Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada PAL renewal times.

I called the CFC to follow up on my online application of 18-06-2023. It was approved 08-12-2023.

I had checked online a few times always the “received initial review completed if more details needed you will be contacted” notation.

It’s ridiculous that it takes 5 months and 20 days to process a renewal.

Our wonderful .gov at work.

GRF;
Good morning my friend, I hope that you and your wonderful family are well this still, warm for the season but cloudy day - well that's the weather report here.

We had a thread on that very subject on a mainly BC hunting and shooting forum I'm on and honestly the responses are all over the map.

Had family get an RPAL in under a month this spring or early summer and had people who waited almost a year and were wondering if they'd be able to go hunting this season because theirs had run out.

If I'm not wrong, one fellow ended up going to his MP or a PC MP to get some help, which he got because "suddenly" they figured out what the hold up was and his RPAL just magically appeared.

The same thing is happening with Canada Revenue now too with everyone working from home. I could tell you stories that'd curl my hair GRF and since you've met me and know there isn't any to curl other than under my nose and chin....

Both at work for my good wife and personally Canada Revenue has been an absolute nightmare to get any answers from - any....

It would appear to this casual observer that one of the many vicious casualties of PM Socks' lockdown was that in allowing the Swivel Servants to "work from home", a precedent was set and it wasn't a good one.

I'd love to be proven wrong about this too by the way, most folks cannot begin to fathom how badly I'd love to be wrong, but once more since you've met me and we chat from time to time, I do believe in this instance you know.

Anyways as far as remedies, it's perhaps not a bad plan to at least notify your Provincial Firearms Officer about it if your expiry is drawing near. We hear that Alberta CPFO actually can answer the phone, so that's a plus.

Good luck with this and all the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

Mine took all of 2 weeks from when I made application. GD

greydog;
Good morning, but just barely I see, regardless I hope you're all getting a bit of a reprieve over to the east and you're all well.

We're having an Okanagan winter like we used to have and personally I'm enjoying working in the yard with a light hoodie on and not having to plow snow every other day.

It's wild how your response is so different from others to me. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to it either that I can see as some of the speedier returns were RPALs and some of the snail's pace ones were just a PAL.

We used to expect the RPAL to take a wee bit longer or at least that was our family's experience with them vs. talking to folks who didn't do RPALs.

All the best to you and your family this Christmas Season sir.

Dwayne

Mine expired, they wanted a copy of my original test. I don't have because I sent it to them, how do you think I got the first, and renewed PAL?

The background check is done in a minimum of two places. The local criminal records check is done where you live. A national check is also done. The officer who performs the local background checks does this as a secondary duty. That is, only one or two officers conduct the checks at your local detachment when they can get around to it.

If your name is flagged, it must be investigated further. This can happen for a number of reasons. Something as simple as someone with the same name. As well, if your name is found entered in an investigation, or if someone has reported you. This last thing happens more than you would think. Divorces and separations can cause hiccups. If the flag comes from another jurisdiction, it can take time to be processed.

If you have moved within the past five years, an inquiry has to go to where you were prior to relocation.

These things will slow the process. Despite having computers, information is not shared with other agencies unless requested.

I have a clean record, in fact, I have never been convicted of anything more than a speeding ticket.

The last time I renewed my PAL, it took 7 months, most likely because I forgot to renew it, and it expired. Never again with the forgetting to renew it before it expires!

Definitely a PITA!

PS: Should have added, Don't Forget To Check Your Card, unless you are bored and feel like jumping through HOOPS lol. Only Discovered it when I went to buy ammo, very ANNOYING!

Mine expires on my birthday.

Luckily Dwayne my interactions with CRA are few and far between. Despite the fact we are paying far more for CRA the quality of service diminishes

I just had this discussion at my local gunstore, word is anywhere from 1 week to 1 year, for no apparent reason.
I renewed mine just over a year ago and it took 1 month, and I do have a record.

Honestly, I don't know what Canada's gun laws really are, where they begin and end, seems a massive gray area, for example..I have a friend who shot out a couple tires on a car, cops showed up the next morning, took buddies shotgun and ammo.
Then within a year got it all back and was issued his FAC, which is what it was at the time, Judge said he wasn't allowed to do that, I was there.

Then another good friend was involved in a violent encounter, spent 6 months in the joint, they took all his guns, he got them back. A short time later was issued his PAL and restricted, he owns a number of handguns and now prohibited AR's.

