24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
-->
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,177
G
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,177
The only rifles I shoot groups with, from a benchrest, are my BR and "F" class rifles. The hunting rifles, I shoot off my elbows and like to stay within a couple inches at 110 yds (what my range is). At three hundred meters, I can always hit a gallon milk jug from prone, almost always hit from unsupported sitting (90%), and manage about 50% hits offhand. I consider this good enough to hunt. I may have some 1/2 moa hunting rifles, but I don't know or care. Back when I used to go to turkey shoots for hunting rifles, I worried about how well they shot. Today, if I can hit the milk jug, I can hit any big game animal I'm going to be hunting, at any range at which I'll be shooting.
I want the rifle to be nice to carry, I want to be absolutely certain it will function. GD

GB1

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,139
3
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,139
Goid perspective from a bench rest shooter. Those gallon milk jugs make great practical targets!

Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 147
Campfire Member
Online Content
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 147
Great thread...My preferred standards are:

-Reliability (prefer mauser control round feed)
-Accuracy usually around 1"
-Fit ie. shoulders and points well
-Looks, prefer classic looking rifles
-internal mag w/floor plate.
-weight (not to light) prefer 8-9lbs all rigged out. Scoped, with sling, and ammo holder w/ rounds on the stock.
-good adjustable trigger- prefer no creep.
-iron sights for back up
-optic 2-7X, 3-9X, straight 6- Not very caught up on a set standard.
-all around cartridge ready to handle deer, black bear, moose, elk and etc...6.5x55, 270 win, 7x57/7x64, 30-06, 8x57, 8mm-06, 9.3x62

In saying I have many rifles that fall out of that line and I still use them with success.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,139
3
Campfire Regular
OP Online Content
Campfire Regular
3
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,139
Looks like the rifle in the pic checks all the boxes.

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586
D
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
D
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,586
Originally Posted by 260Remguy
As PAbucktail wrote, it depends where you're hunting.

You wouldn't play a round of golf with one club, so why would you want to hunt with one rifle for all terrain and ranges?

When I hunt in tight cover, I prefer to use a fast handling short barreled pump or semi-auto that will cycle reliably and make at least 3 MOA groups.

When I hunt in open country, I prefer to use a bolt action with at least a 20" barrel that will reliably make at least MOA groups.

Cutting edge rifle accuracy is like manufacturing production accuracy, in that squeezing the last 5%, from 95% to 100%, probably costs more than getting from 0% to 95% did.


To which I'd add not just where you are hunting but how you are hunting and what you are hunting.

For example, if you are hunting from a stand, or for that matter culling from a vehicle under a spotlight, weight doesn't matter, and more is probably a good thing for steadiness. Hunting in the mountains or thick cover, it is much less desirable IMHO, and personally I like a light rifle - you do need to learn how to shoot it well though, as technique is more important when you have less weight to dampen tremor.

If I'm culling pigs on foot, especially in cover, I want a rifle which is not just light and comes to the shoulder quickly, but which cycles smoothly and reliably, and which I can readily stuff more rounds into without looking. Accuracy is a nice to have, but for shooting pigs at the gallop at 100 yards or less it isn't the most important quality. For deer, which I'll usually shoot one at a time, the quick reloading is not really a factor, though I still like the rifle to be light for walking them up in the conditions I usually hunt them, so I may even use a light little drilling or a light little single-shot that I have.

I have several rifles which will do a good deal better than 1 moa for 5 rounds. However I also have rifles which wont, but make up for it with other qualities that suit them for their purpose. For example, I have a double rifle in 9.3x74R, which will group 4 rounds (2 from each barrel) into about 2.5 moa. However it handles well, is compact for the barrel length, and puts two rounds downrange in the blink of an eye. I can also drop two more into the breech in short order. For big critters like buffalo in the paperbark or sambar in among the blackberries and lantana the accuracy is more than good enough. I wouldn't use it for hunting goats in the mountains though, or on the open plains either, for that matter.

Horses for courses.

