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Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by TF49
Question: What might constitute a difference between Satan and Lucifer, the Light Giver?

Also, I am curious….. given your condescending comment regarding “goat herders,” I would assume you don’t hold Christians with much regard. Would a Christian not pass the “entrance exam?”
Satan is only Satan in the Bible, other times referred to as the devil. The term Lucifer was used to describe the kind of Babylon at the time and the church later used the term to refer to Satan (which it doesn't .) I was a Christian myself for 37 of my 40 years here on earth until I realized that Jesus didn't teach religion in his teachings. My use of goat herders wasn't condescending by any means. It was a reference to the uneducated people at the time that thought unexplainable things happening via science and physics to them were "magical powers of God" because they didn't understand otherwise. And people today still take those things as supernatural because it was written in the Bible. And yes, many of Christians make it into lodge as I did when I was Christian.



Here are some quotes from Albert Pike….. “A prominent member of the Freemasons, Pike served as the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Supreme Council, Scottish Rite (Southern Jurisdiction, USA) from 1859 to 1891.” Probably the most influential Mason of his time…..

Here is quote from Pike wherein he clearly refers to Masonry as a “religion.”

“Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be misled; to conceal the Truth, which it calls Light from them and to draw them away from it. p.104-5”
― Pike, Albert, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry

Here is a quote from Pike and his description of Lucifer. Not quite the vague description you posted….” The term Lucifer was used to describe the kind of Babylon at the time…”

“Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!” – Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p. 321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff.

Also……"When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft.

The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy."
Manly P. Hall (33º Freemason)


FWIW…. My father was a 33rd Degree Mason, Past Grand Master of the State of Arizona…and an active Shriner of Sabbar Temple in Tucson. I know some about Freemasonry. I quite clearly saw that my father considered the Freemasonry was the only religion he needed.

Further, the Masons do indeed require that a candidate for membership must express a “belief in God.” Ok, but note that they only have to believe in the “concept of God.” This is important as they do not have to declare WHAT their concept of God really is.

Different “concepts of God” as defined in Islam, Mormonism, Hinduism and Christianity are not compatible with one another.

If a man chooses to profess a belief that Lucifer was the brother of Jesus, that is OK by the Masons…. He has a “concept of God.” It makes no difference in the Masonic Order if this true or not. “True or Not?” An important distinction. Many prefer to believe the comforting lie rather than the uncomfortable truth.


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Just curious but you are not a Mason, your father was? And he shared with you the things you claim to be Masonic facts? Or was your last post something you read about Freemasonry?

Much is written and shared on the subject, but not by Freemasons.

Good evening,
Geo


"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
Thomas Jefferson

GeoW, The "Unwoke" ...Let's go Brandon!

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Originally Posted by GeoW
Just curious but you are not a Mason, your father was? And he shared with you the things you claim to be Masonic facts? Or was your last post something you read about Freemasonry?

Much is written and shared on the subject, but not by Freemasons.

Good evening,
Geo

Legit inquiry given the nature of this discussion …..So…..

Masons who read this may choose to comment….. this is just a testimony.


I am not a Mason, my father was. He was devoted to it. Freemasonry is by nature a secret society and it is forbidden to share the secrets. You are correct that there is little written about Freemasonry by Masons…Albert Pike and a few other Masons are exceptions. Much is written by those who abandoned the order.

I attended many Masonic social functions when I was young. I knew many of my father’s Masonic friends, hunted with them etc….. as an aside….everyone of my father’s friends was a fine and upstanding man and citizen. I was told that if something ever happened to him, that the Masons would see to me and the family. I believe that to be true. There is little doubt that the “spirit of fraternity” was well developed in his lodge.

More…. When I was old enough, I attended a number of Demolay meetings and functions. My father was a 33rd degree Mason at that time. He progressed rapidly through the various degrees. I was expected to join and follow the process. I did not.

When Dad saw my reluctance, he began a soft but lengthy recruitment and began to tell me more about the order and answer my questions. He placed limits on many of his answers and often told me that I had to enter the order and if I did, the answers and secrets would be revealed in stages.

He repeatedly told me that I had to ask to join….or had to express interest in the order before I could join. No hard sell allowed and one had to pursue Masonry in some fashion before the initiation could begin.

Having said that, he told me that most who joined Masonry did not progress beyond the early and mid degree stages and that while Masonry was still important to them, they did not fully grasp the importance of it. He would have “acolytes” or new initiates repeatedly come to our residence for private counseling and instruction.

He would tell me that for most, the secrets and deep knowledge of the Masonic Order would remain unknown to those who did not progress to the 31st degree…. It was only then that the true secrets and knowledge of the 33rd Degree was revealed. Here in lies one of the main reasons I did not join… he described a society that kept its true secrets from its own members. This was a problem for me….in simple terms, he could not reveal “what I was signing up for.” It was made clear to me that he expected me to make a commitment….but he would not reveal what I committing to.

Anyway, that’s enough….gotta go…

Edit to add: my Dad was a Shriner as well…. He joined what he referred as the “mounted police” …. A group of thirty or so that would ride their matching motorbikes in various parades….he had great fun but always let me know that while the Shriners were great fun, the Masonic Order was more serious and more important.

Also…. My soft recruitment period was off and on for over 30 years.

Last edited by TF49; 11/27/23.

The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Originally Posted by wabigoon
My Great grandpa's Shriner sward is around here.

Knights of Columbus and Knights Templar have swords and use them in their ceremonies, but Shriners do not.

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