I'm probably not going to explain this right, but a heart shot will do that. Heart sits low and the angle and direction can change things, but most times when you take out the heart it's not the same as center punching the lungs. The lungs are still intact and working, providing oxygenated blood to the muscles. I'm sure that's not a medically accurate way of describing it, but lungs fully taken out and not working will dispatch a deer much quicker than a low heart shot.
One is alone in a land so vast, there is only the mountains, the wind, and the eyes of God.
I’ve seen them flop DRT with a “broken heart”…I’ve also had em run with one. No rhyme or reason, other than some of them just don’t know they’re dead until they fall. Not an expert(or deer doctor) but most lung shots lead to deer “drowning” from their own blood. Adrenaline seems to work against a lung shot deer, but seems to help a heart shot deer. Of course every deer/shot is somewhat different to a degree. Just my opinion. 😎
Doc, I probably shouldn't of said will, but can. I've had heart shot deer not make it far at all but other than bad hit deer, the dead runners here and there over the yrs have all been heart shots. Not hard to follow the blood trail but seemed like there was no stopping until they were drained.
One is alone in a land so vast, there is only the mountains, the wind, and the eyes of God.
I'm probably not going to explain this right, but a heart shot will do that. Heart sits low and the angle and direction can change things, but most times when you take out the heart it's not the same as center punching the lungs. The lungs are still intact and working, providing oxygenated blood to the muscles. I'm sure that's not a medically accurate way of describing it, but lungs fully taken out and not working will dispatch a deer much quicker than a low heart shot.
I once watched a doe run 250 yards across a pasture after I punched her broadside through both lungs from 30 yards with a 12 gauge Foster slug.
Sometimes they just don't fall like we think they should, regardless of what they're hit with or where they're hit, unless it's a CNS shot. Shot a big bodied 9 pointer on Thanksgiving evening, 308, 150 Hornady (3031 bullet). Exactly 99 yards, since he was standing 1 yard directly in front of my 100 yard target stand.. dead broadside, center punched both shoulders. Two "pushes" with his hind legs, went about 20 feet. About what I'd expect with that shot placement. Same location, yesterday morning, granddaughter double lunged a 90 pound doe. Same distance, same rifle and load. This one ran...and ran...almost 200 yards, before piling up. An inch back from the shoulder "crease", about a third of the body height from the bottom, in and out. Classic double lung shot. Biggest piece of lung left when we gutted was about the size of a black walnut, but still made it that far. Sometimes the will to live is amazing.
"...and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36
Just a part of deer hunting They don't think and reason like humans. I've bow killed deer through and through that just flinched and continued their leisurely walking and sniffing and grazing while pouring blood, then just toppled over after the brain couldn't make everything work. And like others, I've shot deer in and out that turned and tried to flee. Some just made a couple of feet, some several yards. Did it with a body cavity full of red goo.
JMHO- I think if they're already working on an adrenaline shot, they can make those legs work for a while and flee. I guess it's good that ropes are relatively inexpensive these days
The shoulder shot is the down now. Most of what I hunt is mountainside and usually my hike in is uphill. I'm happy to lung shoot and let them run downhill...in the few spots I walk around or down the mountain I'm shooting shoulders.
I have been amazed at how similarly placed shots heart/lung shots have resulted in different distances traveled.
I've had lung shots run and get a ways off before dying, but I honestly can't say I've had one get any considerable distance when the lungs were destroyed. Not just hit in the lungs but uber trauma. But I know deer react differently and you can never say never. I've been along on a couple 1 lunger's that we almost didn't find them. Went a heck of a ways.
One is alone in a land so vast, there is only the mountains, the wind, and the eyes of God.
Shot a doe yesterday right before dark with a Speer 165 gn SBT out of a 30-06. In the shoulder muscle clipped the heart and out the back of the ribs on the back side. She took off like the devil was after her. She was in a field that was smooth. Ran 100 yards and she crashed as soon as she got in the woods and hit uneven ground. Most does go down shot through the ribs with an 06. You just never know. After 25 yards she was spraying blood all over.
