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Joined: Oct 2006
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OP
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Merry Christmas Everyone!
I just recently posted this question on the Hunting Rifle forum, then discovered this forum and believe it to be a better venue for my questions. Y'all help me if you can!
My precious little wife surprised me with a Cape Gun last night for my Christmas. Beautiful little 16g x 9.3X72r. Fold down express sights. All metal surfaces are Heavily engraved. The wood has knockout figuring. Very Fine checkering. It's hammerless. On the Left barrel "Ed Kettner" is stamped. On the Right, "Coin Suhl", I think. I'd love to know something about this Cape gun. It has a 4 digit serial number. Overall, it appears to be a custom rifle/shotgun combo. I don't know anything about Cape guns or Ed Kettner for that matter. I'm gonna take a SWAG and say he is/was a German or Austrian gunmaker? I just don't know where to look. Anyone with any ideas?
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Joined: Oct 2002
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2002
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Don't know but that is one heck of a gift! Would love to see pics sometime.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2004
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Merry Christmas Everyone!
I just recently posted this question on the Hunting Rifle forum, then discovered this forum and believe it to be a better venue for my questions. Y'all help me if you can!
My precious little wife surprised me with a Cape Gun last night for my Christmas. Beautiful little 16g x 9.3X72r. Fold down express sights. All metal surfaces are Heavily engraved. The wood has knockout figuring. Very Fine checkering. It's hammerless. On the Left barrel "Ed Kettner" is stamped. On the Right, "Coin Suhl", I think. I'd love to know something about this Cape gun. It has a 4 digit serial number. Overall, it appears to be a custom rifle/shotgun combo. I don't know anything about Cape guns or Ed Kettner for that matter. I'm gonna take a SWAG and say he is/was a German or Austrian gunmaker? I just don't know where to look. Anyone with any ideas? Your best bet as to where to get answers, if not on Hunting Rifles, will be in the Gunwriters section. BTW - that's a helluva gift! Congratulations!
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 8,704
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2001
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Very very cool gift! You are about to get acquainted with Buffalo Arms ( www.buffaloarms.com) and Huntington's  . Brass, dies and suchlike are still available for the 9.3x72R (not to be confused with the more poweful 9.3x74) cartridge. You will want to have the 16 ga chamber checked for length, as many of these old guns are chambered for a 2.5" shell, or other odd length. Proper shotshells are also available, though -- a friend of mine has an English 12 ga shotgun with 2" chambers -- and he finds shells for it. So you have a beauty that you can hunt with. Cape guns were made for the Africa trade, by and large, though they have great utility anywhere a mixed bag of game is available. Please post pictures . DN
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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A quick Google shows that Eduard Kettner made drillings and other firearms in Coln, or Koln -- Cologne, to us English-speakers -- in the late 1800's/early 1900's. Apparently quite nice ones, too . So I think your "Coin" is probably "Coln". Extraordinary gift, for certain. DN
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Offerings at Buffalo Arms... 9.3X72R Cases* Item #: 9.3X72R Your Price: $3.38 / Each ----------------------------------------------------------------- #30 RCBS Shell Holder Item #: RCB9230 Your Price: $6.39 / Each ----------------------------------------------------------------- 9.3X72R Snap Caps Item #: SC12280 Your Price: $11.59 / PAIR ----------------------------------------------------------------- .366" 193 Grn. FN SP Jckted Bulletsf/9.3x72R Item #: BAC366193 Your Price: $29.00 / Box of 50 ----------------------------------------------------------------- 9.3x72R Die Set, 4d Item #: 4D9.3X72R Your Price: $72.55 / Each ----------------------------------------------------------------- 9.3x72R Sellier & Bellot Ammunition 193 Grn. FNSP Item #: AMO93721 Your Price: $74.00 / Box of 20 Lots of good stuff for birthday presents . DN
"The more you run over a dead cat, the flatter it gets."
"If you're asking me something technical, you may be looking for My Other Brother Darrell."
"It ain't foot-pounds that kills stuff -- it's broken body parts."
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 142
Campfire Member
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OP
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 142 |
Thanks everybody!
