11 magnum caps and have some RWS #11. No issue w either but I am lighting real black.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
No experience with the Trade Rifle, but I've had a GPR in 54 for years. PRB and real blackpowder is all I've shot in mine. I bought a Green Mountain barrel for mine thinking it might be an upgrade, but the original barrel shoots as good or better. I really enjoy mine - lots of fun to shoot...
I slept too long on the GPR, it seems they are no longer in production. I should have bought one of the LH models years ago.
If CCI Musket caps make damn sure you don't get the reenactment caps.
Good to know. What's the difference between them?
Fire.
The 4 wing CCI are not as hot as old 6 wing caps. I am not so sure the newer CCI are any hotter than a good #11. I used musket caps for a while then started using CCI #11 magnum caps and have some RWS #11. No issue w either but I am lighting real black.
I did see some four-wing musket caps in stock at the local Sportsmans Warehouse. The tin did say 'for reenactment use'. I wondered what that really meant.
No experience with the Trade Rifle, but I've had a GPR in 54 for years. PRB and real blackpowder is all I've shot in mine. I bought a Green Mountain barrel for mine thinking it might be an upgrade, but the original barrel shoots as good or better. I really enjoy mine - lots of fun to shoot...
I slept too long on the GPR, it seems they are no longer in production. I should have bought one of the LH models years ago.
LH can still be found here and there I was looking JFG a while back Track of the Wolf ( maybe?) had a LH still listed
No experience with the Trade Rifle, but I've had a GPR in 54 for years. PRB and real blackpowder is all I've shot in mine. I bought a Green Mountain barrel for mine thinking it might be an upgrade, but the original barrel shoots as good or better. I really enjoy mine - lots of fun to shoot...
I slept too long on the GPR, it seems they are no longer in production. I should have bought one of the LH models years ago.
LH can still be found here and there I was looking JFG a while back Track of the Wolf ( maybe?) had a LH still listed
I was looking around on Track of The Wolf earlier today. I see they have a LH Lyman Deerstalker, 54 cal, percussion for sale. Used, $499. Didn't see any GPR's.
If CCI Musket caps make damn sure you don't get the reenactment caps.
Good to know. What's the difference between them?
Fire.
The 4 wing CCI are not as hot as old 6 wing caps. I am not so sure the newer CCI are any hotter than a good #11. I used musket caps for a while then started using CCI #11 magnum caps and have some RWS #11. No issue w either but I am lighting real black.
I did see some four-wing musket caps in stock at the local Sportsmans Warehouse. The tin did say 'for reenactment use'. I wondered what that really meant.
Supposedly they had someone sue them when a piece of a regular 6 wing cap got in his eye or embedded in his face.
At least that's the information for the difference on the net.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
The 54 cal. CVA St. Louis Hawken kit gun I built. 90gr FFg under a 230gr patched RB. Pretty good sized pig, I'm 6'-4" 230ish... Pig didn't stand a chance...
It isn't what happens to you that defines you, it's what you DO about what happens to you that defines you!
One "issue" I've had over the years, replacing a #11 nipple with a musket cap nipple, is a musket cap nipple is taller and I had to "adjust" (as in heat it up and bend it) the hammer a little for it to hit flat on the musket cap. A taller nipple can effect how the hammer hits the cap. Might be an issue, might not be.
Yeah, nothing is ever that easy, it seems. I've also read that the larger diameter of the musket cap requires very good alignment of the hammer to the nipple.
This is true, but at least on both my TC's it was easy to fix the alignment by loosening the lock screw and shimming the lock to align it better, rather than bending the hammer.
The new CCI musket caps are all I've used...they do not seem to be hotter than a #11 from what I can tell. Just gives another option to keep the gun running.
The new CCI musket caps are all I've used...they do not seem to be hotter than a #11 from what I can tell. Just gives another option to keep the gun running.[/quote]
4 wing or 6??
Last edited by 10gaugemag; 11/06/23.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
The 54 cal. CVA St. Louis Hawken kit gun I built. 90gr FFg under a 230gr patched RB. Pretty good sized pig, I'm 6'-4" 230ish... Pig didn't stand a chance...
I like the looks, size, weight and all that about it. Overall I'm pleased with it and excited to get it shooting.
