Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats .280, or .280AI, or ?

Time to make a final decision,

Long action build on a 700 receiver,

Was thinking the .280Ai would be a cool cartridge, but gut feeling always questioned what an extra 5 grains of powder would gain me, other than 100 fps,

Now thinking just standard .280…..

I’ll shoot this rifle at the bench way more than at game, Honestly it may never draw blood, best case scenario, if our range actually expands I might get out to 600 yards, This is not a 1000 yard gun,

Gun should weigh about 8lbs scoped,

I don’t think the recoil from the extra 5 grains of powder would be a game changer, but justify the extra powder, barrel life, brass life, recoil, etc.etc….

.284 blank in possession, that really shortens the build time, and a .28 cal makes sense, got the .26 and .30 cals covered already,

There’s also a few rumors about feed issues with that steeper shoulder angle,

Your thoughts please.

I’d have no qualms regarding a standard .280 if that was my project, although I’d have to be killing stuff with it too.

I think there is more good 280 Improved brass available than regular 280, so in my opinion, if you want stuff that’s matching headstamp I’d go 280 Improved.

If you don’t care and make either from Lapua then I’d likely just stick with the regular 280. Today’s powders work great, get it set up for the bullet you like. The difference in capacity results in less than 100FPS at the same pressure.

You can’t really make a bad choice.

Brass and dies are available for both, but it takes timing and you will make a few concessions,

Example, I like the RCBS Matchmaster seater, but not available for the .284 line up.

Currently Nosler and Norma brass available for the .280,

Peterson brass currently available for the Ai, Tomorrow, who knows.

Honestly, with the sharper shoulders of the AI, you may find that brass will last longer.

Barrel life is going to be the same. It will have more to do with how you treat it than the difference in capacity.


There are good brass choices for either, but Lapua trumps anything available for either. If you're forming from Lapua, it really doesn't matter all that much.

In times of shortage, you can shoot .280 Rem brass from a .280 AI, but not vice versa.

Kenneth, your analysis is spot on. However I think you should be looking at it the other way around. By that I mean, 20 or so years ago that was the argument/discussion. The question was always, "Why should I vary from the more common and more readily available 280 Rem to the more niche 280 AI?". That discussion is now more properly reversed, in my opinion. The 280 AI is now more of common cartridge, comparatively speaking, than is the 280.

I'm a huge 280 fan with multiples of both the 280 Rem and the 280 AI. Having said all that, doing a project such as yours and starting from scratch, I'd go 280 AI over the 280; however, I would never feel the need to convert a 280 to a 280 AI. Heck, handloading you don't even have to get into the "5 extra grains of powder". I know I'm stating the obvious, it can be loaded just as a 280 or close (but no cigar) to the 7MM Mag.

“ The 280 AI is now more of common cartridge, comparatively speaking, than is the 280.”

Truth.

I should post a pic of my first Elk kill, 25 years ago,

Sako deluxe in .280. (Heavy, but should have never sold it)

Had no clue on fps or drops, B.C. And such……

One shot, He dropped……Remington 140 core-lokts if I recall.

Life was simpler back then it seems, All this data and ballistic masterbation now, clouds the mind.

280 Improved .
I ran a AI for many years.
The small amount of extra powder isn't going to change your barrel life significantly.
Now with factory cases seems like a no brainer.
Back in the day I used to blow cases for offhand practice. Then go full throttle for actual hunting rounds.
These days you can go anyway you choose for brass.
Pretty flexible.
The first time you fire form a 280 case if you measure it before and after. You will actually see it gets a few thousands of an inch shorter.
And the 40 degree shoulder just shuts down brass flow
No more trimming. Like for ever..
Have run the 280AI in several M700s.
Feeding has never been a issue.


dave

I would say to go the 280 ai route. It is the more common round these days. The benefit of Ackley Improved cartridges is the steep shoulders that reduce the frequency that you have to trim brass etc. should improve brass life unless you feel the need to load it hot.

Either is fine.

I've had several 280's, still have 2.

Great rounds, but does nothing a 270 doesn't do at all sane ranges.

But don't go into any LGS or big bix store & expect to find either on the shelf at any given time, so stock up on components for a good long while, especially powder these days.

MM

This is the "fire", I say 284 Winchester...

Talk about hard to find brass,

.284 was one of my options, Have not seen brass for it in many months.

It's out there and Peterson is making it for Graf & Son.

22" 280 SALAMI,Lapooey brass and 180 ELD's. Hint........................