A similar thing happened to my uncle many years ago. He followed a trail of, blood, pieces of lung for a pretty long time……not sure exactly how far, seems it was around 400 yards or so. Had the deer not tried to cross a small pond…..it may still be running! 🙂 memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
About 10 years ago I shot a doe with my muzzleloader. It was about an 80 yard shot. After 20 minutes I pick up the trail and a great blood trail straight down the hill. I was surprised when she jumped up and took off. I kept a slow steady push. She jumped up a couple more times before expiring, I could never get another shot in the thick stuff. Altogether 35 minutes from shot to death, and at least a couple hundred yards. When I feild dressed her, it was clean heart shot and the heart was shredded. I don't know if it came apart at the time of the shot, or pulled itself apart as she exterted herself running away.
A few years after that I shot a doe through the heart with a bow. I jumped her 30 minutes later while tracking. Came back several hours later and she was freshly dead. Low in the heart but a heart shot.
I think sometimes it’s adrenaline and the instinct to get back to cover where they feel safe. The farthest I’ve had a double lung shot deer run was double lung and top/back part of the heart shot with an arrow. He ran about 100 yards through open woods on a straight course dead run but dropped within 6’ of getting back into the cedar swamp and security cover that he had come from.
He seemed hell bent on getting back into cover but as soon as he got there he dropped mid stride.
A heart shot is a heart/lung shot. A lung shot is just that. If the heart is circulating blood there is O2 at the cellular level. If the heart is taken the cells must survive on present O2. If the lungs only are taken there is a residual oxygenated blood supply available to be circulated, though limited.
The net projected effect is a heart/lung shot animal will travel further than a lung only shot animal. That’s also my personal experience with exceptions. And it is a redneck version of oxygenation any pulmonologist here is welcome to critique.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
Try a high shoulder shot and they just go down; they can't run. You have to try it and you will see. DRT is the normal result.
Or just a high lung shot at the rear of the shoulder. Bangs the spinal cord, most likely damages the dorsal aorta, and they just can’t recover before deoxygenation shuts down the brain. Drop at the shot. Wife shot a 185# buck this morning right there with a 7/08 120 BT over 40gr RL15. Not a hot rod at all.
Colossians 3:17 (New King James Version) "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him."
I shot a big buck last Saturday at 35 yards. Slightly quartering away, 160 gr. Nosler Partition from a 7x57R. Took out the top 1/3 of his heart. He ran about 65 yards…
I think the fastest way to kill them outside of a CNS shot is keeping it below the equator, in front of the diaphragm and leaving the heart intact. That gives the best blood trails as the pump works against them.
One thing I’ve noticed with heart shots is that very often the blood trail is chunky or gritty, for lack of a better term. Not congealed blood, but solid. Almost like bloody relish or sawdust…I don’t know if that’s because the damaged heart comes out with the blood or if the heart releases a protein that coagulates. But I’ve seen multiple heart shot deer have that.
Hunting in north AL yesterday evening, just trying to fill the freezer. Shot a doe standing broadside at 110 yds. 7X57 with 140 gr Sierra Pro Hunter (MV 2840 fps). Expected her to drop dead. She ran.
I ran out of daylight searching for her and had to return later with help and flashlights.
Found her almost 200 yds from where she'd stood. Had hit her exactly where I was aiming. Field dressing revealed the top third of the heart and both lungs were trashed. Hard to believe she'd made it that far with that injury.
It happens, though. I don't consider that shot a screw up.
