Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors Savage 99 cd series A forend keeps coming loose

As the title says. I’ve tried all my logical ideas, and when firing this Savage 99cd series A, .358 Winchester, even if I degrease and medium loctite the forend screw and go very snug/tight, the screw walks out or loosens more with each shot fired.

Screw was bent when I took possession of the rifle, now I know why.

What can I do to remedy this?

The metal insert is still there in the forend for the screw head to pull against, have considered finding a lock washer to fit under the forend screw?

Of course would be good to get a new forend screw as well.

For any clarity, it’s a .975” length screw and the beginning two or three threads are flattened pretty good.

Would be better to get a new forend screw and also the corresponding female threaded part that dovetails into the bottom of the barrel and begin with both sets of threads being good and sharp. Any insight as to what that dovetail female threaded piece is called?

My 99f has a bent screw also. I think savage used to small of a screw when this was designed. On my next forend replacement, I intend to upgrade the screw size to what Winchester used on the model 70. Someone here may have better advice for you. Alan

Gunbroker has what you need. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1021147075

Ah thank you.

I’d have to assume, that shorter screw is the same threads as my .975” screw? I’m only getting about 1/4” - 3/8” worth of thread engagement it looks like on this .975” screw.

I see Numrich has more .975’s.

He doesn't say if that's the overall length of the screw. Some folks just measure the shank and exclude the head. Might wait and see on the length.

Oh, well I never thought of that! Yep might be wise to go for it either way sure don’t find many elsewhere.

If both the male and female threads are good, the forearm shouldn't come loose.

If the original screw was bent, the female thread may have been partially stripped. You might look at tapping the barrel stud for the next larger diameter screw in order to have fresh, sharp, threads and buy a new screw to match the new threads.

I put a neoprene o-ring between the forearm and barrel to cushion the connection and slightly isolate the barrel from the forearm.

If you need any Savage parts that GPC doesn't have, try Jack First in Rapid CIty, SD.

Thanks. Surprisingly or not surprisingly, GPC and Jack First are both all out of barrel studs as is my typical luck.

Yes when I install the forearm it feels like I’m doing harm to threads every time and visually that’s what it looks like is happening now. First few times I just tried cleaning and torque. This last time I tried degrease and medium loctite and it came loose just as fast and then of course the screw feels even worse coming the rest of the way out.

I put a rubber "O" ring on my 99F to improve accuracy. You might try that! App. 1/4"

Hip

I do like the o-ring / rubber washer idea, can’t see it hurting much for sure. Might reduce the issue until I can get new parts. Far easier to find that than a proper sized lock washer, and a lock washer might not be the wisest for all I know.

Confused... there was never a 99CD in 358, nor even a 99C in 358. Is it rebarreled? Rebored?

It began life as a .308. Had it rebored to .358 and now it’s legal for Deer in Iowa.

Gotcha!

Anyone happen to know the thread size of the forend screw? Might head to town and see if I can get a tap and straight threads out a bit. I can probably get this screw to work at the hardware store, but its messed up some.

The thread is 8-40.

Can you tell if there is a gap between the receiver and the forearm? Something seems to be putting abnormal pressure on that screw.

With the forend installed, screw tight, I can feel and see no more than a business card or less of a gap at one point of the rear of the forend stock. But elsewhere around the forend it is snug to the receiver.

Placing that business card in that same spot with the forend screw out, then feeling forend as I remove the business card, it does seem to move further into the receiver just a tiny bit.

I had previously thought about putting a spacer inside between the inner diameter of the receiver and the forend tenon that fits in there. But, my lack of experience told me don’t go guessing.

Not totally sure, but under recoil something must be moving enough to loosen a fairly poorly holding screw. Maybe forend is shifting fore/aft if only 1/64”?

One more question. Have tried up to 3 rubber washers around the barrel stud. Found a new 8-40 screw at Ace Hardware.

Forend is still working loose.

