Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Poll: Drill or Not Drill

Let's assume a fellow has a very nice S&W Model 14-3 of late 1960's vintage, like most Model 14's it's very accurate, is in Very Good to Excellent shape with finish about 98% or even better, and came from the factory with a target trigger and hammer. Further assume this fellow's ability to resolve sights and target together has diminished somewhat, but he can still lay'em in the bullseye as good as ever with a reflex sight.

Would you drill and tap the top strap to mount a reflex sight - it only requires one hole under the rear sight leaf - or leave it original for whatever collector value it may have and use that as an excuse to go look for some K-frame .38 in much lesser condition to d&t?

So - drill or not drill?






I know which way I'm, uh, I mean this hypothetical fellow is leaning, but just curious of other's opinions on d&t this particular hypothetical Model 14 or any other older "collectible" revolver in general.

I just sold a new in the box K-38 Target Masterpiece that I had since the 1980's. Would never dream of drilling one.

I wouldn't do an LS swap on an original 56 Vet for the same reason. Some things you just don't do.

I wouldn't drill it.

There’s a lot of 14s out there, not like you’re D&T a Triple Lock Target.

If it’s truly near mint I’d sell it and buy a worn one to D&T and have the money for base, new reflex sight, gunsmith fee, and maybe a bullet mold or ammo. Or maybe I’d buy two well used ones to fool with depending on what the nice one brought.

But if you’re set on keeping the one in question and an optic is the only way you’ll be able to enjoy it, I’d say drill baby drill.

You can get a Taurus TORO, optics-ready revolver very affordably, without drilling a nice classic revolver.

Example,

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting...ainlessblack-revolver-6-rounds/p/1818136

Did you buy it to shoot and enjoy or to sit in the safe as an investment to sell later?

That’s all I’d need to know.

I say drill baby drill.

It is yours ....drill the fooker.

Drill. They are great revolvers, but not exactly unobtanium and rocketing in value. It is not like you are destroying the finish or adding visible screw holes on the side of it. Use it and enjoy it. I have a 14-2 6" and may someday do the same for the reason you describe.

Unless you plan to sell it or give it away as a pristine family heirloom, do what makes you happy. You don't owe anything to a chunk of steel and wood. Heck, you may be benefiting some person down the road by allowing him to buy something he ordinarily couldn't afford in pristine condition. (How's that for an enabling justification?)

Wait...we're having a discussion about whether a guy can justify buying another gun, when he's already got the reason all lined up and ready to go?!

Is this a trick question??

Actually: Drill the first gun AND buy the 2nd gun! Put red dots on both of them! How old are you now, Jim? 88? 92? Get whatever you want and bang away until the Lord punches your ticket!

OK...I know you won't do that (even though you should). I vote for drilling the existing gun. You like it; it shoots well; you shoot it well; and, you'll get more satisfaction at the range, shooting a gun you like and have had a long time. Any reduction in value is more than offset by your happiness. You deserve to be happy.

Make it yours and don’t hide it away.

Do whatever you want, but I wouldn't drill it.

Drill baby drill

If it's part of your 401G to cash out on retirement then don't.

If you just want to leave it as issued so your family can make money on it after you're gone, then drill it and enjoy the gun.

You damn betcha.

While I personally don't care a lick about putting stuff like that on a handgun, I see the value to guys who do. If I felt otherwise I would drill the SOB and sleep soundly afterwards. What I wouldn't drill under any circumstances would be, for example, an absolutely mint pre-war Officer's Model or General Patton's SAA if it dropped into my lap. Such examples define historical/collectable value. Hell, I'd drill a nifty Colt Python if it suited me to in order to shoot it better (but thank god I don't care fothose kind of sights so it's a moot point). When I'm gone I won't care if value is subtracted, I'll be dead.

Sell as is, buy another in lesser condition to drill is what I would do.

I'd sell them for $25 at a gun buyback.

Just kidding. Remember this one?

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You will get both answers & only you can decide. If you think you might ever get rid of it, then don't do it. If you plan on keeping it until your dying days & hand it down then enjoy it, that's what you got it for so why not get the most fun out of it while you can.