There is a lot of knowledge out there. I'm just glad I know where to go to tap 99% of it! :))
I'll be trying to post pictures sometime tomorrow evening.
I hope everyone has a Happy and Blessed New Year!
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,177 Likes: 20
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,177 Likes: 20 |
Congratulations on a fine old hunting gun!
Along with the chamber length of the shotgun chamber, I would also check bore diameter. My wife bought a fine old O/U German combination gun in 16/9.3x72R a couple of years ago, and a half box of RWS ammo was part of the deal, the owner having fired half the box.
Turned out the bore actually was a perfect match for .35-caliber American bullets, so I ended up loading 180-grain Nosler Partitions designed for the various .357 handgun rounds. They work perfectly!
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 142
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OP
Campfire Member
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Apparently the shop owner pulled this rifle out his safe along with 2 full boxes of Dynamit Nobel 193gr ammo, minus 3 shells. he told her that was the only times he had shot it and it grouped the three rounds in 1-1/2 inches at 110 yards.
I'm taking it to my regular gunsmith tomorrow and let him mic it for me and verify everything is in working order.
Thanks for the info!
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 142
Campfire Member
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OP
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So you have a beauty that you can hunt with. Cape guns were made for the Africa trade, by and large, though they have great utility anywhere a mixed bag of game is available.
Please post pictures .
Here they are. Hope y'all like them! I had it checked out today and 2-3/4" shells work fine. Apparently re-bored for such. I've gotta say, "Mama done good". That's my girl!  ![[Linked Image]](http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/Douglash_2006/100_3695.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/Douglash_2006/100_3686.jpg) ![[Linked Image]](http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q162/Douglash_2006/100_3693.jpg)
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 14,104
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2005
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What a nice old firearm! Momma done good indeed!
Ben
Some days it takes most of the day for me to do practically nothing...
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,030
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Lt,
First off, nice gun, and great wife!
Not to pick nits, but when you say 2-3/4" shells "work fine", did you have the actual chamber length measured, or is it just that 2-3/4" shells will chamber?
Jeff
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 27,692 |
Great Old Rifle 
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
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Joined: Jun 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Nice old gun!
Just 2 suggestions:
1) as Jeff mentioned, please get the chamber properly checked. Many of the German guns of this era had shorter chambers. Today's normal ammo will chamber, and you can get away with shooting a few (maybe!), but if the crimp can't completely unfold you can be playing with fire and the chamber will burst.
2) if you didn't know, RWS still loads this round (and I've seen them for sale here in Sweden)
John
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2007
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Lt,
First off, nice gun, and great wife!
Not to pick nits, but when you say 2-3/4" shells "work fine", did you have the actual chamber length measured, or is it just that 2-3/4" shells will chamber?
Jeff My thoughts exactly. A 2 3/4" shell will drop right into a 2 1/2" chamber because it's not 2 3/4" til after it's been fired. I wonder if this gun was made by Greener. Or was thee side safety common on Euro made guns? Any chance of a close up of the barrel/action flats? SOS
There is nothing made by man,
which cannot be broken by woman.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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Campfire Member
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OP
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Not to pick nits, but when you say 2-3/4" shells "work fine", did you have the actual chamber length measured, or is it just that 2-3/4" shells will chamber?
Thanks guys! Yes, I had it checked yesterday by my gunsmith. He measured everything and verified that it has been set up to shoot 2-3/4" shells. I was worried about that more than anything. Verifying chamber lengths like that, I trust only to a true gunsmith. My grandpaw used to say, "That's the difference in someone that pretty much knows what they are doing, and someone that knows "exactly" what they are doing." I've always trusted his judgement and tried to let his knowledge soak in. I'll see what I can do about an additional pic of the barrel/action/flats.
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Joined: Oct 2006
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The Left barrel has "Ed Kettner" stamped on it.
I think I forgot to mention that.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Lt,
Great! The next time you break down the gun, if you will take some photos of the proof marks stamped on the flats of the barrels, we can try to determine if it was originally chambered for 65mm shotshells, and later lengthened to 70mm. We could also probably determine when the gun was proofed. Neat gun!
Jeff
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Campfire Tracker
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