The forend screw hole is pretty loose and frankly not aligned very well to the barrel stud. Forend hold is about 1/8” too far toward the muzzle when you try and align it.

1. Should the forend hole fit snugly around the barrel stud or would that cause potential cracking? There’s really nothing besides screw tension otherwise keeping the forend fro sliding forward toward the muzzle in this particular gun’s case?

After a range session, I'm now barely achieving minute of Deer for 5 shot groups at 100 yards, on bags/table, and I can with moderate to light force, move the forend back and forth about 1/16''. Fired about 15 rounds. Seems ridiculous.

I full length glass bedded my forearm including where it fits in the receiver to make it rock solid. Shoots exactly the same as with no forearm. About 100 rounds through it and no more deer tags left this season. It has a heavier barrel than a normal 99, but shoots great.

The fore arm of a lever gun and a single shot shouldn't touch the receiver. That presents a possible inhibition of the barrel to vibrate freely upon discharge. Accuracy is all about letting the barrel do its thing, and do it consistently.

Have you tried shooting it with the fore arm completely removed? That'll tell the tale of whether or not the wood is the culprit behind your awful accuracy. Mind you, the dynamics of the rifle changed a lot when you bored out the barrel and made it weigh a lot less than when it left the factory - it's vibrating/whipping quite differently now upon discharge.

Were it my rifle I would buy/make a new barrel stud with or without fresh 8-40 threads in it. (I wonder if whoever did the re-boring had the stud off and didn't get it perfectly back to where it was supposed to be?) If making a new stud without a threaded hole in it, clamp the barrel securely and level in the drill press or mill with the drill bit poised over the new stud, and then clamp the fore arm on where you want it to live on the gun. Run the drill down perfectly centered in the stock's hole and drill the stud. Remove the wood and finish the hole and thread it with the quill of the machine also. That way it can't possibly be out of alignment. If the new stud is already d/t'ed the protocol is much the same, simply use the new hole to center the bit and then stick the wood on to see if it hits squarely when passed through the hole in the wood.

Screws/bolts lengths are always measured to the bottom of the head, with the exception of flat head screws which are measured overall.

If you can slide the forearm with the screw tightened it makes me wonder if the screw is bottoming out in the stud before it draws the forearm tight to the barrel. Can you tell if that is happening?

I haven't tried it without the forend but I certainly can. Each round is going through a cheaper Caldwell Chrono, and it thinks I'm getting a max of about 50 fps in variation, which, for handloads, isn't very good, but we're also only talking about whitetail hunting at 50-200 yards, so those could be improved on, but I'm ok with reasonable accuracy in this case, as I've now only got 1.5 days before the hunt. A month ago this gun was shooting decent groups, and I go out today and blow my confidence apart.


The barrel stud currently in it, takes the New 8-40 screw just fine from beginning to end, but I'm not educated enough to know how good/bad the female threads are. The barrel stud can be drifted side to side in the dovetail but does fit tightly. I drifted the barrel stud a tiny bit to make the forend barrel recess fit better without pressing on the side of the gun barrel. Barrel stud seems to stay located otherwise.

The fact that the barrel stud is almost 1/8'' mis-aligned with the seated Forend stock screw hole baffles me. Surely the barrel stud doesn't change location if I take it out of the dovetail and flip it 180 degrees but I guess I haven't check that either.

He forend doesn’t move at all when I torque the screw down.

But after a few shots it will, then the forend will both rotate side to side and the tenon will move inside the receiver recess as well. Typically I find the screw can then retighten and the forearm goes back to solid.

The forend stays tight but every 4 shots I can apply the same torque to the screwdriver and the screw easily advances clockwise about 1/16” tighter.

Then best of all my elevation POI changes wildly every time.

So seemingly the same torque on the forend, but screw ends up further in, and POI shift is in the 6-8” range of change every time.

Good grief. I’ve never seen anything like it.

The metal insert in the forend doesn’t seem to be going deeper, the screw isn’t bottomed out in the barrel stud.

