Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 35 Whelen……

For those of you who live in a state (Iowa, Louisiana) that allows the 35 Whelen as a “restricted” or “primitive” weapon can you share how it meets those restrictions. I have a Whelen and run 250’s safely to 2700. Not a frozen rope but that gets me similar drop as a 180 30-06 and around 4K Ft/Lbs energy. Just curious. Seems like a hell of a victory. I know our restricted zone in Michigan has 35 cal or larger straight walled case no longer than 1.8”. Hence the 450 Bushmaster, 350 Legend etc. We even have one guy building custom 45-70 with trimmed cases to 1.8” and a 405 and 500 grain bullets loaded out to meet SAAMI COAL.

Louisiana “primitive weapon” single shot 35 caliber or larger scope or iron sights. Muzzle loaders good to go. Single shot crack barrel.

How long of a barrel does it take to get 2700 out of a 250?

Was wondering the same.

I am getting 2850ish out of a 24” barreled .35 with 225’s. Hell in deer here in Iowa

I don’t know, but Nosler data is short of 2700 with a 26” barrel. Speer does list one load 2,700+ but doesn’t give barrel length. I get 2,734 fps with CFE223 with a 225 gr Partition out of a 22” barrel if my chronometer is to be believed. It’s under the max load according to Speer data for a 220 gr FP.

Mine only has a 20” barrel and I long ago settled on 2500 as being the magic speed for me. But 2700 with a 250 seems to be 358 Norma territory to me.

I’m playing with 180 gr .358 bullet out of a straight wall ( .357 Rimless).223 starline basic brass cut at 1.8” legal in Michigan. Getting 2600 fps out of a 26” MGM encore barrel. I also put together a Remington 700 with a 24” MGM Remage barrel in the same. and Wyatt box magazine bottom metal. Feed’s flawlessly. I set the barrel headspace to virgin basic brass and fire formed them to fit chamber, trim, then size the top 1/3 with 357 dies. I have not worked up a load for the Remington but for the Encore AA1680 is the ticket.
Basically a 350 legend on steroids.

I have a Ruger M 77 Hawkeye with a 14” twist 24” Shilen premium barrel and the chamber was cut with a tight tolerance premium reamer that gave me a smidge more play in the throat . The bore is smother than a spanked babies ass which I’m sure gives me a little advantage on the fps and cleans up with minimal effort . I get a wee bit more fps than book on the chronograph than Speer shows with CFE223 and AA2000MR. So much that I backed off a grain even without pressure signs. I was getting just under 2750 with a half grain less than max with 2000MR. I guess I got a really good barrel. I only had a pound of each of CFE and 2000MR so what I have loaded is what I have. I’ve found that the Whelen collects game just as well at 2400 fps as it does at 2700. I’m perfectly content with my current loads using 748 and RL15 running at an easy 2500-2600 fps. Speer Hot Cors, Hornady interlock SP or RN all hit the same POI. The 35 Whelen to me is the easy button. I hunt deer and bear primarily and rarely a shot exceeds 300 yards so a 250 grain bullet at 2600 fps ends arguments real fast. I’m glad it meets the legal standard for you guys. It’s a great round that should stick around for a long time.

It is right there with the Norma and with the right powders very doable but 2500 fps is a good place to be. I think with the Whelen getting some new attention Speer gave it another look and some attention. I would like to see them give the Norma and STA a freshening up as well. The 358 Norma Mag is a hell of a good cartridge that deserves some attention. If elk, moose or larger bear were a regular item on my menu I’d give it a serious look. Right now the Whelen is all I can ask for.

I built mine as a do it all rifle for hunting Alaska. I settled on 250s after a couple animals with 180s and 200s figuring I may as well use one of my many 30/06s for 180s and 200s.

Had great performance on black and grizzly bears, moose, and caribou with a variety of 250s. It doesn’t get much use these days since I moved outside but I keep it ready with a box of ammo for trips back up north.

In Louisiana & Mississippi, the rule I hunt under during primitive season allows a breech-loaded single-shot, .35 caliber or greater with an exposed hammer. If you can meet those criteria, then you're good to go.

So my Ruger #1 in 9.3x74r stays in the safe because it doesn't have an exposed hammer. Four of my hunting buddies hunt with either CVA or H&R crack barrels in .350 Legend, .35 Whelen or .45/70. I took my Mississippi primitive deer last month with a Browning 1885 in .44 Magnum. I didn't see any deer when I was carrying my .405 Winchester 1885 Traditional Hunter with iron sights.

