I will add a few points to my earlier post about you not knowing what you're talking about concerning Montana grizzlies:
As noted the vast majority that have been weighed in recent years have been trapped and tranquilized. This is partly because the last Montana hunting season took place in the early 1990s, and since then the population has not only increased but expanded to over half the state. Consequently the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks is constantly monitoring bears, primarily to prevent bear/human conflicts--but also get a better handle on numbers, which is pertinent to reopening a hunting season.
I have known two of those FWP grizzly biologists, including the guy who headed the team which trapped and weighed the spring bear that bottomed out the portable 800-pound scale they used. His team primarily used horses in the backcountry in those days, and baited snares to catch bears.
But today more and more bears are showing up not just on ranches to eat livestock, but even in towns to raid garbage containers, partly because there isn't any hunting season. Unless they really become pests they're tolerated--though some are moved, usually in "culvert traps," a section of steel culvert mounted on a trailer, but sometimes by helicopter. But sometimes they just keep coming back, so are "euthanized," either by shooting, or injection after they're trapped.
So no, they're not killed by hunting in remote areas far from a suitable scale. Instead the scale is either in the hands of the biologists, or in a nearby town after a bear is culvert-trapped--which also makes it easy to transport the bear to a certified scale.
The grizzly biologist I mentioned earlier (who has since retired) was the one who weighed the bear that bottomed out the 800-pound scale, which indicated they needed larger-capacity scales. Incidentally, that bear had never been trapped by biologists before, probably because he was born before the last hunting seasons ended and had learned to avoid people.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
I will add a few points to my earlier post about you not knowing what you're talking about concerning Montana grizzlies:
As noted the vast majority that have been weighed in recent years have been trapped and tranquilized. This is partly because the last Montana hunting season took place in the early 1990s, and since then the population has not only increased but expanded to over half the state. Consequently the Montana Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks is constantly monitoring bears, primarily to prevent bear/human conflicts--but also get a better handle on numbers, which is pertinent to reopening a hunting season.
I have known two of those FWP grizzly biologists, including the guy who headed the team which trapped and weighed the spring bear that bottomed out the portable 800-pound scale they used. His team primarily used horses in the backcountry in those days, and baited snares to catch bears.
But today more and more bears are showing up not just on ranches to eat livestock, but even in towns to raid garbage containers, partly because there isn't any hunting season. Unless they really become pests they're tolerated--though some are moved, usually in "culvert traps," a section of steel culvert mounted on a trailer, but sometimes by helicopter. But sometimes they just keep coming back, so are "euthanized," either by shooting, or injection after they're trapped.
So no, they're not killed by hunting in remote areas far from a suitable scale. Instead the scale is either in the hands of the biologists, or in a nearby town after a bear is culvert-trapped--which also makes it easy to transport the bear to a certified scale.
The grizzly biologist I mentioned earlier (who has since retired) was the one who weighed the bear that bottomed out the 800-pound scale, which indicated they needed larger-capacity scales. Incidentally, that bear had never been trapped by biologists before, probably because he was born before the last hunting seasons ended and had learned to avoid people.
I'm going to have to assume you are referring to me stating Montana doesn't include weight with their records of big game species?
The only link for records they have I am aware of is this one..
Tinman makes a good point about bear size, nutrition etc.... Years ago I worked at a shop with about 6 other guys, they were all hunters, deer & elk. None of them hunted bears. Well I wanted a bear and we had a spring season so every spring I went bear hunting. My co-workers humored me, but pretty much thought I was wasting my time. None of them had ever killed a bear. The first 2 years I would spot a bear or two , but could never get a shot. The third year I finally got a chance, I spotted a bear just as it went into a lone stand of tree's, so I hustled over and waited and when he came out the other side, I shot him at about 50 yds. I was very happy I finally got my bear. It wasn't very large, maybe 150 lbs ? anyhow back then we had to take the hide and skull to fish & Game, they tagged the hide , extracted a tooth and tested the meat. Naturally I took the hide to work to show my skeptical co-workers, I stretched the hide out and it was all they could do to keep from laughing. Finally somebody said, that's not very big! I didn't care, it was my first bear after a few years of trying. Well F&G sent me info from the tooth they extracted and told me it was a 7 year old bear and in it's prime.... I suspect 6 months denned up and climbing around the Montana mountains for a living made for a relatively small size bear? My second Mt. bear was a beautiful blond bear, about the same size and the F&G test results said it was also a 7 year old bear!
Edited to clarify, these were black bear, not grizzlies
Last edited by irfubar; 11/28/23.
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
The coastal sow brown bear with 2 cubs that was on my deck at night a few years ago probably went 250 plus or minus. I was surprised she wasn't bigger. But she was plenty big enough at 5 feet that I didn't open the sliding glass door to take a picture, which reflected off the glass and didn't turn out. Even tho the deck light was on.