There were a few glaring things that got my attention though.
First, the hammer was rubbing the stock. No biggie, I removed enough wood there to relieve the hammer of any contact on the wood.
Second, the main lock bolt was also rubbing the hammer, so removed it and filed it down enough to be flush with the lock plate, and touched it up with a bluing pen.
Third, the cocking of the hammer and the trigger pull are/were very rough, and hitchy. I put some fine grit (600) firelapping compound on all the contact surfaces, and cocked and released (letting the hammer down under control) a few hundred times. It's starting to smooth out, but still needs more repetitions.
To be honest, I was kind of disappointed in that trigger. The CVA kits I had built in the 70's were far and away better in that department, although the leaf spring on the 45 cal Kentucky pistol, did break in under 50 rounds fired. This Trade Rifle does have a coil mainspring, so that should be fairly durable.
Anyhoo, I'm still waiting for delivery of cap, ball, patches, and powder, but we should be making smoke this weekend or so. In the meantime I cleaned the bore, it was filthy with preservative, as normal.
I have a 54 deerstalker in flint and a trade rifle barrel that i swap out on the same stock; I put rmc fiber optic sights on them and changed to an rmc vent. i have not done a lot of load work on them yet but the Deerstalker barrel one holes at 50 yards benched with 70 grains 3f goex with .530 .18/.20 patch. The trade barrel gets 80 grains but can go to 100 grains with excellent accuracy; these barrels need to fire about 2 boxes of ball before they start to show their outstanding accuracy. Best buy one the market at one time but now discontinued.
Well I put the first rounds through the rifle this afternoon. Only six shots. The gun seems to function well.
I've got some Hornady .530" round balls, and some pre-lubed patches in .010" and .015".
I started with a cap on an empty gun, got ignition, and a burst of air from the muzzle. All good.
For the first shot, I put in 60gr of Pyrodex P. Used the same charge on all the shots today. The Lyman manual says 100gr of Pyrodex P is MAX for this gun, using PRB.
For ther first loading, I used one .010" patch. It was too loose, the ball gave very little resistance loading. That shot hit low and right on the target.
Subsequent shots I used two .010" patches, and that gave a snug fit.
My target was only at 30 yards. I wanted to ensure I was on paper. Using a 6 oclock hold, my group was 2" high at 30 yards, and just slightly left of center. Group size for five shots was 1.5", with three touching.
Overall I'm happy with the first shots. Need to drift that rear sight right a touch. Next I'll move back to 50 yards and see where it's hitting. And chronograph.
Here's a few pics,
Measuring 60gr into a 45-70 case, via 30gr spout,
.530" ball, and two .010" patches,
RWS #11 caps,
Ignition,
Target,
Five into 1.5" at 30 yards. That's a double on the lower left.
Well I put the first rounds through the rifle this afternoon. Only six shots. The gun seems to function well.
I've got some Hornady .530" round balls, and some pre-lubed patches in .010" and .015".
I started with a cap on an empty gun, got ignition, and a burst of air from the muzzle. All good.
For the first shot, I put in 60gr of Pyrodex P. Used the same charge on all the shots today. The Lyman manual says 100gr of Pyrodex P is MAX for this gun, using PRB.
For ther first loading, I used one .010" patch. It was too loose, the ball gave very little resistance loading. That shot hit low and right on the target.
Subsequent shots I used two .010" patches, and that gave a snug fit.
My target was only at 30 yards. I wanted to ensure I was on paper. Using a 6 oclock hold, my group was 2" high at 30 yards, and just slightly left of center. Group size for five shots was 1.5", with three touching.
Overall I'm happy with the first shots. Need to drift that rear sight right a touch. Next I'll move back to 50 yards and see where it's hitting. And chronograph.
Here's a few pics,
Measuring 60gr into a 45-70 case, via 30gr spout,
.530" ball, and two .010" patches,
RWS #11 caps,
Ignition,
Target,
Five into 1.5" at 30 yards. That's a double on the lower left.
Nice shooting MM!
It is fun to step back with these older style rifles. You're motivating me to get my TC Hawken out for some fresh air!
I moved back to 60 yards today and shot over the chrono. Velocity averaged 1328. Accuracy really fell apart, opened up to 8". Very random pattern.