"Simply put if a deer runs off after I shoot, I screwed the shot up" - could not disagree more! I shoot for the boiler room (heart/lungs), my experience most deer shot here run 50-75 yards, they are dead, just don't know it yet. My objective is for a clean, humane kill with no wasted meat if it can be avoided, in interest in blowing out the shoulder. Most deer shot in chest cavity are going to run a bit but that's ok.
i used to shoot deer in the shoulder or behind the shoulder about 1/3 of the way up. i killed them DRT and after they ran (15 to 25 yards is average). i had one doe that managed to go 300+ yards after the shot, it was behind the shoulder, 1/3 of the way up. i was using a 243 Winchester and 85gr Barnes X-bullet and i think IMR4831. the doe was 35ish yards away and the shot was right on the money, but she ran. there was little to no blood to track her, a drop or two every 40 - 50 yards. it snowed 2 or 3" so tracking was easy. the way she ran tho, was a mix of mountain laurel, huge spruce trees and jagged green vines. i found her and dressed her. the bullet was a failure, it never opened up, just a pin hole sized side thru the doe. it was the last time i shot a 243.
my son was using 7x57 and 139gr Hornady FN with IMR3031 and he shot doe at 25ish yards. it was a bad shot, instead of behind the shoulder, it was shot 1/2 way up in the bottom part of the lungs, diaphragm and liver. the doe then ran into the brush. there was blood galore, so i tracked it and found it there dead. 125ish yards was its last run.
normally i shoot behind the shoulder and some are DRT and some go, but i always find them.
"Russia sucks." ---- Me, US Army (retired) 12B & 51B
Russian Admiral said, after the Moskva sank, "we have the world's worst navy but we aren't as bad as our army".
Unless legs or spine are taken out, an animal will run until the brain is no longer receiving blood. It could be a few seconds or ten seconds. Every animal uses those seconds differently. Hit only one lung and they can go a far piece.
If the animal goes more than 100yards, then I consider I screwed the shot up.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Shot a fat doe in October, 60 yds., was with a buck. 7-08 120 Gr TTSX. Hit her in the shoulder, she just stood there for 7-8 seconds and then keeled over. Buck tried to wake her up, was not happy with her. Dead broadside shoulder shot, exited out the middle of her body, a funky journey. Zero steps
Our problem with tracking a hit Critter is this whole place is sugar sand with heavy brush, and it has snowed here twice in the last 125 years and the snow was gone by 10:00 am, that's why we use tracking dogs and favor DRT. Rio7
Our problem with tracking a hit Critter is this whole place is sugar sand with heavy brush, and it has snowed here twice in the last 125 years and the snow was gone by 10:00 am, that's why we use tracking dogs and favor DRT. Rio7
And....anything off the senderos in that brush will either stick you, scratch you or even bite you.
I have shot a couple in the heart with some big caliber guns. 450 Marlin and 45-70. Both loaded with top end charges under 300 JHP. Neither one drops them where they stand if you don't shoot through both lungs. The double lung shot is always the best. But in my case I had to shoot low as that was the only shot presented. I have had similiar experiences with archery. Lung shots result in much shorter travel after the hit. The heart shot stops blood flow so until all of the oxygen in their blood stream is depleated and they lose consciousness, they can run. The lungs keep working until the very end. The double lung shot created more of a hydo-shock which crushes the lungs and imparts a great shock to the nervous system. No blood circulation so their system shuts down sooner if not immediately due to the damage. A high speed bullet causes two types of damage. There is the permanent damage done by the patch of the bullet. There is also the temporary "cavity" damage done by the effect of that high speed bullet hitting the soft body tissue which is mosty water. Think of it as a balloon suddenly inflated inside of the ribcage. The pressure forces the lungs to compress and collapse, destroying their function.
In case that was too much info... double lung shot is the best.
Our problem with tracking a hit Critter is this whole place is sugar sand with heavy brush, and it has snowed here twice in the last 125 years and the snow was gone by 10:00 am, that's why we use tracking dogs and favor DRT. Rio7
I hunted the King a few years ago…I don’t know if you agree with my experience, as I have only a handful of deer and about 12 pigs in it, but that sugar sand does not make for easy blood trailing. I would have thought white, fluffy sand would be easy. I left feeling very thankful for the ground where I typically hunt.