Her cub gave me a laugh. I had had a bird feeder in the corner of the deck, with the gate fastened back to form a triangle so the Lab would not bother the birds which soon learned they could safely feed with his nose inches away. I'd taken it down a few days before and cleaned up the spilled seed, but there were maybe 6 sunflower seeds on the deck, The cub was laying on his side, face jammed against the gate pickets, with it's tongue stretched out as far as it could go trying to get those last few seeds.
But there's only so much I'll do for a pic.
The one - a few years later- that came across the lawn just behind her cubs was no bigger - maybe smaller. The cubs were trying to go nosies with my Lab. The sow was telling her brats to get the hell back in the woods and was very, very carefully in not making eye contact with me. I was clutching my garden trowel and backing up, just behind the Lab. Our little procession as I backed 180 degrees around the house to a door was maybe 45 feet, front to back. That girl impressed me favorably!
The sow grizzly with 2 cubs on the Noatak that came by me at 3 yards was long legged and bigger bodied. Her head was about even with my chin. I'd guess she went 350 max, but that could have been my eyes wide open.
All good bears! But, as said, they vary widely in size, for any number of reasons.
I think hereditary traits are at play in bear sizes of course, hibernating habits too but continual food sources are the primary. In over 35 years in my far northern MN bear camp we have taken some beauties and have a very good population.
There is an area towards northwestern MN west of me where the heavy forest/bog country meets farm land and they have a lot more bears, a much faster growth rate, and overall many more heavy bears. It’s incredible what those bears can do to corn, sunflower, and soybean fields. The guys I know guiding there do very well.
These are black bears of course but I’m sure the same metrics come in play for the grizzlies. It’s interesting to me that the grizzly bears are somewhat stockier than the blacks here, or the ones from out east in those mountains. The longest I’ve seen here was 7’11” nose to tail. Our bears that top 300lbs, scale weighed, are 6’2” or better. The 300lb mark is achieved by year 11, sooner by 3 years in that agriculture area.
It’s great seeing all the grizzlies posted here and the guys reporting the lengths and weights. Sorry if I stepped on your topic Sal… but anything “bear” I greatly enjoy.
A side note.. I have pics from a camera of a black bear going 48” at the shoulder/back, simply huge. The researchers up here I’ve done work with knew the bear from their dealings with him at the bear sanctuary in Orr MN. They told me they had that bear in the 875lb range. They deduced that I don’t know how. Point is any animal population can have that odd giant but that’s what they are, an oddball.
Osky
A woman's heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth and I can find no sign on it.
Tinman makes a good point about bear size, nutrition etc.... Years ago I worked at a shop with about 6 other guys, they were all hunters, deer & elk. None of them hunted bears. Well I wanted a bear and we had a spring season so every spring I went bear hunting. My co-workers humored me, but pretty much thought I was wasting my time. None of them had ever killed a bear. The first 2 years I would spot a bear or two , but could never get a shot. The third year I finally got a chance, I spotted a bear just as it went into a lone stand of tree's, so I hustled over and waited and when he came out the other side, I shot him at about 50 yds. I was very happy I finally got my bear. It wasn't very large, maybe 150 lbs ? anyhow back then we had to take the hide and skull to fish & Game, they tagged the hide , extracted a tooth and tested the meat. Naturally I took the hide to work to show my skeptical co-workers, I stretched the hide out and it was all they could do to keep from laughing. Finally somebody said, that's not very big! I didn't care, it was my first bear after a few years of trying. Well F&G sent me info from the tooth they extracted and told me it was a 7 year old bear and in it's prime.... I suspect 6 months denned up and climbing around the Montana mountains for a living made for a relatively small size bear? My second Mt. bear was a beautiful blond bear, about the same size and the F&G test results said it was also a 7 year old bear!
Edited to clarify, these were black bear, not grizzlies
I helped out a friend at his bear operation one spring in Idaho up against the Montana border. Horse operation of course. Had a client shoot a boar that the state aged at 17 years old. That boar looked nice and prime other than some grey hair and it was not 300 lbs nor was it 6’ long. Mountain blacks just don’t get the size. Sounds like you did very well.
Osky
A woman's heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth and I can find no sign on it.
Tinman makes a good point about bear size, nutrition etc.... Years ago I worked at a shop with about 6 other guys, they were all hunters, deer & elk. None of them hunted bears. Well I wanted a bear and we had a spring season so every spring I went bear hunting. My co-workers humored me, but pretty much thought I was wasting my time. None of them had ever killed a bear. The first 2 years I would spot a bear or two , but could never get a shot. The third year I finally got a chance, I spotted a bear just as it went into a lone stand of tree's, so I hustled over and waited and when he came out the other side, I shot him at about 50 yds. I was very happy I finally got my bear. It wasn't very large, maybe 150 lbs ? anyhow back then we had to take the hide and skull to fish & Game, they tagged the hide , extracted a tooth and tested the meat. Naturally I took the hide to work to show my skeptical co-workers, I stretched the hide out and it was all they could do to keep from laughing. Finally somebody said, that's not very big! I didn't care, it was my first bear after a few years of trying. Well F&G sent me info from the tooth they extracted and told me it was a 7 year old bear and in it's prime.... I suspect 6 months denned up and climbing around the Montana mountains for a living made for a relatively small size bear? My second Mt. bear was a beautiful blond bear, about the same size and the F&G test results said it was also a 7 year old bear!
