Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Optics educate me. thermals and night vision...

Learn me up. No experience with such, other than night hunting with kill lights. Don't do much night stuff anymore because I'm usually in bed about then....grin

But an experience a couple nights ago that got me to thinking of my shortcomings. I-70 borders the ranch and there was a car/semi wreck right out by the gate. When the cops and amberlamps showed up, an armed passenger from the car fled the scene on foot. He headed for my creekbottom, towards my corrals and cowshed. Lucky for me, the local fire chief(who was in the ambulance) gave me a call to alert me to the situation. I don't even have a light on any pistols (which is shortly to be rectified). But anyway, I headed down the hill to the main house to lock everything up and get my guns and car keys outta the ranch trucks and be ready to give the fugger a big surprise if he showed his face. I didn't want to turn on a flashlight to give the perp an idea that I was out and about, so it was a stumblefugg doing all this in total darkness. I sure figgered NV gogglers woulda been handy about then, along with a thermal/NV scope on an AR. Clip-on's sound interesting, as I could use it as a monocular to see/scan with, then slap in on the rifle if needed. Am I off base here? I don't need no fancy stuff, no video/phone capabilities, do they make simple on/off switch models?

Eddicate me, here. Thanks

PS.. They recovered the guys gun on the shoulder of the hiway about a half mile south, and finally caught him a few hours later on the other side of the interstate. Quite a deal for a few hours, 8 State cops, 4 SO depittys from 2 agencies, a game warden, 2 fire trucks, an ambulance and 2 hiway dept dump/plow trucks.....

Thermal for spotting and shooting, Night Vision for navigation.

Edit: my experience is military (old tech) and recent using high end setups doing run and gun at night at competitions with borrowed gear. But shooting is way better with thermal, and running through the woods is way better with NV. Shooting with just NV requires optics be setup at a height that works, with magnifiers etc if using NV compatible red dot settings

Another avenue for info. Call this guy, seems he is pretty knowledgeable.

Clip-ons are great in theory, but not so great in practice.
Something along the lines of a Bering Optics Super Hogster is pretty handy and high quality, and you can still pull it off the AR rail to use as a scanner.
An added bonus to a thermal that could possibly serve as a reason to have your employer make the purchase or as a tax write-off is to use the scanner during calving season to find a dumbazz two year old heifer's calf when she walks off and forgot where she left her calf. Or as a way to look at your buildings on a cold night to find areas of heat loss in need of extra insulation.

NV need an illuminator?

Watched this one last night.

Shows 1 thermal and not sure what you classify the other as but uses an illuminator. One with the illuminator tends to let the brush ruin the video and the thermal picks up the critters which he shows and talk about.

Depends on the setup. Using the really high end stuff I could make hits to 300ish without, but I'm not buying double tube nods, helmet, mount, 1.9" optic mounts, etc for 10k+ to shoot with NV, and using and illuminator literally screams HERE I AM to anyone using NV in the area. I mean, a great illuminator is amazing, but it's like a tracer at night times a billion. So it really depends on your intended use. I'll probably go thermal with a unit good enough to work as a decent scanner, but I don't plan on running around in the woods at night playing Ranger/SEAL/Recon, so intended use would be detection and shooting.

👍🏿👍🏿

How 'bout this as a cheap intro?

https://cameralandny.com/shop/arken...ariation=3644735&query=arken%20night

I have 6 of their scopes and like the heck outta them.

Something like that used with a GOOD illuminator would probably work great, but the digital NV isn't on the same playing field as tubes, in clarity/resolution or price.

understood. thanks

Separate scanner and scope or just use the rifle while scanning?

Don, I'm just starting to learn this stuff too.. Night Vision is usually an Infrared set up that has its own illuminator, or another can be added, but its just more junk to pack around. Thermal is the way to go IMO, but its still too pricey for me, considering how little I'd actually use it.Thermal shows you temperature, NV just lights everything up for you and doesnt discriminate my temp as far as I can see.

