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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18 |
Brady made Belichick successful and famous. Gene Chizik wasn't worth a crap without Cam Newton either. Bill had a SB win before Brady, granted as DC of the Giants but that was a hell of a Giants D. Plus the Jets head coach for 10 minutes, prior to recent years, the last coach to do anything with the Browns in the playoffs. Bill had chops before Brady, was successful before Brady, famous before Brady. Belichick's record as a head coach in Cleveland was 36W-44L with 1 winning season, 1994, when they were 11W-5L with Vinnie Testaverde. Without TB12 as his starting quarterback he had 2 winning seasons in New England, 2008 when Matt Cassel replaced an injured Tom Brady, and in 2021 after Brady had left New England. Belichick had exponentially more success as a head coach with Brady than he had with all of the other quarterback combined. Brady went on to win a Super Bowl with Tampa, showing that he could win a Super Bowl without Belichick. Belichick might win a Super Bowl without Brady, but he hasn't yet. I'm sure that there are a lot of NFL assistant coaches with Super Bowl wins, but those are group wins that nobody keeps track of. People who coach sports teams are ranked/graded on their records as the person in charge, not as assistants with much less control over the entire team and the associated outcomes, just like ships captains and business CEOs who are also held accountable for the ogranization's outcomes. Much better stated than my attempt. Can't slant it any other way.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,189 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,189 Likes: 1 |
I'm sure that there are a lot of NFL assistant coaches with Super Bowl wins, but those are group wins that nobody keeps track of. People who coach sports teams are ranked/graded on their records as the person in charge, not as assistants with much less control over the entire team and the associated outcomes, just like ships captains and business CEOs who are also held accountable for the ogranization's outcomes. Then it stands to reason that unless a head coach wears the multiple hats of the GM, Player Personnel Director and Owner, and of those who have the control over the franchise's checkbook, all draft choices and free agents they must be given the same leeway. It takes a combined team effort to be competitive in the NFL. From the ownership suite all the way down to the condition of the practice facilities. You can only play cards with the hand you get dealt. Some are great, some will make you consider folding.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,184 Likes: 38
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,184 Likes: 38 |
I'm not a Brady hater. As a matter of fact I've come to accept him as the greatest ever. Having said that there is an argument to be made, and a strong argument at that, that Belichick made Brady the QB he became. Either way, I think each made one another better. He is not the greatest ever. Maybe in the last 10-15 years but not ever. The NFL has changed the rules so may times to protect BRady and make the league all about touchdowns. Can’t touch the quarterback cant touch the receiver etc etc. Let’s put Brady’s best team against the Steelers of 78 and see who lasts. Mel Blount pounding a receiver Jack lambert slamming the quarterback, yeah lets see who wins that one So who’s your top five for greatest ever?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18 |
I'd go with Brady, Montana, Bradshaw, Manning, and Brees
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 674
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2014
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Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, Brady, then Young. Brady's rating was so so and he did lose 3 games.
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,488 Likes: 28
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 69,488 Likes: 28 |
Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, Brady, then Young. Brady's rating was so so and he did lose 3 games. LOL. I don’t know about Aikman & Bradshaw. 🤪 How about Marino, Johnny Unitas, Bart Star, and of course, the Real GOAT…….. Roger Staubach. 🤠 Couple of Guys named Manning & Elway weren’t too bad either. And even Brett Farve was better than Steve Young. Brady was a good QB with a great Coach and great Receivers. Without Edelman, Gronk and a few others, he was mediocre at best. Not to mention an outstanding DF, that kept them in the games.
"Allways speak the truth and you will never have to remember what you said before..." Sam Houston
Texans, "We say Grace, We Say Mam, If You Don't Like it, We Don't Give a Damn!"
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Joined: Nov 2014
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2014
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Favre better than Young! Ha Ha Ha
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,528 Likes: 9
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 28,528 Likes: 9 |
Jerod Mayo is the new Coach. That was awesome how they had in his contract already that he’d be the next Pats Coach when Bill retired. He’s a TN Vol.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
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What the Patriots, Belichick and Brady accomplished since 2000 will probably never be equaled. To me that is GOAT criteria. Nine SB appearances and winning 6 of them, not too bad.
