Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles 6X45

Several questions.........where could you find a good, but not overpriced barrel? Second, anyone that has one, do you have any experiences you'd like to share. Thanks.

6x45. Is this a 223 necked up to 243 caliber/6mm caliber?

Yes

I asked about this one time. Seems to not be as popular as the 300 Blackout with it's necked up 223 case. Seems like it would work well for small to medium game.

Been there done that, just build a 6 arc.

I had one. Liked it enough. I had an AR Stoner barrel from Midway, 1:8 twist, 20”.

The good: phenomenally accurate and relatively easy to load for. H335 and 85 Sierras of whatever flavor, 90 gr Nosler Ballistic Tips and 85 gr Barnes TSXs. Sub 1” groups (5 shots) was normal at 100 yards. Not all day every day, but more often than not.

Easy to get brass, simply run a fired 223 into the 6x45 die. That’s it.

The not great: I was terrified I, or someone else, would touch one off in a 5.56/223. I couldn’t always tell which rounds were which by just looking, and since headstamps were all 5.56/223, I just knew it was asking for trouble, eventually. I bought sand PMags and dyed them to differentiate, but I couldn’t get over that.

It didn’t kill like I expected it to. Number of deer, varmints, and maybe a pig (don’t quite remember) and it just didn’t have the effect I expected. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t deadly or it wasn’t a run of bad luck. I didn’t shoot enough to formulate a real strong opinion. I just didn’t get what I was expecting. Again, not quantitative, just qualitative.

I know that’s far from the experience of many here, but it didn’t “wow” me.

I wish I hadn’t of sold it, and I think I could have done some things different to make the gun a bit more user friendly for what I wanted. Perhaps that’s a part of the disappointment…the gun wasn’t my favorite for what use I had intended.

I’ve never tried but I don’t think you could get the bolt to close on a 6x45 cartridge in a 223 chamber.

Probably not. I would think the 0.050” of extra diameter would keep the neck from entering, but I just didn’t have an easy feeling. I also had a guy put a 300 blk down his 5.56 at the table next to me at the range. It gave me a bit of irrational fear for a few years.

I now have reassembled my 300 blk and am wishing I hadn’t sold my 6x45…

James, a lot of us have tried it. I ran a lot of rounds through one, and tested the hell out of it. My conclusion is a good 223 rem loaded with 77,80, or 88's is just as good. Most 6x45's top out with about a 100gr pill. But you may find they really like 85's. Then, like I say, you are just as well off with a heavy bullet in a 223..

I agree. The ever-increasing number of 70gr+ .224 options has muscled in on the 6x45’s territory over the last 10-15 years. I’d want a bit more powder capacity these days with a 6mm option, otherwise it’s .223/5.56 for me.

I asked about the 6X45 because I have a ton of 223 brass, some lowers, and no real desire to build another AR in 223. I was just curious as to what some of you thought about it. In rethinking it, I doubt I would have anything to gain, except another mouth to feed in building a 6X45.

300 HAM'R is a fun use of brass.

Since they have shot 300/221 in a 223 rifle and survived it would have been an ok but not preferable thing.

There's a lot of stuff people have survived that I don't want to experience!!!

Yeah, just saying it wouldn't be the end of the world if it happened. And I'm still not sure it could at all anyway. There should be no physical way for that round to chamber I dont' think. IIRC we tried it back in the 80s and it would not chamber in our 223 rifles.

In this state a 5.56 isn't legal for big game, but a 6x45 is legal.

There is always that (ignorant) issue to deal with in some states. Thats not a ding at you at all. Just my take. Use a bigger gun. No matter if you can use it or not. lol.

I'd rather the shot be perfect with a small gun than imperfect with a bigger. But you and I don't write the rules.

Same in this state on Private land.

Some states allow 22 centerfire for deer, but 24 caliber for elk, as the minimum. I really don't think many guys are going to be reaching for a 6x45 for elk though.

Actually the 6x45 is an excellent step up cartridge, low recoil, good bullet choices, and gives option of heavier bullets. I looked at the 6x45 as an option after open heart surgury during recovery. I decided on the 6mm Mongoose as an alternative with a bit better bullet weight selection with accuracy due to the .050 shortened case. The goose is similar to the x45 with a shortened case, 40 degree shoulder and blown out body, you just change the barrel and you can use 6mm TCU dies to form the goose brass from LC military brass w/o neck turning.

Later I built a 24 Varmit, based on the 6.8 SPC, .050 shortened case, 40 degree shoulder and blown out body that uses a 6.8 bolt, 6.8 mags and a barrel in the AR-15 for about 200 fps more velocity, thus longer range. Recoil is very similar to the 6x45.

Both cases and barrels, dies, etc., come from Mad Dog Wapons Systems. The barrels are 1-8 twist in several lengths. Never hurts to look.