Having abit of trouble understanding how a Kodiak AR style rifle is cool and a AR isn't, they are basically the same thing.

I think the worst thing for firearms owners is to have an ex who holds a grudge, and a cell phone.

673;
Good morning my friend, I hope it's still warm up there as it is here and you're all well.

While I'm waiting for it to get a tad lighter out to start the yard work on the schedule, I'll throw out a story for the edification of our gentle readers which illustrates why none of us here can really know what Canada's gun laws are.

This goes back at least 15 years as some of the participants in the discussion have now passed on. As well please note I wasn't there, but was told about the incident by a passenger in the pickup.

Two fellows were gassing up their pickup in a larger center in the Cariboo, on their way north on a fall hunting trip.

An RCMP constable spotted firearms in the truck and despite the fact that one of the chaps was right there, decided she would attempt to charge them with unsafe storage.

The fellow who was there - so legally in control of said firearms - also happened to be a PAL/RPAL instructor - so he knew the law, attempted to articulate the law to the officer, but got nowhere.

She proceeded to lay the charge, they followed her to the RCMP detachment and all went in front of the officer in charge, likely a Sargent due to the size of the detachment, but that detail is a guess.

Initially the officer in charge took the side of the RCMP constable, but as I recall eventually the two hunters pointed out chapter and verse of the law in the act, whereupon they were free to go.

As an aside, that's why I've printed out the storage regs section and carry them in the pickup glove box. That was one recommendation that the NFA - was a member of them then and now am CCFR - had afterwards.

Anyways, the incident was discussed with a couple friends of mine, one who was management at Canada Customs and the other the Sargent of the local RCMP detachment.

The Sargent said more or less that in the same situation he would have supported his officer as well, despite the fact that she was clearly wrong.

Our friend from Canada Customs was less than charitable in his response to that, more or less saying if they weren't going to enforce the law as written they should find another line of work!

When discussing this incident with other friends who are LEO down in Vancouver, they said that they believed many or even most of their coworkers would have a stroke if they happened to be down at the 711 or Timmy's in Oliver or even Penticton an hour before daylight on any given day during hunting season.

Combine a LEO who doesn't know the law, isn't familiar with firearms or hunting and stir in a Crown Prosecutor who is of a similar bent and presto, we're in court despite the fact we've complied to the letter of the law.

Lastly and I know I've said this a few times, but when the feds rolled out the whole PAL program, I took the PAL instructor course from a PAL Master Instructor along with a bunch of other locals, including an RCMP officer who was sent by the RCMP since they didn't have the ability to train in house and back then the officers were required to have a PAL.

The RCMP constable was the least qualified to be there in terms of firearms knowledge, by a long, long ways. That wasn't just my opinion either as the Master Instructor and I chatted about that years later at the gun show.

All the best to you all this Christmas Season.

Dwayne

That is a good tip on printing the safe storage regs and having them with you as the Mounties dont know what the laws actually are, they know less than me lol.

Good reminder indeed. I need to print a recent copy as the one I have in the truck is from the era of that particular incident.

Ref renewal times: I sent my renewal in the 2nd of Aug this year as I had heard the horror stories of up to a year wait. Being as I do some gun writing on the side, I could only imagine being in the middle of a project, reviewing a shotgun for example, only to have my RPAL expire while in possession of a review piece. Can't work with it, can't legally return it to the supplier etc. Not wanting to find out the hard way, my renewal went in about 9 months early. Imagine my surprise when I receive the brownish envelope from the RCMP before the end of Aug. Wondering what I forgot to send in, I opened it up find my renewed RPAL! The fee hadn't even shown up on my CC statement yet. I should have bought a lottery ticket that day!

My son also had a fast turn around on his renewal of a regular PAL this fall. He is separated from his longtime lady friend but they do get along so no issues. She is also a PAL holder and needs his sig to renew. Kicker on his though, he was within 3 weeks of expiry when he sent it in. He waited so as to change his address at the same time as he just bought a house. I was going to hold his guns till his PAL came through: took 5 weeks to arrive at his new address. We are both located in Alberta but I don't know if that makes much difference really.
Jeff

Good evening, Jeff. Your post is an excellent example of what to believe or not to believe when reading the Internet. Young or old, go to any hunting site and you will read endless complaints about the police, the federal government, processing times and other related topics. All of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

For example, should a grumpy old guy start a thread and complain about how badly he was treated by the RCMP or how poorly designed the process was, you may only be getting part of the story. People do not like to admit that they screwed up. Your statement is key.