This was the .530" ball, two .010" patches, and 60gr Pyrodex-P.
The manual that came with the gun indicated a .535" ball, patch not specified. I had these .530" on hand already, but looks like I need the .535", and at least a .015" patch. I'll have to work through that. May need to up the powder charge too, but I'll take it step by step and see where things go.
I know you’re diggin in your heels, but some Swiss black or similar might be real good to you. I was a pyrodex guy for awhile but using a spit patch to clean the bore and then either steamy hot water or some windex with vinegar sure makes life easy.
I know you’ll sort it out though. It’s a fun as hell.
I’ve been waiting to see one of our fellow Marines from Colorado with his BP rifle and a great buck or bull under it.
I was out on the weekend shooting my .54 flintlock, for the first time in about 18 months.
It works best with a .530 ball and denim patching - the start was a little tight when I built it, but I turned up a coning tool and just took the crown back to the groove diameter and it makes all the difference.
Best hunting load in this rifle is 90 grains of fff - I use fff to prevent having to carry separate priming powder.
I'd forgotten how much fun it is, and burned a pile of powder giving folks at the range a shot. Todays job is knapping the flints back to sharp.
If you can get some real black give that a go too. Good chance it will be more accurate than Pyrodex.
^^^THIS^^^
Mine really liked 90 grains of REAL Black Powder. 🤠
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
I used to fret some over the non-authentic appearance of the modern kinda-sorta reproduction MLs like TC Hawkens. Then I saw an original New England half-stock for sale at one of the ML vendor sites. Aside from having some more drop to the buttstock, it was very close in appearance to a TC, down to that fancy brass trigger guard.
Yep, I've seen originals that look an awful lot like a T/C Hawken myself. No, the T/C doesn't look much like an original Hawken but there were other makers turning out half stock muzzleloaders in the 1800's.
Thanks for the tips guys. I'm not opposed to BP, it's just that the Pyrodex was easily available, and I had good results with it back in the day. But I will try some different patch/ball/charge combos and see what's what.
.535 round ball, .018 pillow tick, any cap that will go pop. 80 grains of RS. Dirty, but my deerstalker loved it. Killed several deer with that combo.
That's definitely the direction I'm heading.
I was checking the powder volume vs weight of my 60gr charge of P. My flask has a 30gr spout. That spout only holds 21.5gr by weight, per my reloading scale.
So, I'll also start putting three 30gr spouts per load, making 64.5gr by weight. See how that goes.
Just a coincidence, that amount (three spouts) fills a 45-70 case right to the rim. (I've been using the 45-70 case to measure the charge into, avoiding flask directly to barrel).
I had to do a little modification to the stock. It just didn't fit my face and I could barely get lined up on the sights. Also it was hitting my cheekbone on firing.
So, I broke out the rasp and sandpaper and got rid of that Monte Carlo stock (grin). I'll strip and refinish the whole stock once I know it's fine-tuned to my liking. For now I just hit it with some Tung Oil.
Now I have good room to get a comfortable cheek weld, and be behind the sights.
I've got some .535" balls, and .018" pillow ticking patches in the pipeline, from Midway.
Try the .530 as well. Those and the .018 combined with shallow rifling may be the ticket.
When this order arrives, I'll have balls in .530 and .535 on hand, as well as patches in .010, .015, and .018. I'll try different charges of powder as well. Surely there will be a combo somewhere in there that shoots well.
I used a deer antler, drilled it out until it hit 80 grains per my reloading scale, then just dump and pour. Also get a powder measure, shoot groups from 60 to 100 in 10 grain increments and roll with the best one. Good luck
I used a deer antler, drilled it out until it hit 80 grains per my reloading scale, then just dump and pour. Also get a powder measure, shoot groups from 60 to 100 in 10 grain increments and roll with the best one. Good luck
.535" ball, and .015" patch, 90gr (volume) Pyrodex P. 50 yards. The group is the holes marked with a triangle.
Best four measure 1.6" ctc. The flyer at 6 o'clock I believe was my fault. Low sun from behind was putting significant glare on back of the rear sight. Wind was 10-20 mph, full value, from 9 o'clock.