I'd prefer quick detach that holds zero. I'm not a fan of "looking" at/for people with my weapon since I'm solidly 1st CivDiv now. 😁

This is good advice.

I’d consider one of those Bering products - they can be had on the used market for a decent savings.

My partner uses one as his scanner but easily doubles as a backup scope if need be.

Don, for what you’re describing, thermal is the way to go, far more covert and due to heat signatures, targets (or humans 😀 ) visible at far greater distances.

Be for scanning for critters.

I started using kill lights circa 2004. Used them until i got night vision. I have 3 different night vision optics that I used for several years until I got the Bering Optics Super Hogster. It is a "384" unit. When the Super Yoter ("640") unit came out, I got that. It is the main thermal that have used for the last two year or so. It works.

Night vision is best when viewing a stationary object or when depth perception is key. As mentioned, I'd not be wanting to run though heavy brush using Thermal.

Those new ARKEN ZULUS ZHD520 night vision units are interesting.

Three weeks ago I did a comparison between my Sightmark Wraith 4K-mini with a Nightsnipe N-750 aftermarket IR Illuminator vs. my Super Yoter vs my Taipan Scanner. Bunnies at 70 yds. Felt like i was in sand-box using the Night Vision compared to both thermal units.

Nothing hides from thermal.

The RIX LEAP 600 is new, but looks to be awesome, price is about 2/3'rds of comparable Pulsar units. One the things that make it different is what is being labeled as "continuous optical zoom" (not true optical) as opposed to digital. IIRC early on users have mentioned problems with both software and audio.

If discovery/observation is key rather than hunting/shooting, I'd say get a thermal scanner with a minimum of 384 x 288 resolution sensor, 12 micron sensitivity is superior to 17 micron sensitivity.

There are a number of different brands. I chose the AGM Taipan TM 15-384 as it had the lowest base magnification at 1.5x of the 384 units I could find. I Do not think you would be satified with a 256 resolution optic.

The Taipan is in my pack every time I go afield. My Leica binocs have almost become obsolete when it comes to discovery. With thermal, day or night, anything above the ambient temperature just "Pops".

Here is a short vid of a thermal hog hunt. The white dot in the distance is a hog.Distance is estimated at 400+ yds (optic has 710 meter detection range.) People in the vid are +/- 50 yds in front of the high rack vehicle. Flashing green markers are hot tracking (an option).



As to simple on off. Yes. Press the power button and the unit comes on. Press the zoom button to increase the magnification. Other things can be done such as snapshots and video capture, but that is about as simple as it gets.

I typically keep mine at base magnification for the "field of view" and clarity of image.

Good luck on your quest.

Best,

GWB

GW,
Had never considered it, but you’re saying you use the thermal during daylight to pick up heat signatures/identify game also?

Also, you used your yoter on a .308?
Have a dedicated suppressor host that needs to pull double duty as dedicated thermal host.

Based on my experience coyotes in pressured areas can see IR. I switched to thermal a few years ago. They are a game changer. Spend the money and get a reliable thermal. I like Bering thermal products. They have a good reputation

I use a tri pod and rifle is mounted to tri pod. I sit or stand depending on area and foliage . I use this set up to slowly scan

Hint..............

Yes.

Remember, with thermal, one is not (for lack of a better term) limitied to light or illumination, one is measuring the difference in the external temperature of an object in comparison to the ambient temperature. Consequently, day or night if that object's temperture is above ambient, it will stand out. The resolution and sensitivity of the sensor is a major factor in detection range and identification of an object.

The Super Hogster is now mounted on an AR-15 chambered for the 300 HAM'R. I use it for running and gunning in fields where I may make 10 to 20 shots on running pigs.



The Super Yoter is on my Sig Cross, chambered for 308 Win. It is my dedicated thumper for most of the hunting I do as I rarely shoot more than twice and rapid follow up shots are not necessary. I'm thinking of putting up lights at a couple feeders just so I will use other rifles.

