I've been on those airfields where those young men were stationed...
I've been in Nissen Huts where they lived, in the conditions they were in when they were just boarded up in June of 1945.
I've stood in front of the Map of Northern Europe, where the coordinates of their last mission flown, was still there and covered up in 20 years worth of dust, because it was the first time the briefing room had been opened since it was locked up in 1945.
Been in Buildings that still had the pictures hanging on the wall, left there from 1945, in what were squadron HQs and Wing HQs
Seen left over B 17s remains still in the junk yard from WW 2.
also know of the many young men, that were killed trying to meet that 25 mission mark, to qualify to go home instead of risking life and limb every day they had to climb into those bombers and bring the war to Germany. The most damaged B 17 Video filmed ever, and this A/C made it back to England from Berlin.
Knock Out Dropper, 1st B17 to complete 50 missions and 75 Missions in the 8th Air Force. 303rd Bomb Group. RAF Molesworth, Cambridgeshire England. 1943/44
Most of these guys were only 17 to 22 years old.. from Pilots to Gunners, to Bombadiers and Navigators. Over 10,000 of these young men went down over the skies of Europe. In 1943 in the 8th AF, based in England, the life span of the average B 17, from the day it rolled off the factory floor, to the time it went down in combat over occupied Europe was only 7 weeks.
Think of this, when you see video of the Knock Out Dropper, making 50 and 75 missions, before any other B17 in the ETO. Several more from the 303rd BG, made that many missions and were survivors of the first B17s to be sent to the ETO. Not many other groups could say that... most had lost ALL of their original B 17 contingent from when they first arrived there.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
I live near Savannah GA which is where the 8th Air Force was started up. We have the Mighty 8th Air Force Museum here in Pooler, GA right off I-95. I’m a WW2 aviation nut, so I’ll be watching this one for sure. I pray they get the history correct/true!
For liberals and anarchists, power and control is opium, selling envy is the fastest and easiest way to get it. TRR. American conservative. Never trust a white liberal. Malcom X Current NRA member.
From 63 to 66, I lived in the area that all of these bases were in the area of Huntingdon and Cambridge. Of all the books I've read about the 8th Air Force in my life, since the early 60s, this one is definitely the most hardest hitting and difficult to read, as the tales can be down right heart wrenching.
Most recent one I read ( I'm on about page 177 right now ). One of the first half dozen A/C to finish their required 25 missions, one of the Squadron Commanders, needed one more mission to go home. So he rode in the co pilot spot on one of the B 17s. The regular co pilot, manned the left waist gun, to let the commander finish his last mission. The Squadron Commander was set to be married the next day to a Nurse stationed at the base hospital, to celebrate the end of his tour, when 77% of the men were dying before their 25 missions were up.
After hitting the target, on the way home, that squadron was attacked by FW 190s. The B 17 was in a lead position, and the FWs hit it by 6 a/c doing a head on attack. A 20mm cannon shell hit the frame of the cockpit, and decapitated the Squadron Commander. Several other crew men were also killed. The B 17 still managed to make it across the English Channel.
Their hydraulics were shot out, their communication were knocked out, the landing gear did not extend. They had to do a belly landing. His fiancé was waiting on the tarmac for the B 17s return. The wounded pilot decided to belly land the plane on a nearby airfield, so that the nurse would not see her 'husband to be', dead and headless.
The book is pretty gritty. If the movie follows it, it might be a little tough to view it.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Drifting off topic...it's what I do. There is a 3 part fictionalized true story on Prime, called Generation War. Follows the lives of four German citizens through the war on the Eastern Front. Superb cinematography, authentic historical detail. The bad, it's not dubbed in English, ya gotta read subtitles....still...it is the best war movie I have ever seen, bar none. But, like most vets, I'm anti war.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
I've yet to run into a vet thats anti war. Kind of interesting I suppose.
I've run into those that said its horrible and a shame but it has to happen at times. And thats the real truth, much as any of us would prefer not, none of us are anti war.
Originally Posted by Seafire
All I had to see was B 17s.. I'm there....
I've been on those airfields where those young men were stationed...
I've been in Nissen Huts where they lived, in the conditions they were in when they were just boarded up in June of 1945.