Edited to clarify, these were black bear, not grizzlies
I helped out a friend at his bear operation one spring in Idaho up against the Montana border. Horse operation of course. Had a client shoot a boar that the state aged at 17 years old. That boar looked nice and prime other than some grey hair and it was not 300 lbs nor was it 6’ long. Mountain blacks just don’t get the size. Sounds like you did very well.
Osky
Thank you Osky. I don't think Sal will mind our little diversion on his bear thread... and bear threads are fun as they should be
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
I think I have told this story here before? but bear stories get better with age, no? I was on top of a mountain deep in the Bob Marshall wilderness hunting elk. We rode up to the tree line in elevation and were glassing, when I saw this thing slowly emerge from what was a 2000' cliff. As it came into view it was a very large grizzly. I pointed it out to the outfitter and he said , wow, that's a big bear.... problem being he was on the trail we just rode up and intended to return the same way.... We decided to eat our lunch and watch which way he goes.... he was about 300 yds away. He finally noticed us glassing him... instead of scurrying away as a good bear should do, he gave us that beady eyed stare they are known for! and started our way! the outfitter said he could be on us in a matter of seconds , grab your lunch , mount up and chamber a round! So we rode away over the ridge into the next basin.... as we rode through this alpine basin I noted several of the scrub pines had fresh piles of broken limbs at the base. I rode up to them and noticed fresh claw marks, the bear had raked the limbs off! thing is, sitting on the back of an average size horse I could barely reach the top of the claw marks! Since wee couldn't return the way we came we had to ride around the backside of the mountain, it was a long ride and we got into camp late at night.
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
A friend once had to shoot a charging brown bear on Memorial Day weekend, just after season had ended. He, I, and an experienced guide went back up to skin it out. The guide estimated the bear at about 1,000 lbs, the hide squared 9'2", and the tooth section showed the bear to be 31 years old, at the time the second oldest on record. 4 30-06 rounds at about 30 yards had put him down, two of them fatal lung placement. The first round broke his left shoulder, turning him broadside . I guess the other round thru the guts would have proved fatal eventually too.
He still had 4" of fat on his hind quarters, less along the back, and a mouthful of missing, abscessed, and loose teeth. I easily pulled one of the "solid" ones out with my fingers.
Died in a run-off stream, so the 4"-of-hair hide was water soaked, draining all the way the 8 miles back-pack out, and hour's drive home, where it still weighed 180 lbs on my bathroom scale.
We took turns with the pack... with help getting it on, and up.
Back when I was doing some seasonal work for USFWS outside of Lincoln, we were having dinner one night at the local steakhouse. I had noticed the bear barrel trap outside and had heard that they were trying to trap a problem griz.
After several beers, the bar tender said they’d give me a free beer if I helped them bait the cage. My drunken butt of course naively climbed in the barrel trap to put the bait in the back.
Of course my [bleep] co-workers dropped the gate, pointed and laughed at me. They gave me my beer and I sat in that stupid trap for an hour with the smelly bait until they finally let me out.
Back when I was doing some seasonal work for USFWS outside of Lincoln, we were having dinner one night at the local steakhouse. I had noticed the bear barrel trap outside and had heard that they were trying to trap a problem griz.
After several beers, the bar tender said they’d give me a free beer if I helped them bait the cage. My drunken butt of course naively climbed in the barrel trap to put the bait in the back.
Of course my [bleep] co-workers dropped the gate, pointed and laughed at me. They gave me my beer and I sat in that stupid trap for an hour with the smelly bait until they finally let me out.
What a bunch of asses…😀.
Look at the brite side... at least they didn't drive you out into the hills to release you, honk the horn then drive off....
Originally Posted by Judman PS, if you think Trump is “good” you’re way stupider than I thought! Haha
Somebody here mentioned the grizzlies the Lewis and Clark expedition encountered, especially the big bison-eating bears around the Great Falls of the Missouri--and mentioned it was too bad they couldn't have weighed one. But I seem to remember they did, at least in parts--due to having several Lewis and Clark references in my library, including the eight-volume Reuben Gold Thwaites edition of their journals.
While L&C was primarily a military expedition, they were also tasked with several other jobs, including the natural history of the region--and had accurate instruments for weighing and measuring various animals. Will check and see if I can find the references.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
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