Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors What m70 barrel contour ?

I have a LH M70 action and a Rimrock/Borden stock. I want to build a .257 Wthby hunting rifle 26".
Any idea what barrel contour would be best to build a well balanced rifle?

You guys that have Rimrock stocked M70's any idea what contour and barrel length you are using and how do they balance?

Hal

Probably not a lot of guys shooting the 257 WBY in a model 70. Personally I would not go with a real heavy contour barrel. It's just not needed on a nice hunting weight rifle. I wouldn't go 26" either. That's a hell no on the 26" barrel length for a hunting rifle. Unless you are just plopping it down in front of you and not walking anywhere with it. I still hunt, so packing a rifle is a must. I also do not use a sling much, if any at all when I'm hunting. In the thick areas, you need to be able to get a shot off in a hurry. So balance is key for me. I like a rifle to balance well when it's being carried. Sometimes I'll f around and carry my rifle with 1 finger, to see how well it balances. Sounds funny, but I like well balanced lightweight rifles. The model 70's are no exception to that either, when you couple them with the rifle barrel and stock. Your rimrock, I'm assuming is a Borden, which is similar to the Pacific Research. Correct me if I'm wrong.

With a Pacific Research stocked model 70, I'd expect the rifle to weigh sub 7 pounds before you add a scope:


This rifle weighs 7 pounds on the nose, with it's 24" sporter weight contour barrel. If I had to pick a contour, I'd go even lighter If I was rebarreling it. That would be my choice. Something like a long shank fwt contour. Brux "0" contour comes to mind. That was one of Bobin's favorites. A lot of guys f up a good rifle with too heavy of a barrel. The quality of the barrel is more of a factor, than going with a real heavy weight.

I’d use a #2 like a Douglas, Krieger, etc, featherweight shank it and probably make it 24” myself.

BSA thanks for the reply and info.
Yes my Rimrock is a Borden. My LH M70 is a .338 classic sporter with a B&L 3x9 Elite in Burris 2 piece mounts and a wood stock. The barrel is 26" and measures .585 at the end and .630 at 24". As it sets it weighs 9lb 3 oz.
The Rimrock stock with pad weighs 1lb 13oz.

I'll have to weigh everything when I take the rifle apart.
When I rebarrel it I want it to be well balanced.
If a rifle isn't balanced,it's just a club that shoots. Depending on it's intended use.

BSA. & beretzs thanks for your thoughts on contours.

Hal

I really like those stocks. Very nice ergo's. I am surprised about the weight though. Seems heavy. I don't know if the Borden Rimrocks had a different fill material than the Pacific Research stocks? AKWolverine may know the answer to that one.

The rifle I showed in my first post:


That is almost too light for a 300WBY, but for a hunting rifle it works great. I don't shoot it much off the bench though. If you've been around here since 2011, you probably remember ol Bob (BobinNH). In my post, I was just repeating how he liked them. He tended to go with a pretty lightweight contour, as he did not like a barrel heavy rifle. beretzs and I talked to Bob a lot, and he even has a few of Bob's rifles. I think Bob liked the featherweight barrel profile the best, and he knew that the pre 64 fwt's shot lights out, when properly glass bedded. I've also seen many a skinny barrel shoot lights out as well. I have a few fwt's right now that are shooters. Some would call them "scary accurate" even.

If you do a search on model 70 barrel contours here, you'll find Bobin talking about his favorites. There is a guy here (or used to be here) with a screen name of Utah708. He had a special barrel contour with a longer shank than a fwt, but the barrel was skinny like a fwt barrel. From the sounds of it, Brux kept that profile in their files, but you had to ask for it and give them his name. I haven't seen Utah post here in a while, but if he responds, maybe he can help you out with that?

Thanks for the reply. I'll have to do more research.
What's the best way to bed a light barreled rifle ? What the best bedding compound to use to keep the weight down?
I'll re weigh the Rimrock stock.


Hal

I’d float it first. If it needs pressure you can add it later.

I re weighed my M70 Rimrock it weighs 1lb 14oz
I have a Rimrock for a Rem 700, it weighs 1lb 13 oz.

Are all recoil pad about the same weight or do they make some good light weight pad?
Hal

As far as bedding compound, I haven't noticed any weight difference using gray marinetex vs pro-bed. Devcon might be heavier due to the steel content. I'm not sure it's a great place to save weight anyway. My stocks seem to maybe gain one ounce, often less, after bedding.

