Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics Howa Mini action in 6.5 Grendel

This is all complete and utter horseschit because you've never used the 6mm ARC/108 to know how it will perform.

Bahahaha! The 6.5 Grendel guy certainly looks like his hippie commune name could be "stinkycoyote"

What is this magic formula? SD and impact velocity are numbers. How are you representing construction as a number in this "formula"?


How many animals have you killed at like yardages to compare terminal results of 6mm 108 gr projectiles vs. 6.5mm 123 gr projectiles?

You go first with your experiences with both. Include impact velocities please. I’ve documented 6 years worth of personal kills along with some key kills from others with recovered bullets and impact velocities to show the range of the eld-m to back up what I’m saying. If ya have Instagram head over to 65grendelhunters to see what I’ve been doing and for how long. Then go ahead and share your experience and limited understanding of terminal ballistics. Everything needing to be said has been said, can’t make you understand it lol.

We had to split the c-hair so now it’s split. Or are you the reasons for the pointy urinals? Size does matter, despite what your person tells you. All joking aside you nut job 6mm fanboys. I freaking love the 108 numbers and if I had to shoot a 6mm I would and it would work fine. There’s simply just a better option for a hunter in the 30gr powder class for the eld-m and hunting as primary. 6.5 always wins, always will...common knowledge so not sure why you’re still arguing? Picture of a rock and people here will argue about it.

You’ll see in my page a recovered eld-m from sharp quartering whitetail with 100 gr retained weight of the total bits. About 81% retained. Now if your 108 impacted same speed it would be 87 grains left but it wouldn’t impact same speed at 200 would it? So rather than go full 18” like mine did yours would lose it’s sd faster and penetrate shallower. You would still have killed the deer. When we start talking about moose and elk now and wanting to maximize penetration on the eldm the slowing it down and adding some mass is the better formula. Choose whatever you like. From 0-500 the Grendel 123 is the ultimate choice for this end of spectrum and big game hunting. The 108 looks best from 200-700 but feels light for the class 3 game. It will work but one lines up better in every way. Hunting is a 0-500 for the masses. In the 500 yard window of eldm goodness the Grendel will have most consistent and reliable performance across that window in the range of actual hunting muzzle to 500. Start using that stuff between your ears better and visualize it because we don’t have terminal ballistics calculators yet to show us this stuff. Some can do this better than others. 😉

So to pare down Stinky's argument, it is "because I say so". The numbers matter but they don't matter, unless they do matter, when I decide they matter. Think about it.

Sort of. Should have demonstrated by now I’ve been studying ballistics tables since is was 12 and a top student since and applied along the way. You don’t have to hear my experience or what I’ve learned. I’m 50 now. It’s there for all to do whatever they like with. What did you expect a 6.5 Grendel vs 6 arc thread question would look like?

Glad we worked this out though and it didn’t need to go 100 pages deep like anything with big stick does lol.

You could not really make a bad choice in the 30gr powder class between these two, they are getting the most from the powder in the class. Figure out what’s most important to you and giver. I’m glad they both exist as they will boost each other’s success and keep ammo on shelves. Very deserving and efficient 21st century cartridges.

Ah yes, a true expurt in the field.
Suspect if you actually used a 6 ARC/108 you'd find that it does the same thing as a 6.5 Grendel.

6Arc vs 6.5 Grendel thread? I sure don't remember reading that in the OP. Nor did he mention anything about hunting. He was actually asking about what scope to put on it. A bit of A.D.D. going on in this thread.

You're right. This is, without a doubt, the first time a topic has ever experienced thread drift in the history of 24hourcampfire.

In the optics forum, no less.

Is nothing sacred?

Bahahaha!

Pardon my simply shooting it all and then some. Hint................

short memories you bastards lol...this was asked on page 5...it's all his fault

I would go along with that, we are picking fly sh1t out of pepper here. But maybe if a guy is choosing and is curious, like Teal was, with ALL this perspective and experience he can make the best choice for him? Capiche?

