Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors M70 Cheat Sheet

Curious - is there an easy reference or cheat sheet for M70s?

Clearly we're all aware of the p64s being CRF. It's the new M70CRF actions that I'd like to know if there's a cheat sheet for.

What are the "generations", what makes one better than the other, and how does one tell this is X and that is Y when it comes to post 64 but CRF M70 actions?

Bonus points if said cheat sheet/resource also breaks down the magazine length available for each.

Such a critter exist? (I have a feeling a grandchild is coming in the next 5 years, the idea of squirreling away a good action between now/then to build something for the kid is appealing NOW because I don't know it will be cheaper in 5-7 years)

TIA

You want to build a new rifle? I'd just buy a good classic, or 2 and rock on. 5 or 6 digit classic would be my preference when looking/buying. If it absolutely has to be a CRF. I wouldn't waste my time with a Browning.

Is there a classic that is better? I read things like BACO and G suffix etc. BACO = Browning?

The only Browning I'd ever consider buying - EVER is a shotgun O/U.

I'm trying to understand how to identify the "right classic" if that makes sense.

Essentially - I had the idea that I'd like to put together something like CBB15's in the deerhunting forum.



Kind of the thought has changed to putting it together for my son, not grandchild.

1. When you become a dad, we're often forgotten about when it happens. So a gift to him, something really fine and nice as a way to say "I know the sacrifices you'll be making over the coming years for family. This isn't something you'll likely do for yourself so I'm doing it for you"
2. I'm a huge believer in a child's first rifle being something he/she picks out with their father. Together. I get sentimental about things from my grandparents but it's not the same as something from dad. So my son should get to do that with his son, like I did him.

That is a tough one Teal. They made whole books about the darned things.

Pre 64's, were any rifle made before the Post 1964 Push Feed Rifles. Classics came after Winchester returned to the CRF action in/around 1992. They were G serial numbers as well. All Classics had the standard great Pre 64 triggers.

The latest Model is a match to the Classic generally, but I have found them to be smoother and better machined than most all of the Classics I have owned and handled. Some were made in SC and now they are assembled in Portugal. Great actions with good triggers. Those rifles have a 35 starter as the serial number (Don't hold me to that).

Magazines in the Classics were about 2.9"ish for the short actions like a 7-08, 308, etc. 30-06 class along with Rem and Win Mags were 3.4" and the magnum action is 3.6". All of the guns can be modded to take a longer mag cartridge with a little parts swapping and such.

I know I missed a ton of stuff, but generally I have seen some nice rifles made off the new action and while people moan about the new trigger I haven't seen one go bad yet and a 5 dollar spring will make them quite decent. If you hate that, Timney makes a replacement.

I'd easily build off a new 70 action. The ones I have been around required little to no machine work to be square and ready. Have not seen (but paid for the difference) on Classics to be squared up.

Lots of great intel about 70's on here. I think what're you're doing is darned fine of you.

I hear you about getting sentimental. But we all see that differently. I was just happy to get a sporterized m1917 from my dad on Christmas morning when I was 12. A winchester model 70 would definitely be cream of the crop. Especially one with a beautiful wood stock like the one pictured. Teach him how to take excellent care of it, to clean it properly, and maybe even how to adjust the trigger, mount the scope, get it dialed in and then practice the fundamentals of marksmanship. And then most importantly gun safety, and how to hunt. I get it. Good on you Teal.

It’d be a hell of a lot of simpler to post rifles up here and let the experts tell you what it is. There’s several iterations of model 70. I owned xtr featherweights and a BACO featherweight. I got rid of them all and was gonna save the BACO ,but decided to sell it too. I thought it was the best all around of those two.

Thanks - this is what I'm looking for. They're not uber popular in my area and thus, I don't get a chance to see a ton of them to peruse. I think the donor will come off the net so I need to have a general idea of how to select good/bad so to speak. Unless the general idea is - "CRF actions, be it p64 or not are generally all decent and a good choice"

The only pre-64's I have available to me is a Win94 and the only M70 I have in the case is a rather accurate PF Coyote in 22-25. Just weighs a ton and I prefer the classic CRF myself.