Yep. I believe the original primitive weapons rules require 38 or larger caliber. Then Mississippi moved down to 35 caliber as a minimum, and Louisiana followed suit. We all shot 45-70 and 444 rifles to start with. 44 magnum‘s were great for lesser recoil options. Now, it seems everybody shoots the 35 Whelen if they want more reach. The 350 legend is the popular option for less recoil.

It's interesting to know that as I've only been doing the primitive hunt for the last few years. I always thought that the "exposed hammer" requirement was annoying since it eliminated a Ruger #1, Blaser K95, Merkel K5, etc. for no apparent good reason. This is a mild complaint since I have multiple 1885's that qualify & Mississippi does let me shoot a lot of deer.

But the original 38 caliber minimum does make it seem like the regulations were written by a politician looking at a Winchester 1885 Traditional Hunter which was commonly available in .38-55 & .45-70 calibers.

Original law also required that the rifle design had to date back to a certain year. Basic result was that the encore wasn’t legal. Since the CVA wasn’t around then the H&R was about the only commonly available option unless you wanted to fork over the money for a browning. Most people bought 45-70s but the 444 made more sense to me. Most shot/shoot Leverevolution ammo. I thought the handi rifles were cheap turds until I sighted in my dad’s. Quickly decided it beat the hell out of cleaning a muzzleloader and bought one that week.

T/C filed lawsuits over being excluded and the law was changed along with the caliber restriction. Once the law shifted to .35 cal minimum many people sold their bolt action 270/30-06/etc and bought 35 Whelen Encores and hunted with them year round. Now days the CVA scout is probably the most common choice.

That’s how I look at it. I built mine with the specific intention of knocking the snot out of black bear over hounds. If I was going to fling a 220 grain or less I might as well stick with a 30-06. No offense to those who do it in a Whelen as I know they get good results. I’m just a heavy for caliber person. My 14” twist is ideal for 250’s to 285. Have not tried 300 or 310’s as those can be rare and rather spendy. Beauty is that my Whelen has proven to be very tolerant in load development. It will accurately shoot most anything and I haven’t found a load I wouldn’t hunt with. I burned through a couple boxes of 200 grain green box core lokt for the brass and that showed very good accuracy. The brass was less than impressive but it shot well and hammered deer.

Way back in mid '90s. I had a Mod 700 Classic Whelen reamed to the Ackley. I got 2600/Barnes 250X/br2015. 22" barrel. ten years later I got 2750/Nosler 250/R15 and a mag primer. I hear of lots of standard Whelen guys getting outstanding speeds with these new powders. Its out there, good luck!
PS I got rid of the Whelen, always played with/used 30 to 375 mags then, but now I use a new to me 338-06 and I have no plans to ream it to Ackley. I can get plenty of speed with these new bullets/powders, so with same good powders your Whelen can run right with a 9.3x62 (on game) just saying. have a ball man!

I do know several folks that rarely shoot past 150-200yds who have also gone to using their Whelen single shots for much of their modern gun season. They like the knockdown and the bigger blood trails. I can't argue with that.

Yep. Also a lot of guys that only own one hunting rifle. Seems strange to me but whatever makes them happy. lol

Funny thing about your 200 yard comment is that I want to upgrade from the 444 to the Whelen specifically for 200 - 300 yard shots. I tend to hunt pipelines a lot early in the season and would prefer a little flatter trajectory. Plus the Scouts I’ve messed with have much better triggers than the handi rifles.

When it comes to single shots, I'm a big fan of the Ruger No. 1 and the Winchester 1885. So a couple of years ago I wrote Winchester a letter asking them if they would make the 1885 in the 35 Whelen for this exact reason. I felt that for a .35 caliber cartridge, the Whelen had a good amount of power and didn't have a trajectory like a rainbow. I also suggested if they thought that was a bad idea, that chambering it in .350 Legend would attract buyers from both straight-wall shooters and places with primitive seasons that required a caliber that large. Winchester was kind enough to reply thanking me for my feedback and then (as best as I can tell) never made another large caliber 1885 again. Oh well...it was worth a try.