I tried to load the .535" ball with a .018" pillow ticking patch, but it would not load. I pressed hard enough to leave a significant ring mark on the ball, but no dice. So I tried the .015" patch. Very snug to get started, but didn't mark the ball with the starter.
The .018" patch might be just the ticket with the .530" ball. I'll try that another time.
I used a deer antler, drilled it out until it hit 80 grains per my reloading scale, then just dump and pour. Also get a powder measure, shoot groups from 60 to 100 in 10 grain increments and roll with the best one. Good luck
Hand-crafted stuff like that is very cool.
A former co-worker mad powder horns, Old style, scrimshawed, with maps and such. And other handmade accouterments.
One thing was powder measures from the branch of an antler. His were less adorned, more rustic.
The fangs formed a spout that guided the powder into the barrel.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
I used a deer antler, drilled it out until it hit 80 grains per my reloading scale, then just dump and pour. Also get a powder measure, shoot groups from 60 to 100 in 10 grain increments and roll with the best one. Good luck
Hand-crafted stuff like that is very cool.
A former co-worker mad powder horns, Old style, scrimshawed, with maps and such. And other handmade accouterments.
One thing was powder measures from the branch of an antler. His were less adorned, more rustic.
The fangs formed a spout that guided the powder into the barrel.
.535" ball, and .015" patch, 90gr (volume) Pyrodex P. 50 yards. The group is the holes marked with a triangle.
Best four measure 1.6" ctc. The flyer at 6 o'clock I believe was my fault. Low sun from behind was putting significant glare on back of the rear sight. Wind was 10-20 mph, full value, from 9 o'clock.
I tried to load the .535" ball with a .018" pillow ticking patch, but it would not load. I pressed hard enough to leave a significant ring mark on the ball, but no dice. So I tried the .015" patch. Very snug to get started, but didn't mark the ball with the starter.
The .018" patch might be just the ticket with the .530" ball. I'll try that another time.
That's where I am in my .54, .530 ball and .018 pillow ticking.
The last time that bear ate a lawyer he had the runs for 33 days!
Nice shooting, it makes it even better when you start to see the progress!
That rifle is coming along real well from my view.
Yes it's nice when things start coming together. The mod I did on the stock comb is working well also. Got the comb off my cheekbone.
On the last target pic I shared, those four holes marked in circles, was my 60-yard 'pattern' using the .530" ball, two .010" patches, and 60gr powder, by volume.
Night and day difference in making some adjustments.
I'm going to use this load to get my sights dialed in for windage. I need to do it on a cloudy or overcast day though, to minimize glare on the sights.
At the moment the load is hitting about 2.5" high at 50 yards. I'm not going to mess with elevation adjustments, as this should be pretty close to dead-on at about 100 yards.
Comparing two ball/patch combo's at 50 yards today. Temp was 26F, wind chill 19F. Both loads used a 45-70 case full of Pyrodex P (64 grains by weight).
I fired the three shots with each combo alternately, at the same aim point. I marked holes with circle, and triangle as I went along, to keep them identified by ball/patch combo.
The .535" ball with .015" patch (marked with triangle) turned in a nice 1" 3-shot group, about 1.25" above aim point.
The .530" ball with .018" patch turned in a 2.5" 3-shot group, but the first shot (clean bore) was the highest one on the target. The other two fell within 1" of each other, right at the point of aim.
Both ball/patch combo's look pretty good, and load with equal resistance in the bore.
Thanks, definitely good to 50 yards. I need to prove this load at 75 yards, and 100 yards. I'm going to go ahead with the .535" ball and .015" patch combo.
I saw that. I might try that for my Sharps as well. Been using a paper plate on a brown backer that seemed good. That painters tape looks like it could work as well.
You’re making me want to dig out the box of accessories and get my dad’s TC 45 Flinter out. Spent a good bit of time trying to find a fit about 12 years ago. Similar journey. Never did get down to that accuracy you found but was satisfied. It’s an enjoyable afternoon at the range for sure. Big fan of Blue tape at the range. It’s easy to see on cardboard and can be cut shape for whatever target size is needed.
I used to only shoot shotguns and rimfires, then I made the mistake of getting a subscription to handloader.......
