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That is light for those barrel contours! What stock are you using?

Interesting. I have seen the opposite, at least before Bryan Litz updated most of Berger’s BC values. In terms of Hornady, I saw the same thing with the older bullets, but the newer ELDs have matched published BC values very well, both when assessed via trajectory at distance as well as velocity loss via chrono. Again, IME.

Here's my 2 cents, I started shooting Bergers in 2005 for LR Hunting because my bullet of choice then the NP dropped like a rock after 500. Ive shot alot of Elk, deer and antelope with thec30 cal 215's and 140 6.5's and ive never had a failure they all have destroyed the vitals and basically DRT. They are consistent right out of the box and shoot better at LR than any other bullet I have tested against the Bergers. I do make sure all tips are not plugged with polishing compound. I am also am not in the camp of spinning them anymore than necessary by that I mean 10 twist for 215- 220, 6.5 - 8 twists for 140 and 7mm- 180, 9 twists. Ive heard all the the knocks on them but ive never seen it or heard from others i know of who shoot Bergers.
The only 2 bullet failures I've ever had were the Barnes when they first came out about 35 years ago a buddy and I tried them and him and I shot a deer 5 times before it died and all penciled through, later Barnes admitted they made those bullets out of 2 hard of copper. About 25 years ago I tried the Nos Balistic tips 140 with my wife's 7mm-08 and the bullet exploded on a WT ribs right behind the shoulder. That was a 6hr fiasco.
As far as moose with Bergers my Brother, Nephew and wife all shot really nice Yukon Moose with the 7mm 180 Bergers about 4 years ago and worked great even the guide was impressed with how they killed them..
Basically hit them were there suppose to go and theres plenty of bullets that will work, I just don't like leaving any accuracy on the table so to speak shooting LR

Sound logic, yes, but my experience has been that it doesn’t pan out in the real world until you step up to a much larger caliber. I believe JB has mentioned a couple of studies that bear this out, or arrive at a similar conclusion, at least.

If you want stopping power, whether in a .257” or a .308” bullet, pick a mono and crush bone in the vicinity of the CNS.

I was thinking the same myself.

And I’ve have 0 qualms about any moose with a good 7 and a good 175 bullet. The extra a 300 would give using equal bullets might take a lot to measure the difference in my opinion.

This, but we digress...

It is straight up wrong and disgusting to shoot moose with anything Hornady

Moose deserve far better than that

Sounds like a good option. I have 2 300wby magnums that weight 7 pounds on the nose. One an XTR sporter in a pacific research:


The other is a pre 64 model 70 in a Brown PoundR stock:



Scoped weight is 8 pounds.


The pre 64 holds 4 in the mag box.. That's how I'd roll. I could be talked out of the XTR, for the right price. The pre 64's I'm hanging on to for a while.

These rifles shoot pretty good, considering they are lightweight 300 magnums.

Is it the same as "high caliber" ? lol

Manner EH4 stock. Comes in at 6# 2.7 oz bare, according to the electronic scale. Those spiral flutes take off a TON of weight. With that said, the PROOF is still lighter.

I believe in logistics over ballistics (up to a point) so I’d start with the cartridge and work out from there. In a 24” barrel, the 30-06 will push a 180-grain bullet 2,800 fps. You’ll usually get five in the magazine, brass is common, and the barrel will last longer than with an overbore cartridge. 1:10 twist is standard, which works with long/heavy bullets.

Beyond that, I’d look at what kind of shooting your son anticipates: will he shoot standing in timber or prone in open country? What optics does he prefer? Will he shoot suppressed? What finished weight is he looking for? That should narrow your options.

The rifle shown below is a Model 70 Classic Sporter in 30-06 that has been pillar bedded into a Bansner stock. It’s 6.71 pounds without the Nightforce SHV 3-10 shown in this picture. For better long-range performance within the parameters you stated, I’d look at a 7mm cartridge.


Okie John

Rifle will be an all around - standing in timber or sloughs or prone on the prairie, antelope to moose and everything in between. Sub 7# finished weight on it. Will be scoped with a Leupold VX5 3-15x44. I would like to stay with a short action, but if the weight can be kept down, a long action wouldn't be out of the question. It will be shot suppressed or with a brake. I like the idea of a 30 caliber magnum, but the 7 SAUM would simplify the program if the same load shoots in both his rifle and mine (would be the same reamer). I prefer a 22" tube on a rifle that will have a suppressor on it, but acknowledge that a magnum round may need the extra 2" to optimize case capacity. I'm vacillating between 7mm and .308 magnums. If a guy goes long action, it would seem that the 300 PRC or the 300 Norma might be the ticket. In a short action, I lean toward the 7 SAUM. The discussion around the options and best choice of chambering have been very helpful and I much appreciate the discussion.