Results are results.
Arcus Venator
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 28,303 Likes: 18 |
What the Patriots, Belichick and Brady accomplished since 2000 will probably never be equaled. To me that is GOAT criteria. Nine SB appearances and winning 6 of them, not too bad.
Results are results. It was on par with Phil Jackson coaching the Chicago Bulls when Jordan played. Give the guy the freaking ball and get out of the way.
It is irrelevant what you think. What matters is the TRUTH.
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 2,003 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2016
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I'm not a Brady hater. As a matter of fact I've come to accept him as the greatest ever. Having said that there is an argument to be made, and a strong argument at that, that Belichick made Brady the QB he became. Either way, I think each made one another better. He is not the greatest ever. Maybe in the last 10-15 years but not ever. The NFL has changed the rules so may times to protect BRady and make the league all about touchdowns. Can’t touch the quarterback cant touch the receiver etc etc. Let’s put Brady’s best team against the Steelers of 78 and see who lasts. Mel Blount pounding a receiver Jack lambert slamming the quarterback, yeah lets see who wins that one So who’s your top five for greatest ever? Bart Starr terry Bradshaw Johnny Unitas joe Montana Brett farve
We might have to be neighbors, but I don’t have to be neighborly. John Chisum
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,997 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,997 Likes: 3 |
I'm not a Brady hater. As a matter of fact I've come to accept him as the greatest ever. Having said that there is an argument to be made, and a strong argument at that, that Belichick made Brady the QB he became. Either way, I think each made one another better. He is not the greatest ever. Maybe in the last 10-15 years but not ever. The NFL has changed the rules so may times to protect BRady and make the league all about touchdowns. Can’t touch the quarterback cant touch the receiver etc etc. Let’s put Brady’s best team against the Steelers of 78 and see who lasts. Mel Blount pounding a receiver Jack lambert slamming the quarterback, yeah lets see who wins that one So who’s your top five for greatest ever? Sid Luckman Terry Bradshaw Joe Montana Otto Graham Bart Starr (sub Staubach, Tarkenton or Unitas) They got hit. Their receivers got hit. Defenders didn't let up when they contacted any of them. In the effing head, every damn game and they were winners when refs (and everyone else) knew what was a pass, a catch and a fumble was.
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 14,323 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 14,323 Likes: 6 |
Yeah, Brady is mediocre. Right.
An old guy in his 40's when most players have long since retired, he moves to Tampa Bay. The Bucs are a mediocre team, at best. Went 7-9 the year before. In his first year, Brady wins Tampa Bay the Super Bowl.
Yeah, anybody could have done that.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,997 Likes: 3 |
Kinda like when Manning went to Denver....
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,721 Likes: 9
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,721 Likes: 9 |
Steelers with Bradshaw and Coach Noll won 4 Superbowls in 6 years.
Beat that.
My biggest fear is when I die my wife will sell my guns for what I told her they cost.
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,997 Likes: 3 |
Bradshaw got hit, in the fuggin face, with a helmet against Dallas in the Super Bowl.
Brady was literally allowed to pass and his receivers allowed to catch compared to the early 90s quarterbacks and going back.
He's done outstanding for his generation of the NFL, but I have a hard time putting him on the same level of some of his predecessors.
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,472
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 9,472 |
Look at the difference in size. Someone mentioned a steelers linebacker who played saying he'd kill Brady...
Brady is bigger. Qbs now, like manning, brady) are bigger, faster, stronger.
It is across the board at every position.
Science, nutrition, training...have changed all sports.
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,997 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,997 Likes: 3 |
Brady and Manning are both slower than fugg, because they are/were pocket passers with "do not hit" signs on them.
They weren't Francis or Roger or even Elway.
I think maybe you've never seen "that" linebacker hit Earl Campbell.....
Money has changed all sports, thats why most of them including the NFL, are a joke.
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