Recoil pads are usually a good place to save weight. Most 1" decelerator pads have a metal plate and weigh around 5 ounces or a little more. A 1" microcell pad weighs 2 ounces. Occasionally you will come across a decelerator without the steel plate but they are not that common. So you can probably save 3-4 ounces there.

If you are using factory steel bottom metal you can save 4 ounces going to aluminum bottom metal from PTG. It will require some inletting work if you are currently running two-piece bottom metal.

So if you're running an old school recoil pad and steel bottom metal, you can maybe cut 7-8 ounces.


I've built a few rifles with 26" #1 contour barrels. They shoot an dhandle great. Lilja seems to be one of the few places that will make you a stainless barrel in such a skinny contour. Definitely ask the builder to keep the shank short.

Those weights are consistent with what I have seen. I usually figure around 28 ounces. However, there was quite a bit of variation and some of the earlier Pacific research models do seem to be a little lighter. I don’t know if it was a fill issue or a fiberglass issue, but I have seen them as light as 24–25 ounces. I have also seen the camo colored models weigh in excess of 30 ounces. That cloth material they used for the camo really increased the weight.

AK
Both my M70 & Rem 700 stocks are camo so that is probably where the extra weight comes from.

TX
I'll have to check into recoil pads and weight. Both the Rimrock stocks have "Rimrock" branded recoil pads.I don't know who made the pads for Borden.
I'm not sure how old the pads are and if they loose their flexibility over time.

How much lighter are the m70 actions with the cloverleaf tangs than the later m70 actions, a ounce or two?

Hal

I have two Pacific Research stocks waiting on employment. Pre 64 Model 70 weighs 24.4 oz., a Model 700 weighs 26.8 oz. Both with 1 " pads and swivel studs.

I use Devcon 10110. I'd also freefloat the barrel completely. Making sure you have a generous freefloat. I believe my Pacific Research weighs close to 26 oz's. Also, the Pachmayr Decelerator does not weigh as much as what was quoted. Unless they leave it big. Generally on a Winchester model 70, I'm removing quite a bit of material:


Also, when glass bedding the model 70, I bed at the tang, and at the recoil lug. Those are your 2 points of contact. That's all you need. Generally most model 70's like their barrels to be completely freefloating. That means nothing under the chamber. I've actually had to relieve some bedding under the chamber areas of some so called gunsmiths bedding jobs to make the rifles shoot right. Again, it's also critical to bed the rear tang as well. Some guys/smiths don't bed that area, and it can create issues and accuracy problems.

Don't forget to bed the bottom metal.

That's not as critical. The main thing is it fits well in the inletting. If not, bed it. My rifles barreled actions basically snap down into the stock. That is the most critical aspect that some don't get. I've said this before, buy I could probably shoot my rifles without any bottom metal and no action screws. Keeping in mind, back in the day benchresters used to glue their barreled actions into the stocks. Same basic principal, but I can remove them from the stock. Got to pop them out though, with the right technique.

The metalwork is already out of the stock, you have bedding material on hand, why wouldn't you do the bottom end? Small details tend to have a cumulative effect.

BSA

Some of the BR gunsmiths still glue the actions in. It keeps the bedding from getting screwed up from taking the action in and out of the stock.

If you want to see some of the "new school stuff" check out Longrifleinc.com web site. Blueprinting a M70 action.
Chad does some of the finest work. Check out his bedding jobs.

Hal

I hear glue ins are still done for benchrest and I'd assume they also effectively stiffen the action. Long range prone rifle actions are often glued into tube gun stocks which I hear really adds stiffness to a Remington 700 although I haven't felt it needed for my solid bottomed 40X in its Eliseo (yet). My M70 Palma rifle has been converted to solid bottom with an added bedding screw which really locks it down.



One thing I've noticed is that with a solid bedding job the screws go from no load to fully torqued in only about 1/8 turn.

Mike

Can you tell me a little more about what you are doing with that action? Make it a solid bottom than add holes ? The center one is a bedding screw, what are the larger holes for ?
What trigger is that?

Hal

The holes were to help it make weight for what was the ICFRA (International Fullbore) requirement at the time. That weight limit has since been raised, figures. 🙄

The trigger is an Anschutz 5018 which is from one of their small bore rifles but can be modified to work on an M70. It is a two stage with an amazing amount of adjust-ability.