I rebarreled a bought for cheap Axxis to 6 x 45, with a one in 7 twist.

If I'd have done this 40 years ago, I'd have alot less 223s.

Took a 180 lb blacktail this last season with mine, using a 95 gr Ballistic Tip at 2600 fps MV.
Similar to what you really get with a factory loaded 243. Took 24 grains of powder.

It'll run 105 grain Bullets at 2550....

I have this and a second one now.. both rebarrels. Being over 70 now.. I figure most of the rest of my hunting career will be with the 6 x 45 and the 6.5 Grendel I have.. both bolt action rifles.

Just as effective and even at longer distances using spitzer bullets than the good old 30/30.

After spending a lot of time with it, shooting it quite a bit, even at distances to 400 yds on steel, I don't know why the US Military didn't make the " M 16" with a 6mm bullet instead of a 22 caliber bullet. I say this from the perspective of being a Military trained 91B and 91C.

If I need to shoot 75 to 88 grain 22 caliber bullets, I've got a 22.250 with a one in 7 twist barrel on it, and it has a longer magazine, because the Ruger was originally chambered in 243. Not getting rid of that one either, any time soon.

a 6 x 45 is a great kid's rifle chambering.. and also for us old guys starting to getting into the Fall Time of our lives.

My kids shoot a mini Mauser in 6x45 10 1/2 l.o.p my 9 yr old is at 24 whitetails with it my 6 yr old is at 3 no recoil 85gr tsx perfect deer killer

95 at 2600 is the speed of a 243. Yow. I"ve never seen ours that slow. But I digress.

The good thing now , you dont' have to run the 6. The .224 heavy bullet choice is out there and the 223 kills just as well as the 6x45 did

Well couple of things Rost,

1. I never saw a 243 with an MV as low as 2600 fps, with a 100 grain bullet in a factory load. Not until I bought myself a chronograph. I've run factory ammo, in all sorts of flavors and calibers, over a chronograph, and velocity was never what was printed on the box, or in their ammo specs. It was certainly never OVER their printed specs, but was consistently below and sometimes waaaay below their printed velocity. I've chronographed quite a few boxes of factory ammo, the entire box, as I probably bought it for the brass at a cheap price. The velocity of even the ammo out of the same box was ALL over the map.

2. As to a 223 being the same thing, with a heavier grain bullet as the 6 x 45? IIRC, your are a trained fireman and Paramedic Aren't ya? If I am recalling accurately, you are probably trained more in gun shots than the average guy on the campfire. I have the experience of being a military trained combat medic, and an extensive one, waay beyond just 91 B(andaid) Basic Combat Medic. That is an 8 week course. I also was a trained 91 Charlie, where we were trained in a bunch of stuff, way up and beyond what you'd learn in Basic Combat Medic. With that, in the field, I would be in charge of a bunch of other medics ( 91 Bravos ), and at the Battalion Aid Stations. I'd be in charge of triage, ( not the doctors like on MASH on TV.. they are busy doing doctor surgical stuff ). I also ran a MASH unit for 2 years, and also got to go thru the 300 F1 Course.. Special Forces Combat Medical Training. ( but no I wasn't a Green Beret).

with this as a point of reference, this is why I am supporting the use of the 6mm bullets in a 223 case, vs 22 caliber bullets.
I'm not preaching this for others to follow my lead or conclusions, its merely what I have decided for myself. Many cup and core bullets are much softer than the higher bullet weights in 22 caliber... at least the 6mm Bullets I would use for my 6 x 45. I do a lot of testing of bullets into all sorts of media, in all sorts of calibers, and weights. I want to know the parameters for myself, on any bullet weight in any caliber I will be using, so I know what to expect out of it.

Wasn't sent into combat during Vietnam times, but I've been around enough stuff to say, I'd rather take care of a wound on a soldier in the field, that was hit with a 22 caliber bullet, vs a 6mm bullet, of heavier weight. Having to do triage, I'd route a man wounded with a 6mm bullet in front of one that was wounded with a 22 caliber bullet. Even if the bullets were the same weight in each caliber. of course this is assuming each wound is in the same spot on each patients body.. all things being equal.

They don't train ya like that in the civilian world. But military training information for medical people, to include field trained and combat training, were put together under contract to the Federal Government, by Johns Hopkins Medical School, and Harvard Medical School. We were pretty highly trained. I know when I got out, off active duty, I stopped by the University of Washington's Hospital to apply for a job. I was told they weren't hiring by the secretary up in H.R. I was ran down by security before getting to my car to leave, and was escorted back up to HR. The head of H.R. told me her receptionist, didn't know that I was military trained. All she asked me was Where did I want to work, and when did I want to start.

M193 and a little M855 experience I guess but probably no MK262 and I know no MK318 experience.