I've stood in front of the Map of Northern Europe, where the coordinates of their last mission flown, was still there and covered up in 20 years worth of dust, because it was the first time the briefing room had been opened since it was locked up in 1945.
Been in Buildings that still had the pictures hanging on the wall, left there from 1945, in what were squadron HQs and Wing HQs
Seen left over B 17s remains still in the junk yard from WW 2.
also know of the many young men, that were killed trying to meet that 25 mission mark, to qualify to go home instead of risking life and limb every day they had to climb into those bombers and bring the war to Germany. The most damaged B 17 Video filmed ever, and this A/C made it back to England from Berlin.
Knock Out Dropper, 1st B17 to complete 50 missions and 75 Missions in the 8th Air Force. 303rd Bomb Group. RAF Molesworth, Cambridgeshire England. 1943/44
Most of these guys were only 17 to 22 years old.. from Pilots to Gunners, to Bombadiers and Navigators. Over 10,000 of these young men went down over the skies of Europe. In 1943 in the 8th AF, based in England, the life span of the average B 17, from the day it rolled off the factory floor, to the time it went down in combat over occupied Europe was only 7 weeks.
Think of this, when you see video of the Knock Out Dropper, making 50 and 75 missions, before any other B17 in the ETO. Several more from the 303rd BG, made that many missions and were survivors of the first B17s to be sent to the ETO. Not many other groups could say that... most had lost ALL of their original B 17 contingent from when they first arrived there.
Interesting watching the video that it came apart in flight not far out of Berlin and all 5 live crew members were captured and became POWs..
We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
' From the trailers I've seen, the flying sequences look like a video game IMHO. Same thing as with the ships in Greyhound which was also on Apple TV. I guess the younger generations are just used to seeing video games.
Real airplanes fly and look like real airplanes:
From the Battle of Britain movie (1969). Admittedly, some of the special effects look a little hokey nowadays but the movie was made back in 1969; no CGI back then. But, the flying sequences look great, IMO.
Apple TV+’s highly anticipated limited series “Masters of the Air” takes flight in first teaser trailer Premiering globally Friday, January 26 on Apple TV+, new series from executive producers Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks and Gary Goetzman stars Austin Butler, Callum Turner and more.
Today, Apple TV+ unveiled the first teaser for its highly anticipated, nine-episode limited series, “Masters of the Air,” hailing from executive producers Steven Spielberg, Tom Hanks and Gary Goetzman, and written by John Orloff. Starring a stellar cast led by Academy Award nominee Austin Butler, Callum Turner, Anthony Boyle, Nate Mann, Rafferty Law, Academy Award nominee Barry Keoghan, Josiah Cross, Branden Cook and Ncuti Gatwa, “Masters of the Air'' will premiere globally on Apple TV+ on Friday, January 26, 2024 with the first two episodes, followed by one new episode every Friday through March 15, 2024.
Based on Donald L. Miller’s book of the same name, and scripted by John Orloff, “Masters of the Air” follows the men of the 100th Bomb Group (the “Bloody Hundredth”) as they conduct perilous bombing raids over Nazi Germany and grapple with the frigid conditions, lack of oxygen and sheer terror of combat conducted at 25,000 feet in the air. Portraying the psychological and emotional price paid by these young men as they helped destroy the horror of Hitler’s Third Reich, is at the heart of “Masters of the Air.” Some were shot down and captured; some were wounded or killed. And some were lucky enough to make it home. Regardless of individual fate, a toll was exacted on them all.
“Masters of the Air” is enormous in both scale and scope, and depicts a unique and crucial time in world history. A genuine cinematic achievement, the series shot on locations ranging from the bucolic fields and villages of southeast England, to the harsh deprivations of a German prisoner-of-war camp.
Hailing from Apple Studios, "Masters of the Air" is executive produced by Spielberg through Amblin Television, and Hanks and Goetzman for Playtone. Amblin Television’s Darryl Frank and Justin Falvey co-executive produce alongside Playtone’s Steven Shareshian. In addition to writing, Orloff co-executive produces. Graham Yost also serves as co-executive producer. Anna Boden, Ryan Fleck, Cary Joji [bleep], Dee Rees and Tim Van Patten serve as directors.