Yeah - I get that too. I can't put my sentimentality on a child not even conceived yet. Boy's getting married this September. I just remember bugging my dad to head to the gun store once a week for about 2 years before I picked out my first deer rifle. M77 in 30-06 for 368 bucks, give or take. Meant a pile to me.

Finding a chunk of wood like that is also going to take some time. IMO - that's absolutely perfect for what I'd want for me.

BACO Rifles









Classic Rifles








P64







[img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/ww233/beretzs/IMG_9869.jpeg[/img]



Those might help some to give you an idea of what you're looking at. Ask away, no question will hurt my feelers. Always glad to help, especially for this cause.

For sure, the classiest is the P64 (my opinion). The easiest is a FN BACO, but honestly, if you're building it, the difference between any of them won't be much.

That last bit basically is it I think. I'm building - just looking for an appropriate action, CRF from Winchester rust blue with a good barrel and likely in 30-06 because that's generationally safe. Can't assume reloading or ammo etc in the future. We might lose it all but the 30-06 will be the last to go.

Building just for me - I'd do another 7-08 but that's a reloader's cartridge IMO. Can't put that on them.

Give me Bobs old 270 over any of those any day of the week and twice on Sunday..

I think you'll have a perfect rifle. I'd do a 270 Winchester myself, but you aren't wrong..

Honestly, if you are doing a 30-06 for your boy, I'd scrub classifieds for a Pre 64 30-06 Featherweight barreled action and put it in the best piece of wood you can find. I'd almost bet you a dollar, beer, etc that it will shoot and you're not likley to put a better barrel on it than they came with if you keep the early to mid 50's guns. PM Gunner, he has a 270 like such and its essentially as come from the factory 270 with an amazing piece of wood on it.

His old P64 with the PoundR and 0 Krieger with the S&B Summit on it?

Teal, it might help if getting an excellent donor rifle from someone here. Someone that may have the perfect classic or pre 64 that functions perfectly, is accurate, and also in the condition you desire. All of my model 70's meet those requirements. I know others here also have some great rifles. Then you would just have to look for a nice stock. Anyone here have a barreled action or complete rifle that may work?

Winchester never rust blued M70 receivers

Wait, the 7mm Rem mag. Sorry for the confusion. I like the one built by Brownell.

Exactly what I was thinking^^^ Or, just ask some of the members in this forum. Someone may have a very good example in the safe.

Yeah, I told a couple fellas the other day, if I had such a rifle in a 270 or 280 I'd be in rifle Nirvana..

I LOVE that Brownell. It is like he measured me for that rifle..






Shoots well for an old clunker as well..

That one is sweet. I think everyone here loves that old rifle... It puts off a good vibe too.

When it's time - I'll post up an ISO post here/classifieds. I got about 23 irons in the fire right now on non-rifle things. This was literally an idea I had over lunch today, thought I'd ask before I forget.

Sorry - I wasn't clear. I'd have the whole thing rust blued, given I'd be building it. IOW - non-stainless rifle.

Pictures from pocono:

Post it here, before the classifieds. I know there are some good guys here in this forum. If they say they have a good one, I'd trust them. The problem is getting one to let go of some of them. DF is talking in another thread, about getting rid of some as we progress in age. I only have one that I can think of letting go for this cause. It's a pre 64 30-06 fwt in excellent condition. It could be sold as a barreled action, as it's in a Mcmillan stock right now.

I get that. It's a great idea and the nice thing is if you're not in a hurry, you'll be surprised on what you'll find. Our classifieds here have been awesome to me on WTB.. Careful asking about ISO ads, cause we have some serious M70 hounds around here that'll bury you in awesome stuff.

More from pocono:

30-06's are perfect to get rid of.. Good call BSA

We're about to stop being friends posting stuff like that in the open....

Lol - I get it. Thanks guys.

While my dad shoots a Win 70 in 270, it's a NWTF push feed raffle winner. He even shoots old school round nose bullets in it too. Black Shadow I think they called em.

I may be wrong, but thought he was looking for a 30-06? I like mine. It's what I grew up with. I have a std wt 270 that I may offer MGW in the other thread. As, he's never had a pre 64!!!!! The only drawback is it's in a custom stock.. It's scary accurate. Maybe even one of the most accurate model 70's I have, and that is with only a small amount of loading for it. DF is right, if some of these younger guys have an interest, they should be the ones that get dibs on them. Just how I see it..