IC B2

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,485
T
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,485
Originally Posted by 300_savage
Debate with a friend, who can't live with a big game rifle, deer and up, that won't group under an inch for 5 shots at 100 yards. He's spent a lot of money in that pursuit. I said that just decent grouping, perhaps defined as 1.5 " - 2" for 5 shots would work for me IF:

1. Handling qualities, balance and weight, were what I liked and the rifle fit me

2. Rifle holds zero reliably year to year, and for all shots of a minimum 5 shot string. No first cold shot fliers (most important) and no walking as it heats up for a magazine full of quick, aimed shots.

3. Reliable feeding, extraction, and ejection whether working the action slowly or quickly.

I think in today's world, criteria 2 and 3 are harder to find than it is to find a sub MOA rifle, and wouldn't get rid of a rifle that met those standards even if a sub 1" group seldom happened. It would be the first rifle I'd grab for an important hunt.

How about you? I'm talking a general big game rifle, not a specialized long range rig.


i hunt close cover deer, ie. thorn thickets, mountain laurel, brush and such. i have used bolt, lever, pump, semi, and single shots, from 22-250AI all the way up 45-70.

the handling, balance and weight go from good to great. every rifle i have or had holds a zero. the feeding, extraction and ejection are great.

even tho i handload and have sub inch rifles, i had a change of mind on sub minute rifles. as long as i can go (open sights) 3 to 4" at 100 yards (5 shots) or scoped, 2-3" at 100 yards (5 shots), it is good to go. i used be one of those guys who said anything over a 1" at 100 (5 shots), then get rid of it. i don't do competitive shooting, i do it for fun. the best group i ever did was .173" at 100 yards (5 shots/bench) in a TC Encore with a 23" MGM barrel in 20 Vartarg with 32gr Hornady Vmax and Reloder 7.

anyway, my pick for a hunting rifle is a 1972 Winchester m94 with a William FP aperture sight in 35/30-30.

200gr RCBS FN GC with 2400/tuft if Dacron going 1726fps. i was sighting it in with 2 shots at 100 yards.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

in the past 5 years (last year i didn't hunt, i was recovering from a heart cath surgery), it has killed three doe and one 4pt. i had the m94 in 30-30 since i was 14yo. then 6 or 7 years ago, i sent the m94 to JES Reboring and he did a wonderful job on it. 1 week to mail it. 1 week with JES. 1 week to mail it back to me.


i have a #2 pick and that is a 1936 Husqvarna m46 in 9.3x57 with 275gr WFN GC and IMR4895 going roughly 1800+/-fps.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

i have killed 6 or 7 deer with it. its lightweight, an excellent stoned trigger and a Dayton Traister striker spring and cocking piece (makes it cock on open). also, my gunsmith D&T for a 2-7x Leopold.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by tdoyka; 11/10/23.

"Russia sucks."
---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B

Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".

Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,794
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 21,794
It's gotta work.
Otherwise its a club.


Reliably hold zero, little groups off target ain't Schmidt.


I'm not a stand hunter, it's sure nice if it's comfortable to handle and quick on target.


Good accuracy is last for me.

I expect MOA, and am not happy with less.
But I'm shooting deer under 200 yards(usually).
That doesn't require much precision.







I'd bet most big game is killed by guys who have either never shot a 5 shot group, or else haven't shot one in years.


Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
J
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
J
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
First and foremost...I have to enjoy using it.


These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,265
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 17,265
Originally Posted by JSTUART
First and foremost...I have to enjoy using it.

Exactly. It has to be MY rifle to start with. Then dependability, then trigger, lastly, be at least as accurate as I am. 99% of rifles can outshoot me so the accuracy is a moot point.


"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson

GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon!

"A Well Regulated Militia" Life Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,167
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,167
I'm like most I guess. My rifle has to be dependable and safe foremost, but I want to be able to trust its accuracy. That means to shoot my favorite loads under 1 1/4 inches at 100 yards with enough groups under an inch to keep me interested. I don't need it to be more accurate than that...I want it to be butter smooth in feeding, easy handling and light enough that I don't mind carrying it. To me this all adds up to my Husqvarna Husky in 30/06. The fact that it is very easy for me to look at, having a stock with heavy fiddleback figure, is the final plus that will ensure that my sons will end up deciding who the next owner will be.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


Harry
IC B3

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,378
H
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
H
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,378
I choose older model 70's, pre 64 or SS classics, open trigger design, featherweight barrel contour with the factory wood stock or a quality after market synthetic stock,, weighing in about 8 lbs. scoped.