I stand corrected, Graf & Son does have it in stock.

Ammoseek did not pick that up.

I've put together 2 280 AI's on Model 70s and have been very happy with how they turned out....in your case I don't see a downside.

Just make sure it's throated for the heavy stuff. That case is capable of 60 grain charges in a standard 280 rem. I'd think a 168 berger with some 4831 would get you where you wanna be.

When worrying about brass.........

.30/06 cases in a .280 FLS die headspaces for either 280 or AI.
AI fired cases resize equally well back to plain 280.
AI velocities are close to 30/06 velocities of the same/similar bullet weight in the same length barrels. What you pick up with 7mm, is a BC gain that helps longer range shooting compared to the 30/06.

Whether you can notice any difference in a hunting rifle over usual game and usual hunting ranges is a tougher argument to generate.

All the 7mm's I play with have a tendency to prove how good my .30/06 is if explored to the same degree and I really do like 7mm cartridges.

7x57 Mauser no brainer

I am a big fan of the 280 AI. Been shooting and loading for one for 30 years. Having said that, for the purposes you described I would not hesitate to build either one. I reload so I like the straight walls of the AI case. As far a feeding goes, I have a 280 AI built on a model 70 action and another built on a Rem 700 action. I have never experienced a single feeding problem with either. You really can't go wrong with either one.

Agree, this is the Fire...make up a 7mm Wby RPM! Neck up the 6.5 RPM or, neck down ( a couple of steps to do) the 338 RPM brass. That would be a doozy. Having said that, here's what I did...I was jinxed on the 7x57 ( I've had all the factory 7mm rds but the .284 Win and 7mm Wby Mag.( I just could not get the four in a row I tried to shoot right! I wanted what you described, a rifle to be shot more at targets than game. I didn't want a 7mm08 as I had been down that road, and wanted "an accurate 7x57 by jimmeny! ha I had a #2 Shilen SS put on a Mod 70 FWT donor, reamed in 7x57, 9" twist. Left the barrel at 25". I figured if I couldn't get it to shoot like I wanted, I could always have it reamed out to the 280 AI (which I had a Mod 700 Mountain Rifle reamed out back in '94 I believe. Only gained 50fps in that 22") So far, this 7x57 is wicked accurate (I've shot more Shilen than any other) and runs right with that first Mountain Rifle AI (used 150 NBT) with 150 ELDX! Long barrels are cheap velocity makers! Same thing, if one is not happy with them long, cut back all you want! That's just two options for you, but can you imagine what that 7mm RPM would be like? lol

I've had a 280AI for about 20 years and can tell you that a 140gr TSX on top of a case fulla Ramshot Hunter is hard to beat.
Gamekings and Accubonds work great too. My son is starting to hate trimming brass cases and has ask about Ackley'n his 6mmRem.

The only reason I would ever improve a cartridge is for brass life and the no need to trim deal. I wouldn't expect a whole lot of velocity increase, but you will have some. The more taper in the case, the better an improved version will be. A heavy bullet in the 280 improved would be cool, but it still won't out pace a good ol 7 rem mag. Sometimes we try to make cartridges into something they are not and never will be. The 280 ack is cool no doubt, but I'd stick with 150 grain range stuff to keep your velocity and bullet performance. One thing about it is, you won't go wrong with either cartridge.

Had a 6.5x06 that stretched brass like it was its job and would get 3 maybe 4 shots. I had a 6.5x06 improved that I would get 6 to 8 shots per case. Brass life was the same, both rifles shot a 140 vld within 50 fps of one another. I'm running a 280 9 twist right now and I had to trim after my 2nd firing.

I've set back 2- 280 Rems to 280AI and both shot a 140 bullets at 3220 to 3230 with 24" barrels very well with RL23 and 215 primers with RL22 they were 3180-3200.
As 280's only 2970-2980. The other 280AI shot 162 horny bullets at 3070 with 23. I know some guys who shoot 280AI's with 175 Bergers very well at 2970.

Are any of those loads pressure tested?

No. Do you pressure test everything?
Load development just like I've done with probably atleast 75 different rifles and cartridges.

I don't pressure test either, but I do operate more conservatively.

I can get a 140 to cruise 3100 out of my rifle, problem is when I did, the bolt had to be pried open and some of the primers fell out. Like I said earlier, sometimes we try to make a cartridge something it's not.