When you start killing stuff with a proper bullet in 223, you’ll get over the 6mm.

You do make some valid points. But I've never seen a 243 round under upper 2700s but it may well exist. I think I shot about 5 boxes of ammo before I decided around 14 years old that reloading was better.

I did not know that in combat folks got shot with 6mms. Thats new one on me. But it did provide you apples to apples and I respect that.

There is going to be no way that the tiny bit larger bullet won't be a tiny bit better. BUT I've shot so much with 223 that when I feel the need for more, if a 75ish won't cover what I want done, and so far it has on out to around 600 or so, I'll move up more than just bullet diameter.
Example tends to be move from 223 to minimum 6.5 ppc and mostly 6.5 creed moor. There I can tell the difference after shooting a bunch of deer and pigs with the larger ones vs knowledge of how the 223 works.

Funny note. just killed another pig with 223 and 52 bthp. Back of the ribs only shot I had. Pig wasn't big, maybe 80. Went maybe 50 yards with the sounder it was with.

Anyway yes, a 6x45 has to be a bit better but its so close can you tell. Kind of like any round vs any AI round?

BTW was it you that had the blue dot info on 243? Someone did years ago. 80 varmint rated Ballistic tips slowed down to about 1600 or 1800 fps work wonders on game and is a lot quieter than a hot 243 round.

Yeah, guilty as charged on the Blue Dot load data on the 243.

In fact, that is sort of like what I was referring to, with the 6 x 45. I was testing some 87 gr BTHPs in 6 x 45, with a load of 15 grains of Blue Dot. Works wonders on game and is a lot quieter than a 243 round, which is burning 35 to 45 grains of powder depending on what powder you may be using.

So your answer to the question, can I tell the difference in that and a 223 with lighter bullet? Yeah.. and I can load a heavier bullet by quite a bit in a 6 x 45, vs a 223, even with a fast twist. The 22 calibers, longest bullet is the 88 grain Hornady. To fit into an AR, you are protruding into the magazine by quite a bit. My 6 x 45s are bolt action and I can seat a bullet further out and still use a big portion of the case's powder capacity. Longest bullets I've shot out of the 6 x 45 so far has been a 108 grain Hornady ELD-X. Had no issues reaching out to 300 yds with that one.. and it runs a pretty darn high BC for flatter shooting.

The bullets I can get that are heavy in 6mm are hunting bullets for the most part. In 22 caliber many of them are considered match and target bullets. a 95 grain Ballistic Tip leaving the Muzzle at 2600 fps, is still a very lethal bullet, and I say does a better job of damage on animal tissue, than an 88 grain 22 caliber bullet, that is more of a match bullet than a hunting bullet. Sure its splitting hairs, but why split hairs when you are hunting.. that could be the little difference in dropping your animal, or having to try and follow a blood trail...in dense undergrowth.


On the issue of 6mm vs 22 cal bullets being used in combat, I was not trying to mislead anyone.. they did not use 6mm Bullets in Vietnam to my knowledge. But the difference I have seen in damage a 6mm bullet can do, into the same media as compared to a lighter 22 caliber bullet, I'll take the 6mm any day. And if I am in combat, I want to put our enemy down.
The US military went with a 22 caliber, to comply with the Geneva Convention, because the 22 caliber will wound more than instead of being lethal and kill. Then they tell us all, that when someone is wounded, it can tie up 10 other troops, taking care of that wounded person, instead of fighting. Seems to me a soldier would want to put their enemy down, period.
A dead soldier isn't going to frag you, as you go by thinking they are out of the game.

My choice would be, to take the enemy out. on humans a 6mm bullet, is more lethal than a 22 caliber., between heavier weight, and a 100 grain bullet vs a 55 grain bullet, when it mushrooms is going to have a noticably greater width and retained weight vs the 22 caliber. As a medic, my job is to save the lives of my guys first, and their job is to put the enemy out of action first. We work on wounded enemies secondly, after we've squared away and stabilized our guys.

back again to the 80 grain bullets and them taking out game at 1800 fps or so... same but even moreso on a human vs an animal. An animal has greater survival instincts than many humans do. An average human body only holds about 6 litres of blood. The faster you can make them loose that blood, the faster their demise will come. The mission should be to put them down, not just take them out of action.

Just because of this conversation I got a text last night pigs were back out where I shot the first with the 223 at dark.

Grabbed the thermal. Put it on the 6.5 Grendel upper. 123 SST.

The 223 pig and 52 bthp went about 50 yards or so. Shot 5 more with the Grendel last night including one somewhat high shoulder shot. Starting at about 100 yards and out to about 160 yards. All 5 pigs went the same basic distance if not just a bit further with the 6.5.

Again in theory it works better bigger.

And I totally get what you are saying and would have been a proponent of your train of thought some years ago. But the 223 just does it. Even with light bullets for some reason.