"...my renewal went in about 9 months early."

Give the Mounties the time they need.

The flip side may be, did the individual send it in on time? Did he completely fill out the form? Was it legible? Were his answers truthful? Did he provide a proper picture? Was payment included? Sometimes we don't get the whole story. People love to complain about governments and bureaucracies.

There aren't any stats published of which I'm aware, but I suspect most initial applications and renewals are processed efficiently. It's just not fun to say everything went smoothly.

My daughters took around 4 months. It was a new minor application. She’s has it for 7/8 months now.

The Mounties have never been a model example of efficiency and are not being held accountable by anyone. One only has look at how it treats its own employees and how after decades of abuse and endless calls for organizational change, nothing has happened.

On my initial PAL application, called an FAC at the time, one question asked where I was born. I wrote in the appropriate box, the city, Province and Country, Canada, where I was born. The following question asked if I was not born in Canada what country was I born in, in that box I wrote “not applicable”. My application was rejected and returned to be corrected in a set amount of days. The problem- I had to write in the second box that I was born in Canada. I kid you not. Talk about bureaucratic inefficiency. Don’t tell me about the RCMP doing a great job supporting legal gun owners.

Nick

If someone is overly sensitive and hurt easily stop reading now.

My friend, a young man of 19 at the time was out shooting coyotes with another young man of the same age.
At the end of the day on the way home they went through a road check, the Mountie saw their rifles and they were scary black, dressed in camo, he jumped back and yelled "they have guns" shtf, they made the 2 young men get out, the one Mountie threw my friends rifle onto the hood of the truck, scratching badly a brand new expensive scope he had just received for Christmas.

I have dropped, dragged, fell on, slid down the slope my rifle and not damaged the way this scope was marred.

They said coyotes weren't open to shoot (they were) they said unsafe storage, they needed trigger locks (they dont) finally they called the Conservation officer and he said they were perfectly legal.
I have had similar incidents twice lol.

My young friend shortly after this incident went to the RCMP depot and is now a Mountie lol, I did his referral, and a good Mountie he is, I knew he would be, he knows the law. Many/most Mounties simply are not aware of firearms laws.

Bad story with a great ending 673, you must be proud of your friend. Did he sue for damages on his scope? I would have.

I had two RCMP officers pull their guns on me when I was parked on the side of the road one night. I was not scared until I saw that the officer pointing his handgun at me was shaking uncontrollably, not fun and a real WTF BUDDY moment!

There are good cops and bad cops, I'll bet your friend is an excellent officer.

Yes Killerbee, my friend is an exellent Officer and I have known him since he was 4 years old, very proud of him.

On the scope.........he did file a complaint, when they followed up a short time later the Officer said that "scopes are tough" and used to that kind of abuse, which they are. He received no Apology.

No one is accountable, and I feel more secure with a group of HA, than I do a group of Mounties, and my Dad was involved in law enforcement. I have great respect for the RCMP, just don't get on the wrong side.

I’ve never had any problems with the Mounties. Something to keep in mind, this Canadian fire arms office in Mirrimishi NB is the single place in the country that handles licensing for all Canadian firearm owners. One facility for the entire country. They’re busy. In the states they do it state by state. In Canada, it’s done at the federal level.

Then open 2 facilities.

673;
Good morning my friend, I hope you're all having a mild morning up there too and all is well with your fine family.

While I've told this one before, hopefully I can be forgiven for repeating it and even more hopefully I don't change the details enough to bugger it up - but and nonetheless...

In the dark days of the long gun registry, I'd picked up a .250AI built by a local very talented amateur gunsmith who'd passed on, so a buddy was helping the widow get rid of the collection and projects both finished and sorta finished.

Since we had to phone in the transaction to Miramichi, I did that and got some nice lady with an East Coast sort of accent that we don't hear that often in the land of fruits and nuts we call home.

At that time they wanted the barrel length and all the details, so I informed her that it was a .250AI with serial number etc., etc. on this type of action and she stopped me mid sentence.

"That's the wrong cartridge designation sir", she said, "I've got it as a .300 Savage"

My reply was, "It's most definitely a .250 Ackley Improved, with a 40° shoulder, not the 28° shoulder, would you like to know the barrel maker?"