Have you looked at Nosler Data with 280AI and 140's plenty of loads with 140's at 3250 with 26" barrel

What is conservatively? I load for accuracy as long as I dont get ejector swipes, heavy bolt lift, etc
Freebore matters, bullets, powder etc

Have you considered maybe your combo has a problem? Look around mine are the norm not the exception.
I'm not making anything something its not, I guess Nosler is too.
Nosler data with 22 is 3266 ive shot enough 23 to know its 20fps better than 22

My load from back in the 1980s was 64g of H4831 with a 140g ballistic tip.24 inch Douglas.
3140 fps.
Ran it for about 20 years or so.
Piles of deer died.
Nothing within 500 yards was safe..



dave

Don't expect to use a saami reamer with anything bigger that a 140 bullet and expect to achieve its best speed without atleast throating it for intended bullet.

Then there is the "issue" of .280 AI vs .280 AI Saami.....

Since you are starting fresh I assume you'll go Saami. I have one of each.

Probably all ran away from that fly swatter

Around 63.5 of h4831 is when my bolt started saying stop.

And if I remember right that load was midway up my case neck

With apologies to the OP for going off topic .. I had a 6mm Rem AI .. mine was twitchy as f**k. It was a varmint rig with a 1-14" twist. I had the reamer made for the 75 grain VMAX .. a mistake. Should have gone with a bullet that had less of a pronounced shoulder. 70 grain ballistic tip probably. Anyway, the only powder it was accurate with was Win 760. I could shoot 50-100 rounds with it at the range without any problem but when I'd get up in the clear cuts to shoot squirrels I could only fire 3-4 shells in a morning before I'd start getting wild pressure problems. Never could get to the bottom of it. It wasn't barrel temperature or ammo temperature, those were cooler up on the mountain shootin' squirrels than they were at the range. I suspected hard powder fouling but why would that be an issue up on the mountain but not at the range? Eventually I punted it.

All I can tell you is I was exactly Noslers load 22 load with 23 and 63.0 with 22 with 140's.
I've had a couple guns that no matter how much powder I put in the case it wouldn't go anywhere. Example was a 338Wm with a 210NP and RL19 wouldnt go any faster than 2800 then when I switched to IMR 4350 it shot lights out at 2950. Another one was my 20BRA H4350 and RL16 wouldnt go anywhere either untill I switched to RL15

Haha
Back then I didn't mind the 50 yard stumble death run.
Never saw anything that resembled pressure with the 64g load with the 140 BT.
Didn't use a long drop tube.
Save that for the tards.
Lyman turbo tumbler is your friend.
Dave

I use my 30” black powder tube….

I’ve had excellent luck with 280’s. I also have a custom high dollar heavy barreled 280AI.
Either would be good, but I like my standard 280’s.

I'd go with the improved version. I have two. I would also go 8 twist to shoot the longer bullets. You'll be amazed.

There really isn't much of a reason not to go with the standard 280 unless you would have to fireform brass to get the AI shoulder. Buy 200 Peterson brass and be set for many, many years.

I have a #1 in 280, a Colt Light Rifle in 280 AI and an unfired Colt Light Rifle in 284 Won.
On a 700 action, I would go with a long throated 280 AI for practical reasons. If you are an oddball, like me, I'd go 284 Win throated for you favorite long bullet.

You guys going with a specific throat for a particular bullet,

Your assuming that rifle will like that particular bullet the best,

Then I’ll assume your shooting from Bench mainly, on paper?

I spec all my LR hunting reamers with a Berger the grain to Caliber, either I send a dummy to JGS or I tell them what freebore I want. Out of probably 2 dozen hunting rifles I've done load development for only 1 didn't shoot that great and that was because the chamber was crooked. I shoot from a bench but only from a bipod and only at paper never steel and all my final.load development is between 600-700 yards
I have throated 2 barrels 1 was a 280AI to shoot the Horny 162 that the owner insisted on shooting and it was chambered with a saami reamer

A 168 berger in a 280 improved would be nice

I know RL23 is all but ubtanum but Viht 560 or 165 may be worth a shot. If you throat the 168's to get the bearing surface- nk shoulder junction just out of the donut area my guess it would be a very good combo.
If you can get some RL23 215 Feds have did better than no mag primers. I helped a BR shooter I know who was struggling to get the 175 accubonds I think that was the gr somewhere in there to shoot, he was using RL26 with non mag primers and he asked me what primer I used i told him 215 in all 3 he called me back and said the 215's were the ticket.
I tried RL26 i could never get it to shoot as good as 23 always a little bit of a flyer but I know some do.
Coyote you ever come through Havre I would give you some to try but man unless something changes I would look at Viht powders

Viht powders are out there and more reasonable than ever. Not saying 26 ain't awesome, as is 23, but Viht has been pretty great in more than a few things since H became the same price.