I’m baffled and I’m at the point where it looks like my fun project gun isn’t even worth taking out hunting.

8” groups even still. Something is off and evidently I’m beyond my pay grade. All other guns I’ve ever hand loaded for have been sub moa. Unreal.

You need to shoot some groups with the forearm removed. It's a common problem but usually it can be solved. Yours is certainly a challenge!

For sure. I've been known to fight things longer than some, but I've run out of ambition for one day.

When shooting groups with no forend, does a person rest that rifle on the barrel, or do you try and "free float" the barrel while shooting groups, and rest only on the magazine/receiver area? My guess is you rest the rifle on the barrel to imitate similar upward force on the barrel as when the forend would normally be there?

Maybe dumb question, but I'm all out of feeling smart right now.

Just rest on the receiver. The idea is to remove any pressure on the barrel. The provides an indication of potential accuracy; or at least that is the thinking behind it.

Ok thanks. Will try that in the morning.

I almost wonder if the red dot isn’t holding zero but I’ve got several of them and they’ve all been wonderful (Sig Romeo5 yes, not high dollar, but they have always held zero for me, up until possibly now.). They claim to be rated for it. But another thought is take that off and try it with irons. Even irons at 100 should be better than this by a lot.

Another trick, common in the world of vintage single shot benchrest competition, is to rest the naked barrel on its nodal point. To find the spot hold the gun upside down with the forearm off and ring the barrel with a hard stick or small hammer, like ringing a chime. Move up and down the barrel until you find the spot where you get a dull "thunk" instead of a "ring" and mark it - that's your nodal point, and it's usually found fairly close to the muzzle. Rest the muzzle right there when shooting. Not saying it's better than resting a 99 on its receiver just different, and may surprise you. (I shoot all of my heavy long barreled single shots in competition this way, as do a lot of my competitors. On two .32-40's the spot is 6" and 6 1/2" back from the muzzle, and my BSA Martini International .22 the spot is 7" back from the muzzle.)

Not entirely germane to the discussion, but here's a pic of my Pope-style machine rest used for load development. You can see where the barrel sled is clamped on right at the barrel's nodal point. The difference in accuracy if the sled is attached anywhere else is startling, and accuracy difference - with my barrel and load - from shooting it resting on its forearm is obvious also.

Now that is something new to me. Nodal point. Interesting.

I took the forearm off tonight, I think the screw is now going into the barrel stud more than it did before. It used to bottom out after .380” of the screw was in the stud. Now it goes in .400”. This is all with the forearm off, so maybe doesn’t matter.

Before it looked like the barrel stud was threaded until about where you’d think the stud stops annd the dovetail portion of it begins, and right at that .380 depth there was metal at a slightly smaller Inner Diameter than the barrel stud threads. Now that metal is almost gone and the screw goes in further. Might have been what galled up the threads on the original factory screw if the factory screw was making it down that far.

Anyway, new screw remains unbent still. 2 rubber washers kept the stock snug better than any other attempt. But the ever tightening screw thing has me wondering what eventual fix would keep the forearm from causing this.

Will certainly shoot with no forearm and no red dot and try to weed out variables in the morning.

Well, not a real comprehensive update yet. Long story short, the rifle stayed home as I couldn't make any real gains with it last week.

I tried some forearm fitment things. I noticed the forearm really does contact the barrel tightly with a properly tightened forearm screw. Did some relieving and file work there, and have a little more yet to do. I now have the forward part of the forearm allowing a piece of paper to slide between barrel and forearm where that was impossible before. Need to check the rear half behind the screw yet. The receiver end of the forearm does seem to be freely floating in that recess.

Anyway, accuracy was still poor, so I shot the gun with no forearm for about 5 groups. Accuracy was more or less no different. It is also worth noting that I was pretty frustrated, still am, while trying to discover why this gun so far won't shoot worth a hoot. I was also pressed for time. Neither of these things lend to wonderful marksmanship, however I do feel I was pulling a trigger pretty well even so. (I picked up my Marlin '94 not long after this, and was still shooting 1moa or so with it.) So, we are still at about 8 moa with this 99. Unthinkable.