Typically any time i go afield I'm out at least an hour before daylight and many times in the eve hunt until 2 AM. In the last two years I could count on one hand how many times it has not accompanied me. At night when i get out of the stand, i may leave my pack, binocs and another rifle, but never the rifle with thermal.

Thermal suppressed is a game changer. Once tried successfully, you'll probably be spoiled. I am.

I am liking some clip-ons more and more.

I have 640 and 385 res thermal scopes and those work really.

That said, the AGM StingIR when mounted exactly at scope line over bore and with covers to stop any ambient light from reaching the scope lense is pretty damn sweet.

You can dial range in the day optic (of limited value) and the image is less intense in full dark, which is easier on your eyes.

The little StingIR weighs 8 oz so combined with a Leupold VX-6 3-18 it's a bit lighter than my Adder 640x50mm.

The StingIR is awesome as a hand held scanner and bridged with a PVS-14 (Night Vision) for a dual band helmet setup.

For calving the vehicle mounted Nightride units are a gamechanger.

Thermal video feed inside the cab to a tablet.


LOL.

As per you're usual your way behind and sucking hind tit. (Just cause it bothers you and it's fun to push those buttons)

But you will be crowing about how you invented thermal in short order.

Any ideas on when you can pick up enough soda pop cans to afford your first suppressor?

nice set ups.

love my super hogster

What can you legally hunt with thermals in AK? Just curious. A buddy of mine lives in Palmer and we were discussing it last night.

That would depend on the situation. I love my clip on and I also have a bering optics hogster. I use the hogster for scanning. I sit in blinds and hunt during daylight and dark and I don't feel comfortable swapping scopes out in the field and I don't like hunting with a thermal during the daylight. If I were only hunting at night or if I moved around allot, I would use a dedicated thermal scope.

does the thermal give up a lot in the daylight?

Thanks for all the input. I think that after reading you guys stuff, most are reco'ing not cheaping out with the Arken NV and to go thermal. I kinda like that cheap Wraith thermal that 10GA linked, as for not going whole hog on something that I won't use much. And the fact that it takes cr123's is a plus to me. Not having to worry about charging an internal and already having a bunch around for my headlights and flashlights seems good for only using a little. So, if I pull the plug on the Wraith thermal, what handheld should I be looking at? I can see THAT getting a lot more use around here than the scope. Is a monocular hard on your vision at night, or would thermal binocs be a better way to go? Keep it coming.....

Anyone tried the Athlon Cronus scope and scanner? About $4k would buy both and the specs seem pretty decent for that coin. Everyone seems to rave about Athlon.

Your handheld will see a lot more use than the thermal or NV weapon sight, and for that item I would highly recommend thermal. For detecting, you don't really need a lot of clarity, the thing just alerts you to the presence of something that might merit a little attention. There's nothing at all wrong with a higher quality thermal monocular if it doesn't hurt your pocketbook, but you can get by with something pretty utilitarian. You really do need to be able to identify something before you shoot it, of course, so either your scanner (or monocular) needs to be up to snuff or the weapon sight does. I am not suggesting that a thermal monocular typically will leave you guessing, but sometimes you may not be sure what you're looking at. For hog hunting down here, you get pretty good at making that call by the way the critters move and behave but you just can't be too careful when the only things you should be shooting at are hogs and coyotes and such.

A monocular IS hard on your vision at night. It will desensitize your eye for a little while and it can take five or ten minutes before your normal vision returns. I've never used a thermal or NV binocular myself, but it seems to me your vision would be totally wiped out in both eyes for a while and even if you just take a quick peek around. I'd rather have at least one good eye all the time.

I use a Pulsar Axion Key XM30 as a scanner. It was about $1350 or thereabouts, best I can recall. I've said it before and I'll say it again, that is the last of my night hunting equipment I'd want to give up. I have a quite nice Pulsar thermal scope on my night gun and I like it very much, but I'd give it up and go back to digital night vision before I'd give up that little thermal scanner. It's just too useful and makes night hunting MUCH easier.