Never played with 26 or 23. Shot a bunch of 25 though.

I 100% agree, I probably won't buy anymore Alliant powders once what I have is gone.
I'm using more Viht these days like 568 in my 30-28 and im gonna try and shoot a ladder at 660yds with 565 and 180 Berger in a friends 300WM if the wind allows it at daylight in the mourning.
I bought 8 pound jugs of 568 and 565 right as this madness was getting started. I had used 570 but I dont like how its so hard on throats.

25 would be worth a try in your 280AI if you got it.
What I like about 23 and 26 instead of 22 and 25 is there more stabile 23 is really stable, some claim 26 gets bad above 80 deg but I dont ever shoot when its that hot or hunt so I couldn't tell you.

Have had several of both. I sold all of my 280’s and kept my best two 280 AI’s.

Once I started working with the AI I was hooked for the rest of my natural born life.

Since powders are being brought up,

I have H4350 and IMR4350 on hand, both suitable, also Varget Thoughts or comments on these ?

I hear it is pretty tough on throats. I guess for the rifles I use it in, they don't get pounded on too hard yearly, but man, is that stuff fast in the cases where it fits. I have heard 560 was the stuff to have for a 280.

.284 Win

"I have H4350 and IMR4350 on hand, both suitable, also Varget Thoughts or comments on these ?"

I have owned both, and now having a Kimber lightweight I would never go back to the 280. The AI adds a little more punch, and has some have stated, "more is better". Of course, the venerable 06, 270, 280, 284, 280 AI, are all pretty much ballistically similar, but I will be staying with the AI. Last fall at my preseason tune up I managed to shoot a .50 inch 3 shot group at 300 yards, with a 160 AB and H4350. That same day my 300 WM turned in a 2.25 inch group with that same powder and the 180 AB.

I cant get enough 568 in my 30-28 to get to the 3085 with the 215 like H1000. Now in a 28 Nos with 195's 568 shoots awesome at 3050 with 26" barrel
570 won't even get me to the next node in my 30-28 I pressure out at 3185 need to get about 3220 thats 30NMI territory so I stuck with H1000 at 3085 it shoots really well there with the 215 Berger

568 sounds like it'll be good in the big 7's and maybe in my RUM. I'll have to keep an eye out for it. Like we were BSin earlier, its available and its the same or less than H powders and definitely less than Alliant.

568 is slower than 570, I can get enough 570.in my 30-28
If you can get enough in the case dont give up on it because of speed numbers, what I like about 568 it is very consistent E.S numbers evertime ive tried it seems to like Fed 215 primers not saying a CCI 250 won't work but 215's worked the best in 3 rifles I've tried it so far in.
I think there might be enough room in a 7 mag with 180 class bullet im gonna try it in my Nephews 7 mag I load for.

Did you mean to say 568 was a slower burning powder than 570?

In the 280 Remington 65.7 grains produced 3132 FPS with 140 TTSX

For the 280 I used 270 Winchester 130 load data for the 140 TTSX since the two have nearly the same SD. I wanted to load the 280 to the same pressure as the 270 Winchester

In my experience it is

In a plain Jane 280?

Gotcha, they must be fairly close in burn rate. Maybe a little lot difference between the two accounts for it? No clue, but I am sure it rips.


I do a pretty easy 3100 and change with RL26 and a 140 PT or Sierra Pro Hunter in my old 725. About the same as a 130 of similar bullets does in my 270's with the same length barrel.

Yes, just a plain Jane 280

Back in Oz, we used a lot of AR2209/H4350 in the .300 Win Mag with all bullet weights and it always was a great combination and generated full ballistics again, with all bullet weights. That powder has a huge scope of suitability. Had mates who bought it in 250 pound barrels.

It's working pretty well in my old 300 H&H as well. It took me awhile to come around to it, but I can't say I am disappointed a bit.

I’ve had a grand total of 1 280 - an ADL stainless Rem 700 Mtn Rifle I got 30 years ago. Today, I’d do the 280AI, and I don’t like AI anything. As has been pointed out, it’s probably surpassed the standard 280 in popularity and brass availability. I’d think it would make a dandy suppressed cartridge with an 18” bbl.