Apple TV+ offers premium, compelling drama and comedy series, feature films, groundbreaking documentaries, and kids and family entertainment, and is available to watch across all your favorite screens. After its launch on November 1, 2019, Apple TV+ became the first all-original streaming service to launch around the world, and has premiered more original hits and received more award recognitions faster than any other streaming service in its debut. To date, Apple Original films, documentaries and series have been honored with 392 wins and 1,631 award nominations and counting, including multi-Emmy Award-winning comedy “Ted Lasso” and historic Oscar Best Picture winner “CODA.”
About Apple TV+
Apple TV+ is available on the Apple TV app in over 100 countries and regions, on over 1 billion screens, including iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Mac, popular smart TVs from Samsung, LG, Sony, VIZIO, TCL and others, Roku and Amazon Fire TV devices, Chromecast with Google TV, PlayStation and Xbox gaming consoles, and at tv.apple.com, for $9.99 per month with a seven-day free trial. For a limited time, customers who purchase and activate a new iPhone, iPad, Apple TV or Mac can enjoy three months of Apple TV+ for free.*
For more information, visit apple.com/tvpr and see the full list of supported devices.
The ball turret gunner of a B-17 lives and dies in his own small world. He doesn't enter the airplane through the forward hatch, he enters the ball turret. He has no access to the rest of the plane. Since the ball turret is rather cramped, many gunners did not take their parachutes. If battle damage takes out the landing gear and the plane must belly land he knows what will happen to him. Some gunners shot themselves before the plane skidded in. Everybody knew all this. Every B-17 that took off on a mission had a ball turret gunner.
Ball turret gunners can enter the plane. The turret rotates to expose the entry door and you can climb out of it. This man was a Medal of Honor winning ball turret gunner for saving his plane and most of the crew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maynard_Harrison_Smith
They will have to over represent the Tuskegee Airmen to please their DEI overlords, I predict. They did a good job, and were good pilots, but they have always got credit for things they didn't do. They did lose planes during missions, even though it has been said over and over they never did. I'll be pleasantly surprised if "the message" doesn't get slammed in movie goers faces from time to time....
Apparently, this is not just an individual movie but a "limited series" I assume on the order of Band of Brothers and The Pacific .
Sounds good ... BUT ...unfortunately, it will only be viewable via streaming on APPLE TV+ ...
Which, if they follow their current model, means it will only ever be available on Apple TV. I've been wanting to see Greyhound which came out in 2020 but after four years Apple still hasn't released it to any other service, not even to rent or buy a la carte.
Gunnery, gunnery, gunnery. Hit the target, all else is twaddle!
Our country could never find men to do that again. We are not in good shape week and vulnerable.
Bullshit!
Our country has a load of smart, brave, patriotic men that are cut from the same cloth as our Founders and the bravest of warriors that preceded them! Our country might be weak but that does NOT mean that everyone is weak!
We still have the best and bravest warriors in the world and they continue to bring honor to their fallen comrades!
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
My wife and I spent a fantastic evening at a farmhouse in the Yorkshire countryside for a wedding. I drank all night long with the bride’s grandfather who, once he found out I was American, wanted to buy my Glenmorangie ALL NIGHT LONG. When I found out he flew Lancasters from the left seat and completed ALL + the number of required missions required I bought his Glenmorangie ALL night long. At 1 point I recall he had 10 shots lined up as did I and I called a halt to anymore….we finished those and started up again. I was ~30 years old at the time and he was 80….I was NOT new to the late-night hardcore drinking game and could always hold my own against others but that old guy was incredible! I had so much fun and we made some fantastic memories that night. I’m sure he’s long gone but I think of him often since he sorta completed the picture in my mind. I was raised, schooled, churched, scouts and everything else by men from the Greatest Generation but they were American and that’s the perspective I obviously carried so getting the chance to get to know a British hero from that war was an honor that “bookended” my experience with WWII veterans. He LOVED LOVED LOVED Americans and he couldn’t have been kinder….I’ll forever cherish that memory!
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
Apparently, this is not just an individual movie but a "limited series" I assume on the order of Band of Brothers and The Pacific .
Sounds good ... BUT ...unfortunately, it will only be viewable via streaming on APPLE TV+ ...