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,774
1
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
1
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,774
Originally Posted by 8MMX57JS
Great thread...My preferred standards are:

-Reliability (prefer mauser control round feed)
-Accuracy usually around 1"
-Fit ie. shoulders and points well
-Looks, prefer classic looking rifles
-internal mag w/floor plate.
-weight (not to light) prefer 8-9lbs all rigged out. Scoped, with sling, and ammo holder w/ rounds on the stock.
-good adjustable trigger- prefer no creep.
-iron sights for back up
-optic 2-7X, 3-9X, straight 6- Not very caught up on a set standard.
-all around cartridge ready to handle deer, black bear, moose, elk and etc...6.5x55, 270 win, 7x57/7x64, 30-06, 8x57, 8mm-06, 9.3x62

In saying I have many rifles that fall out of that line and I still use them with success.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
So this picture troubles me a lot. That looks to me to be a wood stock but I know some synthetic stocks can mimic wood pretty good. I feel that the melted snow will find its way into the rifle and cause bad things to happen, such as rust and ice forming which can do damage in other ways. Am I looking at this wrong?


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,278
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 30,278
Originally Posted by 19352012
So this picture troubles me a lot. That looks to me to be a wood stock but I know some synthetic stocks can mimic wood pretty good. I feel that the melted snow will find its way into the rifle and cause bad things to happen, such as rust and ice forming which can do damage in other ways. Am I looking at this wrong?

I can't speak for 8mm, but if the stockside metal has been oiled properly, and the stock sealed, I see no problem. My stainless/synthetic rifles get snow and ice covered all the time. Blued steel and wood doesn't change anything, it just requires a little extra prep and attention, and actually stainless can be a deceptive trap lulling one in to a false sense of security.

You've either been trained to take care of a weapon, or not. In which case you can make youtube videos abusing rifles...


“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,325
P
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
P
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,325
Originally Posted by 19352012
Originally Posted by 8MMX57JS
Great thread...My preferred standards are:

-Reliability (prefer mauser control round feed)
-Accuracy usually around 1"
-Fit ie. shoulders and points well
-Looks, prefer classic looking rifles
-internal mag w/floor plate.
-weight (not to light) prefer 8-9lbs all rigged out. Scoped, with sling, and ammo holder w/ rounds on the stock.
-good adjustable trigger- prefer no creep.
-iron sights for back up
-optic 2-7X, 3-9X, straight 6- Not very caught up on a set standard.
-all around cartridge ready to handle deer, black bear, moose, elk and etc...6.5x55, 270 win, 7x57/7x64, 30-06, 8x57, 8mm-06, 9.3x62

In saying I have many rifles that fall out of that line and I still use them with success.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
So this picture troubles me a lot. That looks to me to be a wood stock but I know some synthetic stocks can mimic wood pretty good. I feel that the melted snow will find its way into the rifle and cause bad things to happen, such as rust and ice forming which can do damage in other ways. Am I looking at this wrong?

Do not be troubled, this is just a reliable rifle doing reliable rifle things. Any military bolt action or sporter derived from such will be fine. Any old Model 70 or Ruger 77 will be fine. Things like Remingtons, Kimbers, Ruger Americans, Tikkas, and so on may or may not be okay here. Generally, coming back to a warm place to dry out and get wiped down will allow any rifle to handle stuff like this just fine. Where things start to go sideways is doing stuff like this and making the rifle live in a tent or a foxhole the whole time.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,947
M
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,947
I have one more criteria: Unless you can be positively assured that you will not get a zero change during inclement weather with a/your wooded stock…..I do not want a wooden stock on my hunting rifle!