Tried a .535" ball with a .010" patch today. It loaded a little too easy. 50-yard accuracy was not as good as the .015" patch. The fired patches were in shreds.
Tried a .535" ball with a .010" patch today. It loaded a little too easy. 50-yard accuracy was not as good as the .015" patch. The fired patches were in shreds.
Barrel clean up easy? Those rifles seem to be a great rifle for the money, especially if you're handy at all with a few tools.
After the test above, I moved back to 75 yards, to check the accuracy at that distance with the .535" ball/.015" patch, over 64gr of Pyrodex P.
Wind was nearly calm. Temp about 35F. Accuracy for the best four was 1 7/8" at 75 yards. The flyer up high was shot number 2. Probably my fault. Anyhoo, this is going to be the load for this rifle.
We have the Heritage Season in a couple weeks, and I have a deer tag, so hopefully we will put some meat on the ground with this rifle.
Tried a .535" ball with a .010" patch today. It loaded a little too easy. 50-yard accuracy was not as good as the .015" patch. The fired patches were in shreds.
Barrel clean up easy? Those rifles seem to be a great rifle for the money, especially if you're handy at all with a few tools.
Yes it's cleaning up very easy. I have been cleaning it with Bore Tech Eliminator. I know, not the traditional hot soapy water, but It's convenient, as I use it on all the rifles, and it cleans up the powder fouling real nicely with just a jag/patch, no brush needed.
Nice, Bob (MagBob) on here turned me onto Windex with Vinegar. I got one of those little tupperware containers, wadded them in there and dumped a bunch in there. Nice to have to clean that stuff up. Then Gunner directed me onto using plain old olive oil to lube the bore and such. In my Sharps both of those has made clean up a snap.
And damn good shooting at 75 yards in my opinion. I believe you are hammering now.
Nice, Bob (MagBob) on here turned me onto Windex with Vinegar. I got one of those little tupperware containers, wadded them in there and dumped a bunch in there. Nice to have to clean that stuff up. Then Gunner directed me onto using plain old olive oil to lube the bore and such. In my Sharps both of those has made clean up a snap.
And damn good shooting at 75 yards in my opinion. I believe you are hammering now.
Good info on the cleanup/oiling.
Yeah, I'm real happy with the 75-yard accuracy.
I didn't need to make any adjustments for elevation. It's about 2-3" high at mid-range, but I don't mind with these sights, I can do a 6-o'clock hold pretty easily. I only needed to make a couple small windage corrections by drifting the rear sight.
I run "P" powder in all my guns, here in Idaho. One thing I've added to the load, to make it run the same in subzero temps, is a little 3f swiss black powder under the pyrodex. Just deduct how much you use from your current load. 20 grains of black is what I put in my 54s. The ignition, report and recoil are almost "centerfire like".....and it does burn clean.
If you start getting delays in ignition, when it turns cold, you may want to give it a try.
I run "P" powder in all my guns, here in Idaho. One thing I've added to the load, to make it run the same in subzero temps, is a little 3f swiss black powder under the pyrodex. Just deduct how much you use from your current load. 20 grains of black is what I put in my 54s. The ignition, report and recoil are almost "centerfire like".....and it does burn clean.
If you start getting delays in ignition, when it turns cold, you may want to give it a try.
I've had a 54 Trade Rifle flintlock for 20+ years. Used RB to start but went to TC Maxi. 95gr of FFF Goex.
Last February I picked up a TC Renegade 54 percussion. Still playing with it. Couldn't find #11 caps so went with 209 conversion. That was a PIA. The caps were so stuck it took forever to get them out. Found #11s a few weeks ago and they're ok. Last shot seemed to have a little hangfire. Shooting Pyrodex out of it. I've since learned form the conversion manufacturer that I should back off the cap a full thread or so. I may go back to that and try it. The 209s definitely fired hotter.
Also found 54 cal maxi bullets from No Excuses. A lot heavier than the TCs but available.
"There is no excellance in Archery without great labor". Maurice Thompson 1879
Nothing clears a troubled mind better than shooting a bow. Fred Bear
I haven't tried anything but round balls. I think I'll most likely stay with the RB myself, just to avoid any barrel leading issues. That was why I chose 54 caliber in the first place, because the 54 RB has some weight to it.