My AGM Taipan 10-256 was $550, I looked tonight and the 15-384 is $1195. If it was that cheap when I bought mine, I would’ve went 384, seems like it was $1500.

But I paired mine with my phone and drove down the road, cows and calves are easily identified. I’m sure the 384 would be better but for now I’ll rely on my Wraith NV scope to ID before I shoot. Probably upgrade to a thermal scope eventually.

In Huntsman’s case of looking for someone around the place, I would be comfortable using my 10-256 scanner. But again, the 384 would only be better.

Do these handheld thermal scanners have a mount/hole on the bottom for tripod use?

Did the deed today. Called Doug and ordered a Pulsar refurb monocular for scanning and the Arken cheapo NV scope. The Arken is on a slow boat from china, so that may be a while getting here. Will toss it on cheap dpms AR for giggles. Also have a Wraith mini thermal on the way for my suppressed AR. Figgered to try both ways and find out the diff's for myself. These otter be good enuff for what little use I need them for, but if I was going whole hoglet, like Geedub, I woulda been a little free-er with my funds.....

Appreciate all the input, fellers. Don

There may be something that includes a tripod mount, but I wouldn't know which. Which Pulsar did you choose? Out of curiosity I tried to dig one up on CL's website but couldn't find anything refurbed.

You're gonna love thermal!

Nothing. Can. Hide.


Now you need hogs up there in Wyoming country.

Just kidding. You really don't!

The AGM scanners do have a tripod mount on the bottom.

I dug my Pulsar out of my backpack to take a look, and sure enough it has a provision for mounting as well. It was there the whole time, I just never had occasion to think I may want to use it that way. I've had mine two or three years and was never aware of that feature. LOL.

Don,

What's the old saying, "Rome wasn't built in a day".

It's taken me since 2002 or there abouts to acquire my night hunting equipment.

Sounds like you chose well.

Next thing you know you might get into modern air guns.

What with all the varmints you got you should have a ball with your NV and thermal.






yup!



GWB

I have the Wraith NV 2-16x, it is digital and has worked well for me, like you, I didn't want to spend a whole lot of money to only shoot hogs every now and then on a friends ranch and entry into the game.

I bought a better IR illuminator, since the one it comes with was sometimes not enough. Another advantage was that the flashlight I got for IR illumination can take different bulbs, so it can be used as a regular green light source (or red ' but I bought a green one).

As mentiones, the illuminators will have the washout effect with reflections from brush, and depending on where you position it, sometimes the smoke from firing will flash and "blind" the scope, enough that it can limit shots if not on an open field and hogs can hide.

The only thermals I have seen have been cheaper ones and the resolution of the rest of the forest looked better with the NV, albeit you can't see behind brush

Haha! that's because I grabbed the only/last one. Axion2 XG35 for $1999. Decided to bump up to the one above yours for just a couple hundo more.

geedub, I have a little tripod like that on my Garmin....


thanks again, guys.

We've been getting good feedback on the new InfiRay Outdoor AFFO AP13 Thermal Monocular.

The AFFO Series handheld thermal imaging monocular is an entry-level thermal monocular for users, featuring both a fashionable appearance and a more compact size. The AFFO Series uses a self-developed 12μm detector to produce crisp images and supports photo taking and video recording with its built-in high-speed 32GB storage capacity.

That's a solid scanner, amigo. I used the previous generation with LRF.

Would have loved to have LRF in the dark, but I was too cheap to spring for the LRF one.

10/4

you didn't think I'd be savvy enough to think of buying that one with out a little help from a friend.



I may be a Texican that hunts behind Gates in Golf Carts, but I can follow sign (if its plain enough).

ya!

GWB

Excellent choice, Don. I don't think you'll ever regret it, even for a microsecond.

I might decide to upgrade mine, but it would just be an extravagance like when I upgraded from a 384 thermal scope to a 640. Not really truly necessary, but nice.