I’ll even add a caveat to that! I do not want a “floated” barrel in my synthetic stock on my hunting rifle. Debris (water, dirt, ect.) can get into the barrel channel, creating a pressure/contact point and causing a zero shift or open-up group size by changing barrel harmonics. Water in the channel is potentially very bad in cold climates……freezing water can swell and definitely create a contact or pressure point! Just my paranoid opinion! 😉 memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 147
Campfire Member
Online Content
Campfire Member
Joined: Feb 2023
Posts: 147
Originally Posted by 19352012
Originally Posted by 8MMX57JS
Great thread...My preferred standards are:

-Reliability (prefer mauser control round feed)
-Accuracy usually around 1"
-Fit ie. shoulders and points well
-Looks, prefer classic looking rifles
-internal mag w/floor plate.
-weight (not to light) prefer 8-9lbs all rigged out. Scoped, with sling, and ammo holder w/ rounds on the stock.
-good adjustable trigger- prefer no creep.
-iron sights for back up
-optic 2-7X, 3-9X, straight 6- Not very caught up on a set standard.
-all around cartridge ready to handle deer, black bear, moose, elk and etc...6.5x55, 270 win, 7x57/7x64, 30-06, 8x57, 8mm-06, 9.3x62

In saying I have many rifles that fall out of that line and I still use them with success.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
So this picture troubles me a lot. That looks to me to be a wood stock but I know some synthetic stocks can mimic wood pretty good. I feel that the melted snow will find its way into the rifle and cause bad things to happen, such as rust and ice forming which can do damage in other ways. Am I looking at this wrong?

Haven't had any issues hunting is such weather. When I get back to camp/home I give the rifles a good wipe down/dried. Rifle to this day is in good+ condition after many years of hard use. I treat my rifles very good and don't neglect maintenance/oiling. Treat them well and they won't fail you.

Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,961
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 1,961
Originally Posted by 8MMX57JS
Great thread...My preferred standards are:

-Reliability (prefer mauser control round feed)
-Accuracy usually around 1"
-Fit ie. shoulders and points well
-Looks, prefer classic looking rifles
-internal mag w/floor plate.
-weight (not to light) prefer 8-9lbs all rigged out. Scoped, with sling, and ammo holder w/ rounds on the stock.
-good adjustable trigger- prefer no creep.
-iron sights for back up
-optic 2-7X, 3-9X, straight 6- Not very caught up on a set standard.
-all around cartridge ready to handle deer, black bear, moose, elk and etc...6.5x55, 270 win, 7x57/7x64, 30-06, 8x57, 8mm-06, 9.3x62

In saying I have many rifles that fall out of that line and I still use them with success.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
This is my preferred prescription. I'll take one in 270win or 30-06.

Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,693
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 14,693
Originally Posted by 300_savage
Debate with a friend, who can't live with a big game rifle, deer and up, that won't group under an inch for 5 shots at 100 yards. He's spent a lot of money in that pursuit. I said that just decent grouping, perhaps defined as 1.5 " - 2" for 5 shots would work for me IF:

1. Handling qualities, balance and weight, were what I liked and the rifle fit me

2. Rifle holds zero reliably year to year, and for all shots of a minimum 5 shot string. No first cold shot fliers (most important) and no walking as it heats up for a magazine full of quick, aimed shots.

3. Reliable feeding, extraction, and ejection whether working the action slowly or quickly.

I think in today's world, criteria 2 and 3 are harder to find than it is to find a sub MOA rifle, and wouldn't get rid of a rifle that met those standards even if a sub 1" group seldom happened. It would be the first rifle I'd grab for an important hunt.

How about you? I'm talking a general big game rifle, not a specialized long range rig.
I pretty much agree with you, but I'd add "versatility" and by that I mean you should be able to shoot it more than just offhand or off a bench. You should be able to shoot it from sitting too. If the rifle can be shot from standing and from sitting, you can do anything with it. Scope placement is the biggest factor in this.


Politics is War by Other Means
Page 4 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
AX24

601 members (12344mag, 1234, 10ring1, 007FJ, 10gaugeman, 10Glocks, 56 invisible), 2,862 guests, and 1,216 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,191,798
Posts18,477,446
Members73,944
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 


Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.



Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.133s Queries: 15 (0.005s) Memory: 0.8982 MB (Peak: 1.0693 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-04-29 18:43:04 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS