Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Can't stand the Neo-Con Swamp Bitch, but,

Really? Show me that for all eleven states.

Regardless why the south succeeded the southern states voted for it as was there right. Can anyone honestly say they don’t believe the south had the right to succeed ? If so then you absolutely don’t believe the Declaration of Independence.

It's no different than today really.

There is a whole class of people who control the media who are not honest and tramples on individual rights and freedoms for power and greed.

Excessive taxation. No representation.

Excessive and different export tariffs on their goods in relation to what northern states were paying to help pay the country out of debt. Plus, the union was expanding to the west and needed the coal and other natural resources that were more abundant in the south. Pennsylvania had coal and oil, but the majority of coal at the time were in the confederate states (Ky, Va, WV) along the Appalachians. Like it or not, but without coal and other natural resources, their plan to go from sea to shining sea wouldn't have happened the way it did. No coal, no steel production. Wood wouldn't get hot enough normally. Coal powered those steam engines. As power plants started to come online after the war, coal was better and cheaper at heating up water to make steam to turn those turbines.

Plus the federal government was in great debt due to purchasing a lot of the continent from other countries who by international law had laid claims to it by way of "discovering" it. Which opens up a whole other can of worms that if that were true it should all revert back to whichever native American tribe had called that land their home for thousands of years prior to those european ships putting out anchor here. And Christopher Columbus has been proven countless times to have not been the one to discover America. That's just more "history book" lies that you've been fed your whole lives.

And of course, slavery sucked. Not that it had never existed in the northern states too. While it had been abolished well prior to the 1860's, it had been rampant at the time of the founding of the country and even before really. There were more slaves entered the country through NY City than through Charleston SC. But, history teachers don't like to touch on that at all. It's all the souths fault for telling fedgov to get fu<'d

And when there is another civil war and the commies win it, they’ll make the history say they fought against the forces of racism and white supremacy who were trying to destroy democracy. And they’ll cherry pick sources saying as much and they’ll ignore and twist every other issue to fit that narrative. And the idiots on the Campfire equivalent will lap it up and run around congratulating themselves on how the “good guys” won another one.

Precisely. History is written by the victors, every single time.

You can not fix nigra.

"Also ran"....what? And whether one believes it was the primary reason or not, to not mention it as a huge contributing factor at a 2023 town hall reeked of stupidity.

Does anyone truly believe that the men of the North joined in droves to free the slaves? They wouldn’t do it today and they sure as hell didn’t do it then.

I can’t stand the Neocon either however she isn’t wrong. True then as today and forever...Follow the Money.

Ukraine got the cheapest (to them) defense budget in history by simply having Romney, Kerry, Pelosi and Bidet family members on the payrolls. Follow the money always bares the truth. Climate research, Wuhan Flu...pick anything and find out where it was funded.

True in the Civil War to today. Truth be told probably forever

Just man up and own it.

Some of the last states to secede didn’t bother to right declaration for their secession, since they only would have been repeating what the other states had already said. They laid out very clearly that slavery was the issue. Most of the other excuses for secession were made up after the fact.

Jeff Obama is brain damaged. That

That’s some stellar research and documentation you’ve got going there.

You're absolutely right, jorge. Still pushing that slavery bs.

Abraham Lincoln The Racist Marxist didn't bring up slavery until the GAR was on the ropes and he wrote the Emancipation Proclamation. It was a last ditch maneuver to turn the tide against the CSA remaining a free nation.

It's historical fact. Read the Lincoln-Douglas debates. They are dominated by the question of whether or not to allow slavery in the territories. The Republican Party was specifically founded to combat the "twin relics of barbarism"---Abrahamic Polygamy and Chattel Slavery because they were radically at odds with the intent of the Founders and specifically, extending slavery into the new territories was specifically contrary to the intent of the Founders. Bear in mind: it was Democrats who sought to confound the intent of the Founders in 1860 as they continue to do today. The Republican Party Platform of 1860 is set out below (for the benefit of the historically illiterate, of which there are plenty on this forum.)

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Republican Party Platform of 1860
May 17, 1860
Resolved, That we, the delegated representatives of the Republican electors of the United States in Convention assembled, in discharge of the duty we owe to our constituents and our country, unite in the following declarations:

1. That the history of the nation during the last four years, has fully established the propriety and necessity of the organization and perpetuation of the Republican party, and that the causes which called it into existence are permanent in their nature, and now, more than ever before, demand its peaceful and constitutional triumph.

2. That the maintenance of the principles promulgated in the Declaration of Independence and embodied in the Federal Constitution, "That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness; that to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed," is essential to the preservation of our Republican institutions; and that the Federal Constitution, the Rights of the States, and the Union of the States must and shall be preserved.

3. That to the Union of the States this nation owes its unprecedented increase in population, its surprising development of material resources, its rapid augmentation of wealth, its happiness at home and its honor abroad; and we hold in abhorrence all schemes for disunion, come from whatever source they may. And we congratulate the country that no Republican member of Congress has uttered or countenanced the threats of disunion so often made by Democratic members, without rebuke and with applause from their political associates; and we denounce those threats of disunion, in case of a popular overthrow of their ascendency as denying the vital principles of a free government, and as an avowal of contemplated treason, which it is the imperative duty of an indignant people sternly to rebuke and forever silence.