Dick

A gun is just a tool that is meant to be used, so i say drill it and enjoy it.
A gun sitting in a safe , never to be fired seems senseless to me.
Collect stamps if you want something to save!

I suspect that in the long run the hit to the gun's value by drilling that hole will be less than you fear, but that wouldn't have stopped me anyway in all likelihood.

it's my gun, and if I choose to make a change that enhances it's usefulness to me, I don't need herd validation.

This one is very neat and tidy. I’d check with them about fit since yours isn’t factory drilled. Might be a topstrap difference, might not. I have one on my 620.

https://allchingunparts.com/products/smith-wesson-mini-sts-scope-mount.html

The allchin is decent.... and no biggie to d&t it.

I think if it were me, I would keep my old beauty as is and buy a newer S&W that is already drilled under the rear sight and ready to accept a mount. I have a newer Pro Series L-frame that is very well put together and has a great action that will be getting a dot sight on top at some point soon. It is a simple matter of removing the rear sight and sliding a rail mount into the sight recess and screwing it down in the three existing holes.

Yes, it has the lock and hole in the side plate. It is the only S&W that I own with the hole. I will remove it and plug the hole just because. With that said, the workmanship of this newer S&W is very well done. I am picky and I have some beautiful old revolvers to compare it to and it holds up quite well in comparison of fit, finish, smoothness, trigger, and accuracy. The gun in question isn't a traditional old S&W, this is a Pro Series gun with the flats on the barrel and in stainless steel so adding a red dot is right in line with this gun's genre. Adding a red dot to my old M17, M19, or M15 would give me the vapors.

Jim in Idaho: NO DRILL! Please.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
P.S.: Get better glasses suited to handgun shooting with open sights. I am NOT sure what they are referred to as but I have two friends that use them.

If you plan on selling it, dont drill. If you intend on keeping it and shooting it, drill away. I dont think it would effect the value much anyway, you wouldnt even see it with the sight on.

Appreciate the comments. I was thinking I might be called a philistine or worse for even thinking such a thing, but so far so good.

After thinking about this and pondering some alternatives I'm going to keep the 14-3 undrilled

There was a short period from 1994 to 1997 when Model 14's and 15's were d&t from the factory and before they changed the internal lockwork. Also, Model 67's from 1993 up until 2002 when they introduced the Hillary hole were d&t. There is a gunshow this weekend so I'll poke around and see what's available.


I actually have a d&t Hillary hole Model 67 that wears a Burris Fastfire III. It was made right before they stopped making the 67's altogether a few years ago but it's "problematic". It was decently accurate but had a heavy trigger, difficulty opening the cylinder and the biggest problem was an inch long stretch of one lousy groove that leaded like crazy. After a new rebound spring, stoning the ejector rod locking bolt, firelapping the bore, manually polishing the bore and using Veral Smith's bubba method of opening cylinder throats to .358" it has a very good trigger, the cylinder opens normally and it is now extremely accurate. But that one stretch of one groove STILL LEADS, even with coated bullets.

It's like getting a tutor and a private trainer for a kid so he now makes excellent grades and is first string on the varsity team, but still picks his boogers and eats them at the dinner table. You're proud of him but he's f*cking annoying as hell.

Also have an early 90's Model 15-6 with a 6" barrel that is a Model 14 in all but name only - same barrel and rib contour. 100% finish, classic S&W great trigger, standard rifling (not trapezoidal EDM), hammer mounted firing pin - most of the things that make most people desire the older Smiths less a pinned barrel. And it's also accurate.

The 6" Model 15's are actually much scarcer than Model 14's since few of them were made but nobody seems to know or even care about them as collector pieces. If all else comes to naught that's the one I'll probably d&t.

I like 14s and 15s but the only one I really desire that I don’t have is one of the full lug 15s from the 1990’s. I think they have to be close to the ultimate evolution of the 38 plinking revolver. Pretty tough to come by though.

Ask and ye shall receive.

