Everyone has an opinion Here's mine, I live with Elk and fight them off my Haystack yard all winter. I have shot Bull Elk on my land under ideal conditions, and many, many in the surrounding mountains. I don't carry hard recoiling magnums, have used a .243 win . The .243 with a tough bullet will work in good conditions and it is superior to the 30/30 with any bullet. I have used the ftx and Hornady doesn't recommend its use on Elk. It always separates- everytime, imo
The age-old question, "at what point in the elk's demise did the bullet fail to perform."
You’re missing the point.
P
Usually when people say “at what point in the elk’s demise did the bullet fail to perform” they lack foresight to efficacy.
LOL. I don't hunt elk with a .30-30 or an FTX bullet, last time I rifle hunted elk it was with a .300 Weatherby and hand-loaded Barnes TTSXs so my "foresight" and "efficacy" are just fine.
I just don't jump on the bandwagon with all of the pearl-clutching Karens who get offended when someone else does something they wouldn't. The fact is, the guy put in a lot of work to be able to pull off the shot and the elk died. All the "what ifs" are just noise from the peanut gallery.
Everyone has an opinion Here's mine, I live with Elk and fight them off my Haystack yard all winter. I have shot Bull Elk on my land under ideal conditions, and many, many in the surrounding mountains. I don't carry hard recoiling magnums, have used a .243 win . The .243 with a tough bullet will work in good conditions and it is superior to the 30/30 with any bullet. I have used the ftx and Hornady doesn't recommend its use on Elk. It always separates- everytime, imo
It is good to hear the voice of experience. While I like the guns 30/30s are chambered in, the caliber is found wanting out west. What no one will admit to is the number of animals wounded. The 243 is a far superior caliber for open country than the 30-30 and has far more "killing" ability from my experiences as well. And to repeat myself I like the 30-30 and carry one in my truck. I have never used the Hornady flex tip but from the experiences of others, the bullet is quite fragile and susceptible of early breakup. Some people think this a plus, I like a bullet to hold together.
All the "what ifs" are just noise from the peanut gallery.
Yea like I said. Which is hilarious as F because brobee223 had a hundreds of “what ifs” and still went ahead with a plan. How that differs is that your point is regardless of the outcome of his bullet testing, if the elk is dead, the bullet testing never matter. Which is pretty contradictory to your appeasement of his hard work. You’re quite emotionally conflicted. Btw unless bullets do not live up to mfg. claims, they don’t fail.
You applauded him for putting in the work, where he what iffed dozens of questions, successfully killed an elk based on decisions he made from what iffing. Then you came by saying the bullet didn’t fail because the elk was dead and that all the whatt iffing done is coming from the peanut gallery. So I guess he was part of the peanut gallery. Congrats
Everyone has an opinion Here's mine, I live with Elk and fight them off my Haystack yard all winter. I have shot Bull Elk on my land under ideal conditions, and many, many in the surrounding mountains. I don't carry hard recoiling magnums, have used a .243 win . The .243 with a tough bullet will work in good conditions and it is superior to the 30/30 with any bullet. I have used the ftx and Hornady doesn't recommend its use on Elk. It always separates- everytime, imo
It is good to hear the voice of experience. While I like the guns 30/30s are chambered in, the caliber is found wanting out west. What no one will admit to is the number of animals wounded. The 243 is a far superior caliber for open country than the 30-30 and has far more "killing" ability from my experiences as well. And to repeat myself I like the 30-30 and carry one in my truck. I have never used the Hornady flex tip but from the experiences of others, the bullet is quite fragile and susceptible of early breakup. Some people think this a plus, I like a bullet to hold together.
I don't know about elk, never shot one but I've killed a shytload of deer with a .30-30 {nearly 100} and a .243 {a couple dozen} and would have to disagree that the .243 is better at killing deer than the .30-30 at woods ranges at least with cup and core bullets. Never used any "premium" monolithic, partitioned or bonded bullets in either so can't say if that changes anything.