The LRF idea is not a bad one at all. It is somewhere between impossible and can't-be-done to estimate range using a thermal. The images are just too synthetic, for lack of a better term. DNV might be easier because it's much more like looking at a B&W image, but that would never be enough of an advantage for me to switch back to DNV.

I think there's some new stuff coming out that, based on the little attention I have paid to it, is kind of a hybrid between DNV and thermal. I stay off sites where I can read more about it for the same reason I do not test drive BMWs or Corvettes.

I feel ya.

I'd luv one of the new Super Yoter LRF's, but at this time not willing to plunk down near near 5K for that feature.

ya!

GWB

I suspect you've just begun your slippery descent down thy rabbit hole.

You suspect wrong. Just like geedub thinks I have ANY inkling to get into fancy/schmancy airguns. That said, the local LGS does have a Ruger American Ranch in 6.5 grendel that they're gonna hold for me for a couple weeks (or until I replenish some cash) to mount the Wraith on, instead of my suppressed AR. I can put the Arken on that and put my currently unmounted Harvester on the grendel and have 2 suppressed night rigs. After that, I'm done. Really......grin

Ohhh, but it's a great ride. LOL.

Quoting this one for posterity, my friend.

Not in my experience. The debut of my Pulsar Talion XQ 38 was so surprisingly clear & resolute, I thought, I could just hunt with this alone, daylight or dark.

Just remember, thermals do not give you a picture of antlers. They have no heat signature.

That's not 100% true. In colder conditions, there's generally enough heat-bleed to at least cast a vague outline.
And it also involves some tweaking to the settings to get contrast and brightness just right.

Mounting thermal scanners to a window mount and feeding the image to a tablet makes driving in the dark more fun.

Agree, the other night hog hunting I had a large buck walk in at about 80 yards and as it turned its head, I could see antlers and this boy was a 9 or 10 point. Standing still hard to see them but when he turned his head, easy to see.

I'm sure others have provided great feedback on this subject... I'm well into the rabbit hole on Thermals so I'll share my experience.

Started with an entry level Pulsar scope three years ago struggled holding zero and then the pulsar rep told me they had trouble with bodies twisting due to temp swings.... Worked OK but then you want more.... sold it.

Purchased a Pulsar monocular XM30 for spotting along with the Pulsar scope. Monoculars work for scanning because you are not moving the rifle around all the time. I hunt tight SC timber so it's one or two shots and done. The monocular works great for spotting deer in cutovers early mornings too. Legal where I hunt as long as it's not mountable on a weapon and only an observation device.

Sold the monocular last month and replaced it with a Pulsar XM35 with better resolution and love it.

Purchased a Trijicon REAP IR MKII 60 from Europtic and love it. Price hurt but it was a game changer and rugged. (Made for 18 years olds in the military) It's heavy but I hunt using a bogpod death grip so the rifle and thermal are mounted on the tripod.

Last year I bought a ATN LT 2-4X as an economical backup on a second rifle and loaner for friends who want to night hunt. Like it a lot but you must be careful as the housing is plastic. Image quality was good too.

Budget:

Monocular say $1600 to 2K
Trijicon REAP was $7K in mid 2022 and retailed for 9K. Expensive but I'll own this for a long time and you can run over it an it will still work... Today, there are good thermals for half the price.
ATN LT 2-4 was around $1,100


If you are going to get serious about Thermal hunting, buy the best you afford or a bit more than you can afford. Buy once and cry once.


Now one thing about thermals I learned and I'm sure most others who have been using these know this already... One knock on my REAP is base magnification is 1 power and then goes 2, 4, 8. Every time you zoom, the resolution is cut in half. I run mine mostly on 2X magnification so you are starting with a high re$olution thermal and right away cutting its resolution in half. The ATN starts are 2X and then goes to 4X, so your base magnification with best resolution is 2X.