Perused gunbroker after my last post above and found a Model 15-7 for a reasonable price in today's market (very reasonable compared to the unrealistic demands of the scalpers at the local gun shows). The -7 was the first of the series S&W drilled and tapped from the factory.

Called the seller this morning to ask some questions and get a serial number to find it was made in 1995. That's the second year of this dash and made before they changed the cylinder release profile and changed the release, hammer and trigger to MIM parts and moved the firing pin off of the hammer. One tiny ding in the finish on the left side but overall it's in great shape.

Just finished the gunbroker checkout so if all goes well it should be here next week.


It's not a pre-war classic or even one like they made in the 50's and 60's, but it is exactly what I was hoping to find. I am happy.

Very nice 15-7! Great purchase

Picked up this 15-7 from my FFL guy today.

You see a lot of ads for guns that say "looks unfired" which always struck me as particularly disingenuous since I can clean up a gun to "look unfired", but I gotta say, this one actually looks unfired for real.

There is only the tiniest hint of a turn line on the cylinder that doesn't penetrate the finish at all. The forcing cone and the top strap above it is absolutely pristine without a trace of fouling and the bluing on the recoil shield is barely touched. This was bought from a pawn shop with no box or papers so I'm guessing it may have been purchased three decades ago, the new owner played with it a bit but never fired it and just stuck it in a drawer, then his widow sold it.

Whatever the story, it is in almost brand new out of the box condition. Took the sideplate off to put in a 14 pound rebound spring, that lowered the SA pull from 4.5 to 3 pounds. It was dry as a bone inside so I judiciously oiled it and put it back together, then mounted a Burris Fastfire III in the factory drilled holes - which was the whole reason for buying this in the first place.

Only fly in the ointment is the chamber throats are extremely tight; very uniform but tight. A .3565" pin gauge fits in each one with no play while a .3570" gauge won't enter. Oh well, looks like I'll be renting a throat reamer.

Just typing this while the lunch traffic abates, then will go put a hundred rounds through it to see what it does.

So...how'd it shoot?

I would be on the no end..
there's so many options out there today to sight a different way than to change something with that much age.

Pretty good, thank you.

Got the Fastfire mounted and went to an indoor range since it was raining here today. Sighted it in by kneeling down and resting my hands on a folded up sweatshirt then fired the rest of the rounds from a normal standing two hand hold.

My general purpose target load is 3.5 gr. of 231 and a Missouri Bullet Company coated 148 DEWC, they come sized .358. With the very undersized throats there was just a tiny bit of light leading right at the beginning of the barrel. That was after 56 rounds total today and it cleaned up with just a few strokes of a brush.

First 10 shots at 10 yards after getting sighted in. Targets are 2" squares on printer paper. That vertical stringing is all my fault.



Ran a fresh target out to 20 yards and put three full cylinders into it. Muffed a few shots but overall did pretty good. I honestly can't say at this time if those flyers are in part due to the undersize throats or just me. Or maybe it was the distraction of the guy doing mag dumps in the stall next to me. Yeah, that's it, that's the ticket...




In the past I'd open up throats by wrapping sandpaper around a mandrel stuck in an electric drill and going at each throat free hand, but this one is going to get treated to a bona fide .358" throat reamer from 4D Rentals. Will order one tomorrow and once the throats are opened up I'll take it to the outdoor range to work up some specific loads over a good rest.

Overall I'm definitely happy with this. It has all of the classic S&W features except a pinned barrel and unlike my recent manufactured Model 67, everything works very smoothly like it should. It was one of the last ones they made before they started changing everything.

Nice and a round butt to boot.

Heck no.

If it were mine and it only took one hole under the rear sight that wouldn’t be visible if yo reinstalled the sight, I’d drill it and make good use of it.

If I want to protect the value S&W firearms go back to S&W, Colt to Colt, Ruger to Ruger, etc. I keep the invoice for the work and provide it to the buyer. I've never noticed any decrease in value as a result.

Case in point, if this 14-3 was drilled & tapped and it was documented factory work it would get a 100% pass from me. I wouldn't give you a nickel for the Model 15 with the sandpaper job.