On a run, the deer's legs and movement are somewhat circulating the blood after the heart is shot. Lungs are still working. They can cover lots of ground in 10-20 seconds
Our east gate is about 15 miles West of the Encino Gate of the King Ranch, pretty much the same here ocean bottom sand, only rocks on this ranch were hauled in to build with it's not like tracking in snow. Rio7
A few years after that I shot a doe through the heart with a bow. I jumped her 30 minutes later while tracking. Came back several hours later and she was freshly dead. Low in the heart but a heart shot.
Yes thick dense muscle, which is why above the heart in a way is better, opens up those arteries which the still functioning heart pumps all the blood out of.
Myself, I've moved my bullet placement up. I don't like losing the meat, but while I'm a VERY good tracker all things considered, I'm colorblind and can't blood track unless it's ropes of blood. Try as I might, I can't. Even in snow, unless the snow is deep, I can't tell blood drops from mud drops. My nephew shot a doe last week, and while we could see it dead 50-60 yards away, for practice we "tracked" it. He was picking up leaves with blood drops and showing them to me, asking if I could see them. I can see the drop (when he showed them to me), but I'd never pick it out on the leaf floor of the forest. I was pointing out the disturbed leaves way ahead of him, which way and where the deer had gone, which was lost on him, be spotted all the blood, little as there was, of which I saw none.
I want to create a large sucking chest wound and anything forward of the diaphragm with a good size exit wound should do that. If the animal can't pull a vacuum in their chest cavity (pneumothorax) they can't breathe and will die from asphyxiation. Just dying from blood loss alone (exsanguination) would take way longer. Too hard a bullet on too small an animal doesn't create a large enough sucking chest wound entry or exit wound to cause as rapid a death as a softer bullet IMO.
A couple years back, I shot a deer in the neck and broke it's neck. I went to it right away and it was still kicking it's back legs though it was clinically dead. I asked a doctor how that could happen and she said that a body doesn't die all at the same time. Interesting.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
Shot one w a bow several years back at 14 yards, high entrance on ribcage as I was 15 feet up in a tree stand. Deer flinched and started walking away. As he got around 30 yards walking straight away from me I could see blood pouring out of his chest. He stopped, wagged his tail and tipped over.
Shot a 200 lb plus buck in Missouri Nov 16th at 20 yards w a 308. 150 Accubond at 2900 FPS. Again, 15 feet in the air in tree stand. High in onside shoulder, exited lower 3rd of offside shoulder. Deer ran 100 yards down hill and finally cartwheeled ass over head.
I quit trying to shoot deer in the heart years ago. Shot a buck in the heart w an 06 and 165 Hornady Interlock BTSP. He was about 120 yards. I looked for blood for 30 yards and never found a drop. About that time my brother walks up on me and says " I know ya hit him I heard it." The deer went into a cedar thicket on side of a ridge he'd come out of after I shot him. We got on a trail through the thicket and about 15 yards in there was blood everywhere. Then no blood, then blood everywhere, then no blood. Deer ended up running 400 yards through the cedars, nearly to the top of the ridge. Stayed on the blood and we found him about 50 yards from where he was standing when I shot him at the bottom of the ridge.
Your mind is your primary weapon. Never let it get rusty.
On the way to work one morning several year ago, I was dong 55 when’s buck came out of know where and collided with the drivers door of my 2010 Tundra. The buck spun back taking out the passenger door, damaging the rear quarter panel, and took out the rear tire. He ran off like nothing happened. 7K worth of damage. His will to live was greater.
I shot one this morning through both shoulders with a 300 Weatherby. He ran off and didn't bleed a drop till he fell. 2" exit and I didn't find any blood or hair where he was standing when I shot. Heart was cut loose at the top. He went 70 yards uphill.
I shot a doe a few years ago at about 20 yards with the .444 Marlin, didn't notice the sapling just in front of her chest, maybe an 1" or so in diameter. Bullet hit the sapling before the deer and must have expanded and carried some of the tree with it as it punched a 2" hole clean through her heart/lung area completely obliterating everything in her chest, you could literally see right through her. She still ran 30 yards. There was so much blood when my son viewed the scene he asked me how many did I shoot.