I was kidding about not anything to like about the 06 so you might as well send it


Dang, that Brownell 270.... Anyone else got the sweats?

Yes, I'd like to kick AK's nut sack up to his chin now!!!! That sure is a beautiful rifle. Looks like a JOC commemorative rifle, but nicer!!!!!

Quite the spread, what's up with the fourth one down.

It is one of the Super Grades with French Walnut. That one is a 6.5 PRC and a peach of a rifle. Everytime I hear someone talk smack about the FN guns, I can't remember much else that has been factory made that is a ton nicer than that rifle.

Yeah, looks pretty sharp from here. I'm sure it shoots as good as it looks.

Definitely not popular opinion, but my local place had a Portugal 308 supergrade in French walnut I would put up against any I have ever seen.

I remember seeing a 6.5 Creed when the French Walnut guns first hit the market and it had some oh my God wood on it and they were around 1500 bucks at that point. One of the ones I wished I snatched off the rack instead of waiting.

Another fella on here has a 7 Rem Mag in French Walnut that is more than amazing as well. I still keep my eyes open for others especially when the ads list the real rifles pictured.

It was pretty decent Ben. Used 129 ABLR's the first year after a quick work up for a buck.



I did a little load work with the 139 Scenar and man, it really woke up.

beretzs sent me a link one time, to a beautiful BACO in a french walnut stock, chambered in 6.5PRC, like the one he has. Some of them are jaw dropping beautiful rifles. I almost got weak enough and bought it. ha ha..

I wanted a 270 or 280.. The 6.5 was enough of a deal and pretty enough wood I couldn't say no.

Get a New Haven stamped G series 6 digits or less if building a custom rifle. If not that, then pre 64 mid 1950 or earlier. BACO made ones are at the bottom of my list due to the enclosed trigger housing.

Can't complain about that!

Where'd you get the buck

It's a NY buck Ben.

Following...

I know my two cents isn't worth a bunch, but I have followed bsa's advice, I look for 5 or 6 digit classics, and if they're priced right, I jump. Low 6 digit though. However, there are still pre 64's out there that can be had for reasonable prices as donor rifles. I got to the point a long time ago that quantity was not worth quality so I spent time "trading up". I love that you're thinking about passing down to a grandkid. We may not know if they will appreciate it or not, but I remember wishing I had a grandpa with a closet full of winchesters I now had. Not to be, so I had to go find my own. I have three girls, and when two of them were about 3 and 6, I was looking for an excuse to buy a colt light rifle. Was elk hunting at the time, guess what, I got to buy 2! Third one came along later. Those girls hunt those rifles today. Due to everyone having differing degrees of recoil sensitivity the first one started with a 7-08 and the other two started with a swede.

I was just given my first grandchild, and each of my girls will be given a rifle for their kids to start out with. It will be of a caliber that is elk eligible, but also considerate to recoil. 6.5 swede, 7x57, etc. However, given a year or two, they will be given a pre 64 that is their own to do with what they want. Hopefully they will understand the meaning. Each are also going to be given a Ruana knife to go with that rifle.

About all I can say is, think of your kids, and think of grandkids. Give them something to make them stop and think of you. That may be passed further down the road than we know. For the past 5 years I've given guns away for Christmas. Do I wonder if my girls would rather have something else, sure I do. This year was hard for me, my girls each got a colt python, and as much as I love them, id die before I sold one, so they were gonna be left with them anyway. One thing my dad didn't do for me is actually hand me what I wanted, or what he wanted me to have. Guess thats the point that my rambling is getting at, give them while you're still here, at least you'll get to see the reaction. My heart was proud when my oldest daughter called to tell me, after I gave her her diamond back, and she went to the range, " dad, he said I had the nicest gun at the range"! Damned straight she did, and you can't beat that!

Well said PSH. That was beyond cool.

Here's a Baco 7x57 FW. It shoots better than i can hold it. For some reason all my 7x57 like 3031 and 139.

Cool deal

Guess we're gonna give it away anyway folks. Who we gonna give it to?