If I decide to try a conical or maxi, I might just pick up a 50 caliber. It looks like there are a lot more 50 cal offerings for the conical and maxi projectiles.
But I think my next move will be to get into casting some .535" RBs.
BTW, I didn't make a kill with this Trade Rifle this season.
Was kind of tempted to harvest a 3x3 that was showing himself around the house during the rut. It could have been an easy shot under 50 yards, but it didn't feel like a very honorable thing to do......grin.
While typically anymore, I choose RB's out of my 54's. But don't overlook big ol conicals for pure knockdown power! I did shoot those for a while, never had any leading issues. But finally decided they were just too much of a good thing for midwestern whitetail.
It isn't what happens to you that defines you, it's what you DO about what happens to you that defines you!
Nice, Bob (MagBob) on here turned me onto Windex with Vinegar. I got one of those little tupperware containers, wadded them in there and dumped a bunch in there. Nice to have to clean that stuff up. Then Gunner directed me onto using plain old olive oil to lube the bore and such. In my Sharps both of those has made clean up a snap.
And damn good shooting at 75 yards in my opinion. I believe you are hammering now.
I used the Windex with Vinegar today after 'unloading' the rifle. Works great!
Nice, Bob (MagBob) on here turned me onto Windex with Vinegar. I got one of those little tupperware containers, wadded them in there and dumped a bunch in there. Nice to have to clean that stuff up. Then Gunner directed me onto using plain old olive oil to lube the bore and such. In my Sharps both of those has made clean up a snap.
And damn good shooting at 75 yards in my opinion. I believe you are hammering now.
I used the Windex with Vinegar today after 'unloading' the rifle. Works great!
Wished I could take credit for it MM, but Bob steered me correct.
Honestly, my experience with Black Powder has been awesome. Even being a part neanderthal it has been easy when I have listened to my elders and done as they have already learned.
Here's a pic after I refinished that comb that I rasped off. I didn't end up stripping down the entire stock. I stained the rasped off area with a couple applications of dark walnut stain, then put six coats of tung oil over it, with a little 0000 steel wool action between coats.
The blend in with the original stock isn't perfect, but it came out pretty close, and I'm happy with it.
I ordered the rifle from Dixie Gun Works. In their description, it says the rifle is made in Italy by Investarms. I believe the same people that actually made the GPR's???
I had a couple Investarms guns. Cannot recommend them. The Lyman guns I owned were inferior in finish to the Thompson Center rifles I'd owned and the Investarms versions were even cruder than the Lyman-branded rifles. I'm not sure it is possible to get a decent quality mass produced side lock anymore. Very disappointed overall.
Anyone who thinks there's two sides to everything hasn't met a M�bius strip.
I ordered the rifle from Dixie Gun Works. In their description, it says the rifle is made in Italy by Investarms. I believe the same people that actually made the GPR's???
I had a couple Investarms guns. Cannot recommend them. The Lyman guns I owned were inferior in finish to the Thompson Center rifles I'd owned and the Investarms versions were even cruder than the Lyman-branded rifles. I'm not sure it is possible to get a decent quality mass produced side lock anymore. Very disappointed overall.
It took some work for me to smooth out the action on this lock. I ended up putting 600 grit firelapping compound on the trigger/sear engagement surfaces then 'marrying' them by pushing forward on the hammer while pulling the trigger, about 200 times. Of course I put some wadded up leather over the nipple while doing that.
I've never owned a T/C, but from all accounts they were/are still a superior product at a reasonable price. The lock on the CVA kit I built in the 1970's came with a pretty smooth lock, as issued.
BTW, I didn't make a kill with this Trade Rifle this season.
Was kind of tempted to harvest a 3x3 that was showing himself around the house during the rut. It could have been an easy shot under 50 yards, but it didn't feel like a very honorable thing to do......grin.
Ha Ha I know the feeling. I drew a special late season buck tag one time thinking I would bag one of the trophy bucks that would come around the house in Jan. When the big one showed up and laid down in a snowstorm out back of the garage, I drew a bead on him but I could see his big brown eye blinking to shed snowflakes...couldn't do it. Like you said, not honorable.