I then removed the red dot and fired a few groups with the Skinner barrel mounted rear peep sight. Thinking maybe red dot has failed. Accuracy was no better. Figure a little more margin of error with irons than the 2moa size red dot I was using, but still, unacceptable accuracy.

So longer story longer, I think there's a few things to try and tune a little more before writing them off as a non-issue.

For further information, I'm using Ramshot TAC with a fairly heavy charge under Hornady 200gr Spire Point bullets, and I'm lately averaging about 2550fps. That's honestly about 50fps faster than my initial goal, so could maybe lessen that charge a little bit. I've also not tinkered very much with C.O.A.L. so there is some potential gain to be made there as well. Anyone have any "99 specific cartridge dimensions their gun seems to like?" I think for the load/gun, this is on the fast end of things.

The only real thing of note, is that most of the innaccuracy is vertical. Windage I have almost no problem. But I can string groups vertically 8-10 inches every time.

For sh*ts and giggles, try firing a couple shots by letting the barrel cool down completely between shots. If the vertical grouping is dispelled then the whole issue centers around the barrel walking as it heats up. Also if the first two shots one right after the other puts the bullets into a satisfactory "group" I would probably hunt with it as-is. Those third, fourth, fifth shots are Hail Mary shots 98% of the time anyway.

Yep, good point. I was doing "real world" cooldown I suppose, counting to about 60 seconds between each shot in a 4 shot group. But I never went to the extreme for a total cool down.

I know it's dam expensive but I'd get a box of factory loaded ammo and check accuracy without the forearm in place. 99s typically don't like heavy loads.

Quick update: I’m approximately as frustrated as I was two months ago.

The gun / ammo is just erratic still. 8-12” wandering groups across now 8 different load recipes using TAC. Have traveled approximate a 2.5 grain range of recipes. Velocities tend to be pretty erratic, lot of times varying 50fps or more over a 5 shot string. Velocity now between 2350 and 2520 has been tried. All using Hornady 200gr SP bullets.

For my typical reloading that seems to be a lot of variation. Had a couple recipes that vary less but the accuracy is still erratic. Have tried C.O.A.L from 2.630 to 2.650. My Speer book says I can go up to 2.680.

Forend removed for all testing, resting gun on receiver only.

I’ve taken to shooting from a Lead Sled. Using a Skinner barrel mounted peep sight and taller front sight. Not the best for sight radius and precision but I’m ruling out a bad optic at least.

I’ve had the buttstock issue a couple times so I’m used to keeping that snug.

I’ve checked and cleaned copper fouling now a couple times. New bore etc.

Maybe TAC powder is my problem? Friend of mine recommends H322 instead. I also have IMR 4895 on hand.

Hate to give up on TAC but I’m tired of chasing my tail.

might sound silly but check the mussel for any glitches.

norm

Yes, I have taken a look at the muzzle a few times. Honestly it's not the prettiest crown I've ever seen but I've chalked that up to the type of rifling style JES Reboring does. The carbon deposits aren't all that symmetrical compared to some rifles I own, but they are at least, approximately symmetrical. Definitely no obvious dings or irregularities that I see around the crown/muzzle anyway.

I wonder if the rebore got into the bottom of the forearm stud? Or maybe it's close enough that the vibrations from shooting are now walking that thing around, creating your accuracy and screw issues. I'd drive that sucker out and have a look at it and the barrel. Have you called the company that rebored it and talked to them about this?

FWIW, my 358 doesn’t play well with TAC. Not as bad as your groups but not good either. Mine likes IMR4320. I’d try some of that 4895 you have.

Dale

Both of my 358’s like 44gr of 3031 with 220gr Speers.

That. It ain’t a target rifle