I recently just read a study that was done on this very subject. I t come to the conclusion that a heart shot deer can live up to 15 seconds after being hit. A deer could cover some ground in that time. Sorry i can't for the life of me remember where i read this.
Heart still pumping out entry and exit holes makes blood trails. I prefer to see them drop at the shot but, I’m thankful my dad taught me to track when I was little. F01
I recently just read a study that was done on this very subject. I t come to the conclusion that a heart shot deer can live up to 15 seconds after being hit. A deer could cover some ground in that time. Sorry i can't for the life of me remember where i read this.
Yes, I've heard something similar, such that a buck shot only in the heart might cover up to 300 yards before going down.
Single lung? The deer may actually survive.
Double lung or double lung plus heart is preferable. I prefer double lung plus top of the heart.
I recently just read a study that was done on this very subject. I t come to the conclusion that a heart shot deer can live up to 15 seconds after being hit. A deer could cover some ground in that time. Sorry i can't for the life of me remember where i read this.
Yes, I've heard something similar, such that a buck shot only in the heart might cover up to 300 yards before going down.
Single lung? The deer may actually survive.
Double lung or double lung plus heart is preferable. I prefer double lung plus top of the heart.
I'd heard 13 seconds at some point in the past...can't remember where. Most of what I hunt is wooded mountainside land...sometimes I'll hunt ag fields in the bottom. At any rate, lung or heart shot deer can cover A LOT of ground running downhill.
I take advantage of that when I've hiked in going up (most of the time). If I hike in going down or around, I really want to take out the front axle.
I videoed an open country Texas deer once that my dad shot double-lungs with a 130NBT from a .270Win. It was stumbling at 20 seconds or so and finally flopped down for good at close to 30 seconds. Seemed like a rather long time.
I double-lunged a buck last week with a 7mm-08 139 Interlock and he took off through the dry leaves. He crashed after maybe 8-10 seconds and kicked once. Covered about 50 yards in open hardwood timber.
I killed a doe this year with a 30-06 and 180 grain bullet. She was 50ish yards away broadside and standing still when I shot. At the shot, she shuddered a little bit and ran 40 or so yards. Stood there a bit and then ran up to me but behind a blowdown. Then ran past me for about 30 yards before doing a complete summersault. I could see blood blowing out her side. She was hit right behind the crease of the shoulder and was double lunged.
I've always heard it takes about 9 seconds for the brain to stop. Between that and adrenaline, unless you take their wheels out from under them they are gonna move until then. I imagine some pass throughs account for some of it being not absorbing all that bullets energy.
This one ran about 60 yards with a 130nbt out of my 270. She was facing me dead on. She backflipped, hit the ground hard, picked herself up and ran. Heart is obliterated.
I've always heard it takes about 9 seconds for the brain to stop. Between that and adrenaline, unless you take their wheels out from under them they are gonna move until then. I imagine some pass throughs account for some of it being not absorbing all that bullets energy.
This one ran about 60 yards with a 130nbt out of my 270. She was facing me dead on. She backflipped, hit the ground hard, picked herself up and ran. Heart is obliterated.
Shot a deer this yr with a 35 Remington 180 Speer FP and was hit about perfect for me on entry, tight right behind the shoulder, exit was front portion of off shoulder. Took out the heart, went 10 ft.
Shot 1 later with a 30-06 150 grain and was hit exactly the same, just reversed. Entry was front portion of near shoulder, exited tight behind off shoulder. Took out the top half of the heart. That deer ran 80-100 yards until it piled up on the run.
There are never absolutes with deer, but with 4 deer now in the last several yrs that larger frontal area of the FP's and soft round noses used in 35 Remington really seems to knock out their motor skills. The deer that made it the farthest made it 60 yds and momentum only kept it on it's feet the last 20. Stumbled horribly the last 20 with no major bones hit.
Maybe it's just coincidence but so far within it's range out to 100 yds or so, that FP or RN 35 caliber is stopping them from truckin.
One is alone in a land so vast, there is only the mountains, the wind, and the eyes of God.
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