This past muzzleloader season, only deer in front of me were a couple first year fawns. I figured they needed to expirience at least 1 winter and left them alone. But the way they were lined up, my 1 shot could have gotten both of them! Using the 54 cal CVA St. Louis Hawken kit gun, 90 grains of Goex FFg with a patched round ball.
Last edited by DeanAnderson; 01/30/24. Reason: add picture
It isn't what happens to you that defines you, it's what you DO about what happens to you that defines you!
All I've ever used in my .50 T/C Hawken in patched balls and Goex fffg. All I've ever used to clean it is plain hot water. No soap, no vinegar, no windex, no need for any of that stuff. I've put several pounds of powder and several hundred balls through it over the last 20 odd years and the bore is still spotless and it still shoots cloverleafs from 50 yards. I use a charge of 75 gr's and have had zero issues killing deer with that load from 10-75 yards.
All I've ever used in my .50 T/C Hawken in patched balls and Goex fffg. All I've ever used to clean it is plain hot water. No soap, no vinegar, no windex, no need for any of that stuff. I've put several pounds of powder and several hundred balls through it over the last 20 odd years and the bore is still spotless and it still shoots cloverleafs from 50 yards. I use a charge of 75 gr's and have had zero issues killing deer with that load from 10-75 yards.
BH, do you just spit patch to clean it at the range?
All I've ever used in my .50 T/C Hawken in patched balls and Goex fffg. All I've ever used to clean it is plain hot water. No soap, no vinegar, no windex, no need for any of that stuff. I've put several pounds of powder and several hundred balls through it over the last 20 odd years and the bore is still spotless and it still shoots cloverleafs from 50 yards. I use a charge of 75 gr's and have had zero issues killing deer with that load from 10-75 yards.
BH, do you just spit patch to clean it at the range?
If I shoot more than 6 shots yes. Up to 6 I can just reload and it continues to put ball after ball into tiny groups with no shift in POI. After 6 it just gets too hard to seat another ball so I'll spit patch it out. I got rid of my inline because the sunofabitch had to be cleaned after every shot or the POI shifted several inches at 50 yards from shot to shot. What a PITA that was.
All I've ever used in my .50 T/C Hawken in patched balls and Goex fffg. All I've ever used to clean it is plain hot water. No soap, no vinegar, no windex, no need for any of that stuff. I've put several pounds of powder and several hundred balls through it over the last 20 odd years and the bore is still spotless and it still shoots cloverleafs from 50 yards. I use a charge of 75 gr's and have had zero issues killing deer with that load from 10-75 yards.
BH, do you just spit patch to clean it at the range?
If I shoot more than 6 shots yes. Up to 6 I can just reload and it continues to put ball after ball into tiny groups with no shift in POI. After 6 it just gets too had to seat another ball so I'll spit patch it out. I got rid of my inline because the sunofabitch had to be cleaned after every shot or the POI shifted several inches at 50 yards from shot to shot. What a PITA that was.
It is nice to not use anything special for them other than hot water if you want. I have a 50 TC Hawken. Never fired the first ball thru it yet.
What do you use for oil in the bore? I have been using olive oil in my BPCR, but wasn't sure what others are using.
All I've ever used in my .50 T/C Hawken in patched balls and Goex fffg. All I've ever used to clean it is plain hot water. No soap, no vinegar, no windex, no need for any of that stuff. I've put several pounds of powder and several hundred balls through it over the last 20 odd years and the bore is still spotless and it still shoots cloverleafs from 50 yards. I use a charge of 75 gr's and have had zero issues killing deer with that load from 10-75 yards.
BH, do you just spit patch to clean it at the range?
If I shoot more than 6 shots yes. Up to 6 I can just reload and it continues to put ball after ball into tiny groups with no shift in POI. After 6 it just gets too had to seat another ball so I'll spit patch it out. I got rid of my inline because the sunofabitch had to be cleaned after every shot or the POI shifted several inches at 50 yards from shot to shot. What a PITA that was.
It is nice to not use anything special for them other than hot water if you want. I have a 50 TC Hawken. Never fired the first ball thru it yet.
What do you use for oil in the bore? I have been using olive oil in my BPCR, but wasn't sure what others are using.
Never used anything but bore butter. Same for patch lube.
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