My cousin and I went to get a couple shotguns back around the early 2000's when I was home on leave. Well, they had a used 280 Mtn Rifle with the 3x9 Leupold Compact on it, for 550 bucks on the used rack. I looked it over and I told him, this is a good one.. He said should I get it? I said if you don't, I am. Well, he got it and a box of Green/Yellow box 140 Core Losers and when we got home, I set a piece of plywood up, paced off a 100 and we shot 3 rounds over a picnic table over a rolled up wool coat... That stupid thing made a 3 shot cluster... I was sorta mad, cause man, it was quite nice

I wouldn't let components scare you with the availability. 280 rem stuff is everywhere. Brass life, like said ten times before, will be better with the improved version. But your real world velocity increase will be 150 fps max, which is alot, but it's only about 2.5 inches at 500 yards. Depending on bullet selection, you may see no difference at all. I went 9 twist and don't regret it, but an 8 will only be better. A straight up 280 with any quality bullet will knock stuff over no problem. Your in a good predicament, cause whatever you choose will be the right thing!

If you load the standard 280 to the same pressure as the AI version there is only enoigh powder capacity increase for about 40 FPS more velocity.

For 140 grain bullets in the 280 use 270 Winchester 130 grain, since they are nearly identical SD

Just for comparison and I know things can be changed as far as throat lengths and one powder or another can change stuff, but when I run these both to 65000PSI they aren't super far apart.

Cartridge : .280 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 162, Hornady ELD-M 28403
Useable Case Capaci: 58.689 grain H2O = 3.811 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.869% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-08.7 100 52.50 2561 2359 46935 11132 92.9 1.257
-07.8 101 53.00 2587 2408 48370 11255 93.4 1.240
-07.0 102 53.50 2614 2457 49855 11376 93.9 1.222
-06.1 103 54.00 2640 2507 51390 11494 94.3 1.205
-05.2 104 54.50 2667 2558 52977 11609 94.7 1.189
-04.3 105 55.00 2693 2609 54617 11721 95.2 1.172
-03.5 106 55.50 2720 2661 56318 11830 95.6 1.155 ! Near Maximum !
-02.6 107 56.00 2746 2713 58071 11936 95.9 1.139 ! Near Maximum !
-01.7 107 56.50 2773 2766 59896 12039 96.3 1.123 ! Near Maximum !
-00.9 108 57.00 2800 2820 61781 12139 96.7 1.108 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 109 57.50 2827 2874 63733 12235 97.0 1.092 ! Near Maximum !
+00.9 110 58.00 2854 2929 65756 12327 97.3 1.077 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.7 111 58.50 2880 2984 67855 12416 97.6 1.062 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.6 112 59.00 2907 3040 70030 12501 97.9 1.047 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.5 113 59.50 2934 3097 72288 12582 98.2 1.033 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.3 114 60.00 2961 3154 74628 12658 98.4 1.018 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 109 57.50 2967 3166 76446 12169 99.9 1.012 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 109 57.50 2643 2513 51992 11690 90.1 1.196


Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 162, Hornady ELD-M 28403
Useable Case Capaci: 64.805 grain H2O = 4.208 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.330 inch = 84.58 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Powder : Hodgdon H4831 *T

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.813% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-08.1 97 56.50 2631 2490 48395 12092 94.6 1.251
-07.3 98 57.00 2656 2537 49749 12209 95.0 1.234
-06.5 99 57.50 2680 2584 51143 12324 95.3 1.219
-05.7 100 58.00 2705 2632 52580 12437 95.7 1.203
-04.9 101 58.50 2729 2680 54059 12546 96.1 1.188
-04.1 102 59.00 2754 2728 55586 12653 96.4 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
-03.3 102 59.50 2779 2777 57156 12757 96.7 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
-02.4 103 60.00 2803 2827 58768 12858 97.0 1.143 ! Near Maximum !
-01.6 104 60.50 2828 2877 60425 12956 97.3 1.128 ! Near Maximum !
-00.8 105 61.00 2853 2928 62129 13051 97.6 1.114 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 106 61.50 2878 2979 63885 13142 97.9 1.100 ! Near Maximum !
+00.8 107 62.00 2902 3030 65696 13230 98.1 1.086 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+01.6 108 62.50 2927 3082 67563 13314 98.4 1.072 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.4 109 63.00 2952 3134 69488 13395 98.6 1.059 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.3 109 63.50 2977 3187 71474 13472 98.8 1.045 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.1 110 64.00 3001 3240 73523 13546 99.0 1.032 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 106 61.50 3013 3265 76121 12968 100.0 1.020 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 106 61.50 2698 2618 52113 12655 91.6 1.203





It's about what I've seen as well, loading them both the same. I also haven't seen this massive growth of brass from a standard 280 if you Partial FL size them and don't set them back more than needed on resizing.