4. That the maintenance inviolate of the rights of the states, and especially the right of each state to order and control its own domestic institutions according to its own judgment exclusively, is essential to that balance of powers on which the perfection and endurance of our political fabric depends; and we denounce the lawless invasion by armed force of the soil of any state or territory, no matter under what pretext, as among the gravest of crimes.

5. That the present Democratic Administration has far exceeded our worst apprehensions, in its measureless subserviency to the exactions of a sectional interest, as especially evinced in its desperate exertions to force the infamous Lecompton Constitution upon the protesting people of Kansas; in construing the personal relations between master and servant to involve an unqualified property in persons; in its attempted enforcement everywhere, on land and sea, through the intervention of Congress and of the Federal Courts of the extreme pretensions of a purely local interest; and in its general and unvarying abuse of the power intrusted to it by a confiding people.

6. That the people justly view with alarm the reckless extravagance which pervades every department of the Federal Government; that a return to rigid economy and accountability is indispensable to arrest the systematic plunder of the public treasury by favored partisans; while the recent startling developments of frauds and corruptions at the Federal metropolis, show that an entire change of administration is imperatively demanded.

7. That the new dogma that the Constitution, of its own force, carries slavery into any or all of the territories of the United States, is a dangerous political heresy, at variance with the explicit provisions of that instrument itself, with contemporaneous exposition, and with legislative and judicial precedent; is revolutionary in its tendency, and subversive of the peace and harmony of the country.

8. That the normal condition of all the territory of the United States is that of freedom: That, as our Republican fathers, when they had abolished slavery in all our national territory, ordained that "no persons should be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law," it becomes our duty, by legislation, whenever such legislation is necessary, to maintain this provision of the Constitution against all attempts to violate it; and we deny the authority of Congress, of a territorial legislature, or of any individuals, to give legal existence to slavery in any territory of the United States.

9. That we brand the recent reopening of the African slave trade, under the cover of our national flag, aided by perversions of judicial power, as a crime against humanity and a burning shame to our country and age; and we call upon Congress to take prompt and efficient measures for the total and final suppression of that execrable traffic

10. That in the recent vetoes, by their Federal Governors, of the acts of the legislatures of Kansas and Nebraska, prohibiting slavery in those territories, we find a practical illustration of the boasted Democratic principle of Non-Intervention and Popular Sovereignty, embodied in the Kansas-Nebraska Bill, and a demonstration of the deception and fraud involved therein.

11. That Kansas should, of right, be immediately admitted as a state under the Constitution recently formed and adopted by her people, and accepted by the House of Representatives.

12. That, while providing revenue for the support of the general government by duties upon imports, sound policy requires such an adjustment of these imports as to encourage the development of the industrial interests of the whole country; and we commend that policy of national exchanges, which secures to the workingmen liberal wages, to agriculture remunerative prices, to mechanics and manufacturers an adequate reward for their skill, labor, and enterprise, and to the nation commercial prosperity and independence.

13. That we protest against any sale or alienation to others of the public lands held by actual settlers, and against any view of the free-homestead policy which regards the settlers as paupers or suppliants for public bounty; and we demand the passage by Congress of the complete and satisfactory homestead measure which has already passed the House.

14. That the Republican party is opposed to any change in our naturalization laws or any state legislation by which the rights of citizens hitherto accorded to immigrants from foreign lands shall be abridged or impaired; and in favor of giving a full and efficient protection to the rights of all classes of citizens, whether native or naturalized, both at home and abroad.

15. That appropriations by Congress for river and harbor improvements of a national character, required for the accommodation and security of an existing commerce, are authorized by the Constitution, and justified by the obligation of Government to protect the lives and property of its citizens.

16. That a railroad to the Pacific Ocean is imperatively demanded by the interests of the whole country; that the federal government ought to render immediate and efficient aid in its construction; and that, as preliminary thereto, a daily overland mail should be promptly established.

17. Finally, having thus set forth our distinctive principles and views, we invite the co-operation of all citizens, however differing on other questions, who substantially agree with us in their affirmance and support.

APP Note: The Official Proceedings of the 1860 Republican National Convention indicates that the platform was announced and read on the second day of the convention (May 17, 1860).

Not where I grew up.

Because the debates expose the truth. Come on man!

I’m sure the debate supercharged the farm boy from PA to go join up and fight the good fight. Same same for the NYC cobblers son.

We watch debates live and don’t believe 80% of what is said. You believe the printed excerpts of said debates motivated the Ohio Valley young men to rally for Lincoln?

You wasted a lot of time and cut and paste. Proving nothing. The northern states wanted the economic input from the southern states. When they were refused that, They came up with all of your cut and paste. And AFTER THAT, the effort against slavery became virtuous... and convenient.

Slavery was the root cause of secession for the South, and secession was the cause of the war for the North. That's where the issue lies. For the South, it WAS 100% about keeping slavery alive. For the North, it was 100% about keeping the tax base that was the South. It wasn't until Northen sentiment for the war started to sour that the "moral" issue of slavery became their rally point.