She then said something about me having to take it to the local firearms verifier and it was my turn to stop her in mid sentence with, "Sorry ma'am, I happen to have turned down that position, know the verifier very well and can assure you this is what I am telling you it is. Further more, you do realize that rifle barrels are just screwed in, right? They have told you that have they not? We can change them out just like snow tires"

Her response was a unique combination that contained some unrepeatable words, sort of like when some of the Newfoundland co-workers would cuss, but different than that even.

Again, we don't cuss in those combinations out here in the savage west apparently, mostly our cussing deals with the article in question procreating, with the possibility that a deity has condemned it before and during the procreation process, but we're less colorful for sure.

Anyways, I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall during the coffee break out in Miramichi when she informed her fellow firearms registry people there were BC rednecks changing gun barrels like snow tires!

Oh and by the by 673, buddy that I bought it from had a LA 700 that we'd fitted at least 4 and perhaps I'm forgetting one or more different Remington take off barrels on and they head spaced out fine. The writing and sight holes in the barrel didn't line up on them, but the head space was fine and I shot them with him without incident.

He of course thought my conversation with the lady in New Brunswick was humorous too.

That buddy has been gone for years now 673, thanks kindly for making me recall him on this still, misty Okanagan morning. Willy and I had some grand visits over the years and he was one of a kind.

All the best to you all this Christmas.

Dwayne

35 million Canadians; 350 million Americans

And 52 states.

Angus Reid estimates that there are only 4 million firearm owners in Canada. I don’t know how accurate that statistic is. I saw a recent post somewhere here on the Fire that placed US gun owner ship at over fifty percent. That would equate to 175 million gun owners in the US. Canadian gun owners are definitely a minority. It’s no wonder the US needs state operated gun licensing facilities.

Nick

If a gun owner only has a couple firearms and they are now "prohibited", then why bother with a PAL, just move forward with a GFY?

Nick;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope all is well with you folks out east this morning.

With the understanding and clear as can be statement up front that all I am going to suggest hence forward is what I hear and not what I have direct knowledge of - here goes.

When the Libs did the first registry of long guns, the number of total firearms which the government floated as being in circulation was much disputed - as in very much.

Independent estimates were as high as 15 to 20 million firearms and they were at 10 million - ish.

Why they would do that is anyone's guess, but I would make the observation that if they had say 2 million firearms registered, the lower the overall number they come up with, the better the compliance looks like.

While I used to participate in some phone and online polling, I quit years ago when it became obvious to me that the questions were constructed in such a way as to produce a very specific and directed outcome.

At that stage in my working life, I was involved in an ISO type certification program in a manufacturing shop, where we had to make manuals for all tasks. We soon learned that we needed to ask very specific questions, in order to get the information that we needed to write the manual which would get us the certification.

Now those questions and the resulting manual may or may not have had anything to do with milking chickens in January when it's so cold that the molasses in your engine block freezes...... but we made manuals and got certified.....

As well during that time in my work, I was responsible for tracking all sorts of statistics in the plant from work station throughput values, waste calculations, cost of goods, cost of labour, cost of toilet paper, etc. All that to say I could do flow charts, pie graphs and multi linked Excel spreadsheets until the cows came home and then some.

So to bring that thought full circle, today I do not do any polls and do not know anyone who does.

If then we have a situation where a certain percentage of a group/society declines to participate in a poll and we do not know how significant that percentage is, the question has to be asked how accurate the poll can possibly be.

Lastly, from chatting with coworkers and friends who have ties to different ethnic communities and LEO, there absolutely are some groups which are really quite well armed that the government nor their bought and paid for legacy media will even whisper about. We are left to speculate why that all is - both why the groups feel the need to be armed and the fact nobody will talk about it.

Anyways sir, I believe it was Mark Twain who suggested something like "There are lies, then damned lies and then there are statistics".

As a former and now reformed statistic maker, that's my thoughts on stats, but as always there's a bunch of horse trails leading to Mecca and all that I'm saying is that's the one I took.

All the best to you all, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Dwayne

If one looks at hunting licenses in BC, there are about 100,000 are sold each year out of a population of 3 million. That number has remained pretty constant for the last couple of decades. Those are pretty rough numbers, but you get the idea.

downwindtracker;
Good morning to you sir, I hope the day in your part of the coast is getting decent weather.

Again being perfectly transparent, I have no direct knowledge of the groups or individuals which I mentioned, but the firearms they had were not for hunting specifically.