Yea. Standard case for the win.

They say the 280 Ackley is one of the most overloaded ones of the bunch. I think it's really a great one, but a 7 Rem it aint.

Yup. Can't beat or keep pace with the 7 rem. Cartridges are what they are and you can't make them something their not.

This depends on the particular sizing die being used.

I load a lot of 308 Winchester ammo and I've gathered a number of FL sizing dies. They do work the brass differently. One of them in particular will lengthen the brass noticeably more than my Forster, even when both are adjusted to provide the same amount of shoulder setback.

For sure MM, I am speaking generally. I just don't have as much an issue with brass growth as some I see having with the 06/270/06 type cases.

I bought a Rem 280 mtn rifle in mid 80's shot it untill about 2000 got tired of fighting that pencil barrel so I put a Lilja #4 on it in 2000 then about 2008 set it back and my brother's Browning 280 to 280AI. When I was load them as plain 280 Rem I could not get mine over 2950 and my Brothers over 2980 without ejector swipes. I took the same Rem brass and fireformed it to 280AI and ran them both over 3200 with RL23 no pressure signs. We can argue all day long about it I know what was before and after only thing that changed was the AI.Everybody argues about load data and always referr to book loads, Does Nosler and Barnes got it wrong? Quick load is not always right either when the 30 Nosler came out they missed it by a mile.
Do you actually think Nosler and Barnes would put data out there they didn't think was safe?

For the curious, I went with the .280AI version,

Brass is on the way……

Appreciate all the moral support in these difficult decisions we find ourselves in………(Grin)

Just wait till i start the scope needed thread,, Could be epic………..

You won't regret it.

Can't wait LOL

Those book loads are whimpy. Their max is where I usually start.
3200 out of your ack sounds like a monster. To The OP, congrats. Your gonna love your new rifle.

I think you'll be happy.
Use quality components.
And you'll get quality results.
The 280 AI is still one of my favorites.


dave

I wouldn't argue a bit and believe your numbers. I think the 280 Rem is a 58K so book loads are watered pretty heavily while the Ackley is a 65K cartridge. Makes a decent difference.



This is how the old M725 lays down 140's, so you adding 75-100 on top of that seems entirely possible (plus another 2" of barrel). This was in Hornady brass which isn't nothing great to speak of. But I can't make a pocket loosen or get swipes or any of that. Both of them are pretty great cartridges. But book to book, the 280 Ackley is a much easier deal if you want full speed stuff without the guesswork.

Gotta remember 15 years ago there was no RL26 and some of the othere " speedier" powders we have today.
I used imr 4350 and RL19 in my 280. In the low 3000 fps is all it would go in both with ejector swipes. I used RL19 when it first came out. 2 other guys at the time I knew that had 280 Rem both could only get in the 2975 range too..

For sure Sherm, I'd agree with that. Plain old H4831 worked decent enough in my 7600 with 145 LRX's and if there was a gun to be grumpy about pressures or show signs it'd be one of them.



Either way, a fella can't make a bad choice between the two of them.

I run A4350 in mine with a 139 sst. For now. Next bullet is gonna be a 150 cx and AB. I was able to work up to 55 grains where the load slammed shut on paper. Shot deer at 100 yards all the way to 450 with it. Typical 1 3/4" high at 100 and was able to dial the 16-17" low at 400 and so one. That sst is a whitetail bullet deluxe. Bit messy, but dead is dead. Shot a large bodied mule deer buck with it this year at about 150 yards and that bullet opened immediately. Tore him up but penetration was lacking. Acted more like a v max. I know a 140 partition would do it if I needed to kill bigger game.
BTW. I couldn't get mine to shoot better than an inch with 4831. Started with A4350 and the 3rd load, all of which were inside a quarter, hit in a rag hole.
I was (am) a big 30-06 fan with 150s and 165s. You can move that 150 with an 06, but a 280 rem and a 140 or 168 is just superior in my opinion. I wouldn't hesitate to build another 280 or 280 ai.

Yep, me too. As much as I loved my many 280’s, I have only kept one. They were all superseded by two 280 AI’s and I won’t go back. It was an easy decision when my first load development session with the AI produced 3200 fps with 140’s at 100 yd with 1/4 moa. That is with 63 gr VV165.

No guesswork. Love it.