I suspect its like some other somewhat mystical rounds like the 257 wtby. We refuse to use frangible bullets or light bullets in it, but nothing usually makes it very far after the shot. Followed that up by loading a light fast bullet for a buddies dad in 270 when he no longer could hit perfect every time. But while they all died quicker than his old loads the also almost all went double the distance of the 257 and the MV was fairly close.

I am just not sure that for most of the animals we shoot in the south that I ever need more than 75 bthp in 223 or 62/70 TTSX type bullets.

As to kill em quickly... I am for that and try to do that. But if we are honest then we need to use really big rounds with really frangible bullets and waste meat in the process.

A final note. 220 Swift. I'm not sure why. But a friend used one on deer the last 20 or so years he hunted. Some kind of 50 grain frangible IE hollow point as I recall. His family unit was known to load what I call butter knife loads. Fill her up with powder, scrape off excess with knife, crunch bullet in. So it wasn't slow. May not have been 4000 though.I doubt it was less than 3600 fps.

Anyway he only shot deer in the flank or guts basically. Not a single one according to them did anything but fall over. Pure shock I suppose. Thats severe shock but not caused by a bigger bullet at all.

I should have an AR upper in 22-250 this fall hopefully. In it I"m going to see if I can run 40-50 tipped bullets and put the thermal on it, little recoil, fast follow ups and see if I can repeat his 220 swift stuff on pigs.

Its always interesting to hash this through.

Sierra used to make a 90 grain FMJ. I think that would be a bit heavy for a current use .223 or 5.56 case but a 70 grain FMJ going 2800+ could put the hurt on a guy.

kwg

Speed kills

Rost,

What I am speaking up about, I apply only to my preference. I don't knock a guy if he prefers something different. He's the one shooting the round and not me, same in my direction in reserve.

I'm not abandoning 22 caliber at all. Lord knows I have enough of them and also plenty upon plenty of bullets.
I think bullet construction favors the 243 caliber bullets, that are on the market, for most game hunting.

But Lord knows, I have been in the field carrying a 223 or 22.250. My preference for going after deer etc tho is down to 2 bullets that I have seen work JUST FINE.. First choice... Speer 70 grain SMP, Followed by the 63 Sierra SMP.

Never shot a deer with of either, whether in 223 or 22.250, that was a runner. Pretty much bang/flop. But I wouldn't pass up using the 223, in my Model 70 Featherweight, out hunting with a 70 gr SMP Speer, charged with 29 grains of H 380, with an MV of 2900 fps. Its never failed to work for either.

After all, these all are just another tool in the toolbox for getting the job done, and they do it with Style & performance.

I'm not going to give up on the 6 x 45, but I'm also not done carrying my featherweight in the field with a 70 grain Speer or 63 gr Sierra. I like my 6.5 Grendel also. 29 grains of W 748, with a 129 SP Hornady, and a 140 grain Speer SP, have both been very successful for me, ONE TIME each but it gives confidence in the round, for other endeavors. Under 300 yds, it'll get the job done. And I'm using a bullet I've used in a lot of in several different 6.5 calibers. Never a failure in the field with those two bullets.. old school, but they still work, just like they did years and decades ago.

Good conversation my Friend, and best of luck in the hunting fields.

Enjoy the talks for sure. Its the only way to get more info.

An aside, the pigs I shot the other night with the Grendel and 123 sst. Drug one sow off that was probably 130 pounds. Bullet hit behind the front leg a bit about mid way up. It was turned backwards and half out on the other side so I pulled it and tossed it in the mule before I drug her off. Thought it weird that the bullet would not exit on a rib shot. And she ran at least 50 yards maybe closer to 75.

Is what it is. Heavy bullets work. Light bullets work. Its all about shot placement to start with. Just like the drops right there shots. They are much more about shot placement than what bullet you use.

That old 63 SMP is about the only Sierra bullet I trust anymore. Anything game king for the most part just will do all kinds of weird things one shot to another. FMJ through. Act normal. Blow up like a big HP... But those 63s must be the right part of everything for a cup and core.

Luck back to ya!

I built one on my Rem 600 with a shotout barrel, best thing I could have done with that rifle. I shot it as a 223 from 67 to the early 90's and a 6x45 ever since, great coyote rig, 55gr NBT/58gr Vmax. Sounds like a match made in heaven for an AR.

I just chambered a barrel for 6x45 for an AR. I turned down a used 6PPC barrel that is a 12 twist. I'll return the reamer on Monday, made a seater die while I was at it. LC fired brass is so cheap, picked up a sizing die. I have LOTS of misc. 6MM bullets, 65 to 70 grain with a few 80s too. I have more to do on the barrel, have to finish for the gas block, drill the hole, cut and crown. I work on it in spare time, but it won't be long.