Also, some of the groups do not require hunting licenses even if they were inclined to use whatever it was they had in possession for that purpose.

For sure it could be that the LEO and the other folks were just telling me stories or even outright fabrications, I do not know.

We in the hunting and sport shooting community are fairly easy to keep track of since we color inside the lines.

Groups like the NFA, CCFR and even BCWF - which I'm a former member of the first and current of both second and third, advocate on behalf of that group.

My point, albeit poorly made, is that there are an unknown number of "others" when it comes to firearms and firearms owners.

All the best to you all, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Dwayne

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Hi Dwayne,

I hope that you are doing well on this the shortest day of the year. It’s all downhill from here on in. Well, for us in eastern Ontario the worst of winter has yet to settle in. We aren’t all living in the Banana belt of Canada.

I do suspect that there are more than 4 million gun owners in Canada and I don’t know how Angus and Reid came up with that figure. I’ll look into it further. I do, as you mentioned, find any statistics from the current government suspect at best and doubly so when it relates to firearms. Thanks for your thoughts on this and may you and yours have a merry Christmas.

Nick

Nick;
Thanks for the reply and Christmas wishes sir, much appreciated for both.

One of my major issues with any poll would be that the respondent in some cases is being asked questions which may incriminate them in the future if not the present.

Seeing as how most folks can see legal firearm owners have been under attack by the current federal government and for that matter the paid propaganda arm of same, our legacy media, I cannot imagine what would entice me to admit to a total stranger on the phone or online that I owned firearms.

Now before someone points out the irony of that statement since I am doing that on a daily basis - they are correct I am - but - I have been and remain an active participant in the "gun lobby" for more than 40 years. Unpaid of course Nick, but I've been writing letters, teaching new shooters, active in gun clubs and giving statements to local media for the last 2/3 of my life.

If on the other hand a person say still is in possession of firearms but for whatever cause they no longer possess a PAL etc., if they were wise they'd not admit to owning any.

The governments for sure - we fervently hope at any rate - can access how many PAL/RPAL holders are still alive today, as they can access how many hunting licenses are sold, but again, that's not necessarily all the firearm owners or hunters either for that matter.

How many are missing from those numbers are the unknown.

For lack of a better example, it's somewhat like the feds pulling numbers out of the sky when they legalized cannabis products, because honestly they had less than zero clue how many users there were out there.

On that subject, they still have the same grasp on how many are out there if our BC grey market is any indication, but that's another topic for another day.

All the best to you all this Christmas again.

Dwayne

Pardon my ignorant hijack, but do any of you friendly northern neighbors know of an American getting a PAL? I want to start coming to hunting in Canada regularly and might consider getting some property up there. If that comes to pass, I have read that going over the border with a PAL makes the process very easy, but I believe that information is BT (before Trudeau). Can the whole process of a hunting license, gun permit and PAL all be done over a long weekend? I don’t have any interest in a restricted gun but if I’m there doing all the classes and paperwork, might as well get everything I can.

Thanks
Micky

micky;
Good morning to you sir, I hope that this Christmas Eve morning has been good to you all thus far.

The only poster here that I know is a US citizen with a PAL is wabigoon, so that'd be a start perhaps?

The PAL is a Canada wide process and covers you all across the country.

Hunting licenses are provincially regulated and there will be different requirements for each province.

Regarding a gun permit, I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but again if it's the paperwork required when you cross the border, that'd be federal both coming into Canada and whatever documents you're required to have re-entering the US.

My thought would be to find a PAL instructor in the province you're likely to spend the most time hunting in, drop them an email and go from there.

Hope that helped.

Merry Christmas to you all.

Dwayne

Mickey, I had a PAL, and renewed it. The last time the RCMP wanted my original test. I sent it to them, what gives?
I'll have to take the test again.

Poor wording on my part. Is there a difference between the courses for no. Restricted, restricted, safety and PAL? Is there a way to get all of that during a couple days is what I’m hoping.

Renewals for the people I regularly shoot with have varied from 2 weeks to over 1 1/2 years. No real differences in any applications --- no divorces or failed business or falling out with the law.

Mine was 3 weeks, my wifes 14 months, our sons 2 weeks, my one hunting partner 8 months. No consistency.

If you are a trustworthy citizen and renew over the internet, it only takes 17 days overn the Christmas season.

As a handgun owner, you also need to send in your gun club membership. That is what usually screws up us Albertans.

Trustworthy??? Maybe that’s what made it take so long. 😂