So look at a thermal that has its highest resolution at the power you are going to generally shoot so you are not wasting any by zooming. If I got this wrong, someone correct me as this is all a learning experience all be it a pricey one....


But, fun as can be and I never thought night hunting could be this fun and using the monocular for early morning spotting in large cutovers for deer is great. Check your laws as the state I hunt in doesn't allow the use of artificial light when hunting deer but thermal does not project artificial light but one could get creative and say the screen in the scope is artificially lit. The interpretation I got was that since the monocular is for spotting and cannot be mounted on a weapon it's ok. I'd never take the REAP with me deer hunting to spot with.


One other rambling point is you really have to practice with the thermal as you have no depth perception and you are shooting at what you see on a TV screen so practice helps. I've shot at hogs that I thought were closer and they were actually farther away. On my hog spots I have some landmarks to help be gauge where the hog is actually standing. Spot and stalking in the woods at night on a group of pigs is a blast!

Hope this helps.

Which between these two inexpensive choices for very occasional night hunting of 'yotes to go along with a handheld thermal?:

https://cameralandny.com/shop/arken...ariation=3644735&query=arken%20night

https://palmettostatearmory.com/sightmark-wraith-4k-mini-2-16x32-night-vision-scope-sm18041.html

Personally, I'd go with the Sightmark product. I know that they're good with support (they support Pulsar products in the US, and I have first-hand experience with them).

I have no idea how good Arken support would be.

The Wraith is only rated down to freezing if you live somewhere like here where coyote hunting is often a below zero activity.

Good catch. I'm surprised that Sightmark accepted that limitation. But, hey...there it is.

Have seen the vague outline. I'll go back & revisit the settings.

Wow. Good to know and a game changer as I'm in the midwest. We were way below zero all weekend.

I have the Wraith and it’s a decent scope that could use an upgraded IR illuminator. It was easy to sight in and has held zero. I like it.

We have just got above freezing today for the first time since last Friday night. I went out the other night at 9 degrees and it was working but nothing was out except me so I don’t know how well it would’ve worked.

I returned my AGM 10-256 scanner today and ordered a 15-384. Hopefully I’ll get to try it out this weekend.

I'm enjoying mine. I think you will like it


September 27, 2023, Hall's Bayou Ranch, humid and 85+ degrees. Guys were walking back from the sight where latest perforated hoglet had expired.

1.5x base mag.



Great for discovery, then go to the gun.

ya!

GWB

A 385 res from any of the known players will always be useful, scanner or scope.

Atta Boy Red Face Burnsy

Hey, geedub. Can a guy turn off those little blinking green cross thingy's? Those would drive me frickin batty having to look at them.

That's just "Hot Tracking" and can be on or off in a setting.

I know what you mean.

Yes they can,

That was my first outing with the Scanner, and it does have a bit of a learning curve.

Typically do not use the hot tracking option. Usually just plain old black hot or white hot.

Best,


GWB

A friend pre-positioned an N-Vision Halo XRF at my house for an upcoming pig hunt. Haven’t shot with it yet but have played around with it a bit and it is super impressive. Day, night, close, far, doesn’t matter. Critters just pop. Very impressed with the range finder too, having ranged stuff at > 1200 yards. Will zero it today if time allows.

YouTube video is not mine, but does give a good idea of image quality.

John

https://nvisionoptics.com/product/halo-xrf/

That’s what I pair with an AGM Neith NV scope and Sniper Hog light. The little Pulsar sees use in all kinds of scenarios and is super handy on a neck strap. The 640 scanner and NV combo seems to me like a lot of kit for $3k. Very capable. The only real advantage of 640 over 384 for the scanner is ID range, especially with smaller critters. I could tell a lone deer from a lone hog at 300yds with my 384res version, which was actually plenty of capability for a hog hunter.

hondo, a guy has to kill a chitload of $10 dollar coyotes to pay for that halo unit......