I can say if you were to look at a ton of dead things without knowing what formula actually shot them you'd have a hard time being able to tell most of it. What you would be able to tell is if it was a rapid expansion construction formula vs a delayed controlled expansion formula, that's about it. There's impressive stuff on the rokslide .223 thread from 77 gr tmk...it's running the bottom end of this high sd, rapid expansion more moderate velocity formula and they are sort of trying to disappear the bullet over the 14-19" they may see...not much left of it, 20-30 grains so the grenade is real and does the job and makes a mess. You're going to see similar with all these munchkin cartridges. If you're ok with that and say and upper 400 yard limit the .223 cool. The 6 arc and 6.5 grendel upper limits are beyond that imo and many want to see more bullet left after it does it's work. If we had the calculators...and we don't...for discussion purposes only and have to use your imagination...the 6 arc and 6.5 grendel I think you'd find a deeper penetration window although the arc to 200 likely more explosive and then from 200-700 more consistently predictable, where the grendel is in the window from 0-500 and you can expect as much bullet back as the .223 option would start with even up close...if you don't get an exit. I don't get to recover many from the grendel, not broadside or moderate quartering, must be steep quartering or lengthwise, it's a predictable 20" reliable from basically muzzle to 500.

We will have these zillion page arguments on terminal ballistics until we get calculators up to same levels of inflight ballistics which we can place bullets into milk jugs at a couple miles now but look at the gong show rodeo's we get talking about when the bullet starts swimming!

We still haven't developed sectional density reduction rate per inch cross referenced with energy per inch dump rate and developed standardized testing to show us what to reliably predict between all bullet choices at various impact velocities etc. We don't speak in 'that's a 16" set up at 60 ft/lbs per inch, you may want to look for a 30" at 100 ft/lbs per inch set up for your Alaska moose hunt etc.?? And one cartridge can go from coyotes to moose so it's about the bullet, the finished bullet and it's related travel is yet to be studied. I've banged on about this since 2020. Studying wound channels and trying to objective that was the wrong direction. First guy through the wall gets bloody. Still waiting for a call from Hornady to give me unlimited gel budget and develop this out lol. Although a team of azzholes likely better, rate of spin be a factor that could include to show what internal to expect? Could be a couple extra factors to be thought of to explain the grenade or lack there of inside. But for sure the sdrr and err need to be looked at the most.

So again, don't have to listen to me, but hopefully I've put some new perspective out there to get your own smoke to start coming out your ears and you make better choices going forward. If you have an arc you'll be fine, if you have the choice...and hunting is the primary...may wanna look at that 123gr pill for most consistent 0-500 yard performance...the arc is a little fast for the cup/cores in the first 200 imo.

I think big stick is feeling a little left out, he's tried to play terminal ballistics talk before but he can't...not enough fire between the ears to make any smoke, but his little chirps are cute. Stay in your lane stick, you have product to bash so you can sell other product lol.

I suspect if we do develop out the terminal ballistics calculators to same 21st century levels we have with inflight ballistics...there will be so much crossover that a lot of cartridges will start to disappear. Maybe that's why the manufacturers aren't going there? Hmmm

would be good for us, maybe bad for them? although they will just end up selling more of less items and we will find everything on shelves and more affordably? lets do it lol

There you go again, guessing about stuff you read on the internet.

I hope you are in a profession where you get paid by the word.

Aces wept.

You poor bastard lol. You can’t keep up anywhere, you’re a dollar short day late guy, it irks you so you bark. You’re kinda like big stick, in the deep end and forgot your water wings. Not sure where you fit in but yer gonna try anyway.

And no bro, I data mine and make use of that data for a living, imagine that lol. I didn’t always that was always more of a passion and how my brain is wired, I mostly twisted wrenches, but funny how you get to sometimes do what your brain is wired for sometimes. Excel not word, just happened to take typing through high school but not really because I wanted to type, had them all to myself lol. Call me dumb now eh? 😉

You’re not ready for this level of discussion around terminal ballistics. Take your curtsy and bow out while you can. It’s embarrassing to watch people bark insults or poke fun because they don’t have any water wings.

Go ahead and tell us how a couple fractions of added bc/sd plus speed on a frangible construction bullet is better for hunting than something slower and heavier but still has more than adequate numbers for hunting. I’m all ears