Which, if they follow their current model, means it will only ever be available on Apple TV. I've been wanting to see Greyhound which came out in 2020 but after four years Apple still hasn't released it to any other service, not even to rent or buy a la carte.
Looks like Apple TV+ streaming programing is available now on other than Apple branded electronic devices and services on a subscription basis... at a fee, too, of course...
The Apple TV app is already on your favorite Apple devices, as well as streaming platforms, popular smart TVs, gaming consoles, and AirPlay‑enabled devices. Just open the app to start watching. Apple TV iPhone iPad Mac AirPlay
See it on your big screen.
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Not that normal people care anymore, but the 2024 Oscar nominations are out, and it looks like a good night for Christopher Nolan’s Oppenheimer.
Out of 23 possible categories, Nolan’s critical and financial blockbuster secured 13 nominations, including Best Picture, Actor, Supporting Actor, Supporting Actress, Adapted Screenplay, Director, Editing, Score, and Production Design.
If they are concentrating on the Eighth AF, they may not have any of the Tuskegee Airmen. My dad flew with the 843 Heavy Bombardment, starting out of Africa and moving into Italy as it was freed. His last station was Sterparone, with his group on one side of the PSP, and the Tuskegee folks on the other as I remember him saying. The 15th Air Force required count was 50 missions before you went home, not 25.. I do remember one afternoon at an airshow at Miramar, with dad and one of the Tuskegee airmen spending an hour just talking between themselves. They were nothing but heroes to me and i could only stand there in awe listening to them. It was the only time I heard my dad ever open up about his ime in the war.
If they are concentrating on the Eighth AF, they may not have any of the Tuskegee Airmen. My dad flew with the 843 Heavy Bombardment, starting out of Africa and moving into Italy as it was freed. His last station was Sterparone, with his group on one side of the PSP, and the Tuskegee folks on the other as I remember him saying. The 15th Air Force required count was 50 missions before you went home, not 25.. I do remember one afternoon at an airshow at Miramar, with dad and one of the Tuskegee airmen spending an hour just talking between themselves. They were nothing but heroes to me and i could only stand there in awe listening to them. It was the only time I heard my dad ever open up about his ime in the war.
My father-in-law was a member of the "Forgotten Fifteenth". Towards the end of the war so many airmen were killed that replacements were too few and far between that the mission count was raised from 25 to 50. Part of the reasoning was that the Nazi's were not able to put up as many fighters against the Allies by late in the war. If a mission exceeded a certain amount of time in the air, then it was called a double mission. My father-in-law flew 32 times and was credited with 51 missions. He made several raids on the Ploesti oil fields.
Not that normal people care anymore, but the 2024 Oscar nominations are out, and it looks like a good night for Christopher Nolan’s Oppenheimer. ...<snip>...
Speaking of the Oppenheimer movie, years ago I met a man by the name of Tom Ferebee. I shook his hand and we chatted briefly. He signed a photo for me. He seemed like a very nice and humble man. I also got to visit with his wife, Mary Ann, for a few minutes. She was charming and very personable. Now, you may be wondering, "Who the heck is Tom Ferebee?" Well...
Thomas Ferebee "Thomas Wilson Ferebee (November 9, 1918 – March 16, 2000) was the bombardier aboard the B-29 Superfortress, Enola Gay, which dropped the atomic bomb "Little Boy" on Hiroshima in 1945." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Ferebee
Cheers! Bob F.
"Whose bright idea was it to put every idiot in the world in touch with every other idiot? It's working!" -- P. J. O'Rourke
My uncle was a waste Gunner on a B-17 flying out of UK on missions to German targets in Europe. He caught a round from a Messerschmit 109 in his back. Ugly ass scar. Went all across his upper back. He would joke about it with my Dad. Told him he knew when it was gonna rain.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
From what I gathered the odds won’t good in those things
First it was required to complete 25 missions to be able to go home... 77% of the men who served over there in late 42 and early to mid 43, didn't complete their 25 missions to go home.... they were either killed in the air, shot down over occupied Europe or just lost it from stress and were grounded.