We deer hunt in western Iowa and the .35 Whelen is legal there now as of a couple of years ago. I have been using the .35 Whelen for years, in N. America, Canada and twice to Africa. Probably my favorite cartridge overall. I have pretty much settled on the 225 grain bullet weight for the .35. My handloads are right about 2675 fps. 2700 fps sounds pretty hot for 250 grain bullets. I have taken game from steinbok to moose and it has worked wonderfully. The moose was in Alberta at a laser measured 410 yards so the Whelen can reach out when needed but it is best from 300 yards in, IMO

I borrowed a Whelen once for hogs that was setup on a Ruger 77 with a 26” Dougie barrel and 225 TSXs. To say it was hell on hogs is an understatement.

WTF is a Dougie barrel?

Douglas

It has become the rifle I grab most often for hunting. It sits next to a Nosler M21 300 Win Mag and a Rem 700 BDL 270.
Both very proven head collectors. The Whelen punches a big hole through and through that leaks blood like no other but it seems to not to ruin a bunch of meat.

My Handi Rifle 45-70 has an amazing trigger. I've owned a bunch of Handi's and none had a trigger close to this. I think somebody had it stoned or something

I’m jealous. Mine isn’t as bad as some. When I bought it I made them bring out every 444 they had so I could pick the best. 😁. Still sucks compared to my bolt guns or even ar.

I’m betting a smith would be able to clean it up pretty quick and easy.

At the time I bought it I didn’t trust any of the local guys. There was one guy recommended on a handi rifle forum I found but I never felt like shipping it off. Probably time to ask around again….

I hear you LSU fan! I grew up using junk rifles, shotguns, all had terrible triggers. I was surprised that even the high dollar Mod 94 Classic Carbine 30-30 I bought myself at 16, barely had a good trigger. I never had a H&R Handi Rifle ( I've played with four) that had a good trigger either. Its worth shipping one off to a reputable Smith! Good luck to you.

You’re not wrong but by the time I pay for shipping and the smith work I’m probably half way to the cost of a new CVA Scout. At least that’s how I keep justifying it to myself. Lol

I'm an idiot. Had a browning 1895 in whelen. Sold it. Have a rem 750 carbine. 7600 too. Had another 7600 and a 700 classic

We’ve all been there. There isn’t enough bandwidth to list all the rifles I should have never sold.

Found 2 full boxes of 250 corelocs. Looks like I paid 12.95 for one and 19.95 for the other lol

Not anymore. The good old days. I remember paying $6.99 for a box of 170 grain 30-30 shells.

.35 Whelen AI, 225gr SGK’s over Varget has accounted for a bunch of bucks for me.

Good job Jack.

I am not a Rem guy, but your's is beyond cool!

"It's interesting to know that as I've only been doing the primitive hunt for the last few years. I always thought that the "exposed hammer" requirement was annoying since it eliminated a Ruger #1, Blaser K95, Merkel K5, etc. for no apparent good reason."

It's more than just annoying as it makes absolutely no sense. The Ruger #1 is visually a clone of the Farquharsen (sp) of the late 1800s that was made popular but gunmakers like Holland and Holland, Westley Richards and Daniel Fraser. There is absolutely no reason they should not be allowed to be used in those restricted areas other than political stupidity which has been rather rampant these last few years.
I hunted with Ruger #1s for years starting in IIRC 1975. Last hunt I did with one was 2009 because the private ranch guided hunt would not allow me using one. Too many lost animals was their reasoning. Funny thing ever elk and the one antelope I took off those places was a one shot kill, most DRT. The most any went after the shot was maybe 30 yards. I always figured If I ever did another hunt on those ranches I'd just bring the one shooter of choice for the hunt and say, "Sorry guys. My house got burglarized while I was at the range and this is the only gun I own anymore." Worst they could do was not let me hunt and I'd damn well demand full refund of my payment or else.
I I lived in one of the states with that restriction I'd be bugging Ruger to sue like T/C did and maybe try to get a class action suit going at the same time. I doubt Ruger would bother as their bean counters would like to drop the #1s completely. A pox on them.
PJ

Somehow I don't see ever see trading my m77rs in 35 Whelen for a cva anything or handi rifle.mb

Thanks man, I love that rifle.

Yep.

Very nice rig Ed. What stock is that?

One of Mark Bansner's from many years ago.

Whelens have come and gone,





but not this one!







ya!

GWB

Nor should you but I also don’t really understand people that get rid of guns they like.

Just want to say one of the best cartridges I have used for a do it all rifle here in Alaska. Really punches above its weight by far. Currently have a weatherby mark v ultra light, a Forbes Rifle , and a Barrett fieldcraft all in 35 whelen. Really surprised it never caught on more than it did.