Roger that! That’s why I don’t have one, but much to my amazement, the wife said we might need to invest in one in the future…

John

I never thought that my thermal scope and monocular were money making financial investments.

I have a Pulsar Thermion 2 XP50 scope and the Pulsar Merger LRF XP50 bino's. What an awesome combination. I prefer having the range finding abilities on my bino's, rather than the scope because it mimics my day hunting of spot and range with the bino's and shoot it with the rifle.

A pretty cool function on the Pulsar is the pair to phone with the movement ID/alert function. If your hunting pigs at a feeder, you can prop the rifle to look at the feeder, then turn the display off to conserve battery. Meantime, stream it to your phone and enable the alert and auto start recording. The phone will ding/vibrate and start recording when the pigs show up.

Got the pulsar scanner-matic today. This thing is gonna be a lotta fun. It picks up traffic out on the interstatefrom 800-1700 yards, my longhorns at 1500 yards, chickens at 150. I'll do more playing with it tonight after dark....





The tripod mount isn't a simple screwhole on the bottom, but a angle deallie that mounts to the front. Kinda weird, but seems to work ok....

Good luck sleeping at night….lol

I'm not sure how it is there, but where I hunt, I can go all day and not see a critter. However, at night the woods come alive.

ya!

GWB

Weird evening with the N-Vision Halo. Put my .22 GT with thermal on it on my tripod and was observing the field behind the house. Spotted several jack rabbits and was able to range them as far as 439 yards. Was then looking at neighbor’s cows 1000 yards to my south and saw a pair of coyotes with them. Was able to range the coyotes at well past 1k. Watched what they were doing and it looked like they were harassing a heifer that was calving. Took the mule down there to try and get a shot at a coyote. I did take a shot at 233 yards, but just didn’t have a good position and missed. Went back to observing the laboring cow. Something just wasn’t right with it so I went through the fence to get a better look. Once I got close enough I saw it wasn’t a calving heifer at all but rather a big sow. Didn’t look like she was birthing. She was popping her tenth at me but she couldn’t get up. The coyotes had been chewing on her ass end. Killed her with my 9mm. I’m sure the coyotes will feast tonight.

John

Went out for a little bit tonight just to try the new 15-384 AGM scanner. Thing worked very well and I experienced what most have said about night vision.

Saw a white horse at about 150 yards away with the scanner. He was in some timber with lots of low hanging limbs between us. My Wraith mini 4K could not pick the horse up enough to positively ID. I could see it plain as day with the thermal.

I will upgrade to a thermal scope one day for sure. But for now the NV will have to do.

Looks like a heck of a coyote setup there. The GH50R seems impressive.

Yep. BC's be-damned at night.
Get all the @ss in the tank you can get.

Pretty crisp footage there, Al. And recorded video is compressed/downgraded compared to the view one actually sees in the scope.

I like having the LRF in the scanner but when it comes to brass tacks, LRF in the scope is aces before and when sparks begin to fly.

I don't think y'all can say that in the optics forum.....

Let us know how you like your purchases. Thermal is on my radar this year

I was thinking just an 18 inch barreled 5.56 with 45 grain TSX bullets? I am not sure I understand the advantage of a slow twist.

I imagine he was simply saying that an accurate and flat trajectory is especially advantageous at night on coyote-sized targets. Hitting very close to POA at moderate ranges is more important than extreme long range ballistics and wind drift in that scenario.

Your ability to gauge yardage estimations go out the window in the dark......

Fast & flat is where it's at.

My DTI is .6" high at 100, dead on at 200, 5" low at 300, so I can stay on fur almost out to 300.

^^^I’m leery of moving away from 223 for the volume I sometimes shoot, but it’d be doable for a dedicated coyote rig. I like 77gr 223s for a lot of things, but give me 55gr V-Maxs at 5.56 specs for my night rig. I have to move between smaller fields a lot, so rarely taking shots past 250….though the optic resolution is very nice to have in case some neighboring farm’s dog is roaming through, instead of Wiley.