The base I went to school on, RAf Molesworth was home to the 303rd BG. Four of the original B 17s made it to 25 missions and actually thru 50 and 75 missions before being sent home to do War Bond Tours, with their crews. Most other groups weren't so lucky. ALL of their crews who were first sent over in late 42, DIDN'T finish their tours, and ALL were either killed or went down over occupied Europe. Each of the bases mentioned in the Movie or in the Book, were within a 15 to 20 mile radius of Huntingdon. My dad was stationed at RAF Alconbury, just outside of Huntingdon. Many of the bases were still there, held in reserve for NATO. Some like RAF Grafton Underwood and RAF Kimbolton, were gone and torn down in 1963 when we got to England in mid 1963. The war had been over for only 18 years.
Out of towns in the countryside, many groves of trees, you could find pillboxes left over from the war, built during the Battle of Britain, in case the Nazis had invaded England in 1940. The were still finding munitions of bombs that had been dropped in 1940 that had never exploded., ALL over Southern England.
There were many people in the town I lived in off base ( housing was a bear to find), that had lived there during the WAR. There were plenty of WW 1 veterans also all over the neighborhoods. Most of them really liked knowing Americans and having them as friends. A lot of men in their 40s at that time, had been in the RAF and were shot down over occupied Europe, and spent the war in PoW camps.. others I knew were captured at Dunkirk and survived. We could get them to talk about their experiences during WW2, they enjoyed relating it to kids who were interested.
The war was far removed for American kids. NOT so for English kids. There parents and grandparents had lived thru it. There was plenty of remains all over England left over from the war. We had several factories in Eynesbury were we lived that had been bombed and destroyed during the Battle of Britain by the Luftwaffe. They were never rebuilt and the site still had the brick and stones they were made from, still stacked up after being cleaned up, but left on the property.
Since we lived off base, by law, my youngest brother had to go to the local English Elementary School. They start at 4 years old. The property was all asphalt and brick walls. The remainder of the paint put on the walls that were meant to turn color if the Germans had dropped Gas Bombs to kill the population. The walls from 63 to 66 were still painted from the war...to detect gas.
Everywhere we lived in the shadows of what had happened in England during WW 2. There were still many based left over from WW 2, all just locked up and that's it.. the Nissen Huts, Hangers, Runways, Hard Stands etc were still all there. Molesworth still had the remains of the B17 Junkyard where they would pull parts off of scrapped bombers. There were quite a few still out there in the early to mid 60s, left over from the war 20 years earlier.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
If they are concentrating on the Eighth AF, they may not have any of the Tuskegee Airmen. My dad flew with the 843 Heavy Bombardment, starting out of Africa and moving into Italy as it was freed. His last station was Sterparone, with his group on one side of the PSP, and the Tuskegee folks on the other as I remember him saying. The 15th Air Force required count was 50 missions before you went home, not 25.. I do remember one afternoon at an airshow at Miramar, with dad and one of the Tuskegee airmen spending an hour just talking between themselves. They were nothing but heroes to me and i could only stand there in awe listening to them. It was the only time I heard my dad ever open up about his ime in the war.
as they got more B 17 and B 24s over in Europe, in late 1942, missions were safer, so it was changed from 25 missions to go home, to 50. Losses were still high tho. The 15th and 12th Air Forces operated out of the Mediterranean theatre. So did the 9th, but it was rotated back to England, for the Normandy invasion. The 9th was a Tactical AF where the 8th and 15th were Strategic AFs. Strategic, think Bombers. Tactical, think 2 engine bombers (B 25s and B 26s), and fighter bombers... P 47s. Stategic Bombers, 4 engined bombers.. B 17 & B 24s, and fighter escort P 51s, and night fighters P 61s and P70s, and American flown RAF Mosquitoes.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Ball turret gunners can enter the plane. The turret rotates to expose the entry door and you can climb out of it. This man was a Medal of Honor winning ball turret gunner for saving his plane and most of the crew. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maynard_Harrison_Smith
I can't even imagine hanging underneath a bomber in a little metal and plexiglass ball, 30,000 feet up looking down. The ball turret and tail gunners were isolated from the the rest of the crew aside from the intercoms. Waiting in lonely dread for the "Bandits" call to come loudly into their headphones, straining to see where it's coming from. Parts of the turrets had some armor. The waist gunners had nothing but thin aluminum sheeting between them and the sky or a bullet. Damn, I'd rather nave been a ground slogger.
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