But the video shows how the crimp location in his opinion predicting separation. The FTX crimp is much lower in the 308 MX bullets. The ones I have experience with.
"Shoot low sheriff, I think he's riding a shetland!" B. Wills
Everyone has an opinion Here's mine, I live with Elk and fight them off my Haystack yard all winter. I have shot Bull Elk on my land under ideal conditions, and many, many in the surrounding mountains. I don't carry hard recoiling magnums, have used a .243 win . The .243 with a tough bullet will work in good conditions and it is superior to the 30/30 with any bullet. I have used the ftx and Hornady doesn't recommend its use on Elk. It always separates- everytime, imo
comrade, It's hard to understand why he would start with a 30/30 platform, FTX, at 340 yds.. other than for youtube clicks. And for that, he's a pos for risking that animal. Fk him.
Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want.
I enjoyed the video. I looked it up on Youtube and below that one was a moose hunt in Newfoundland with a Savage pump 30-30.
On my first moose hunt to Newfoundland, we had guides and a camp cook who were family. They told us their moose hunts were family affairs in which the family members helped carry out the moose and shared the meat. When I asked them what they used to hunt moose, they said Win. 94 30-30s. Link to the Newfie hunt below.
interesting isn't it, the old 30 cal got a reputation by doing 150's for deer 170's or 180's for the big stuff, then you transpose that subjective and you get to starting sd's around .2 for deer and .25 for the big stuff as rule of thumb goals for class sizes of game
there's lots further one can take terminal ballistics discussions from there but that's sort of origin stories levels
in the 30 gr of powder class you can go a lot further now with the modern stuff like 6 arc and 6.5 grendel, you keep those sd's up there and the high bc's simply extend distances to similar impact velocities and now you can take things at 750 yards or further on the extreme ends with 30 grains of powder with a 21st century cartridge, there are 400 yard bull elk on the 6.5 grendel, there is a 658 yard mature muley buck out there on it also, there's also a 752 yard antelope out there from a 24" AR, and the new ARC will undoubtedly rack up some kills further as it's even higher bc's will allow the extreme end of shooters another 150-170 yards to similar impact velocities...
brobee no doubt mirrored that sort of 'extreme end' of possibility with the most modern bullet for such an old 19th century cartridge, getting all that on film is pretty remarkable imo, I've run a 6.5 grendel with 123's in Alberta for 6 seasons straight in Alberta with 7 species of big game and 20 animals between me and my kids and 10-420 yards and it's been nothing but pleasant surprises, average shot distance around 160-165 and recovery distance around 10 yards over all that time and animals, I look at the grendel as triple the effective range of the 30-30 (usual 150-170gr bullets of course), easy 400 yard cartridge in a 16" barrel, 24" adds another 120 yards no prob
we didn't film our stuff but took it far enough to understand what we were getting into and 6 seasons deep it's beyond proven we understood the available information in terminal ballistics just fine
you can do more with 30 grains of powder than you think, there are many options now, that 30-30 resurrection though is about as far an example as you'll ever see imo, that was the outer limit, the lady who killed the largest grizzly with a .22 type shizzo lol
Good question Angus, leaving the ft lbs of energy debate out of it for a moment, let's accept the 1,000 ft lbs so often repeated in the past by many writers. The .30-30 book max with the 160 FT delivers 800 ft lbs at the 340 mark as squoted in the video....any .308 180 gr launched at an easy 2700 fps will deliver 1080 ft lbs at 600 yards. So can we agree that the .30-06 is more likely to be limited by the shooters skill, than run out of steam at reasonable hunting ranges?
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Good question Angus, leaving the ft lbs of energy debate out of it for a moment, let's accept the 1,000 ft lbs so often repeated in the past by many writers.
I'll accept 1,000 ft-lbs of energy when you (or anyone) can tell me what it's based on.
Ok Smokey, we'll use the quantifiable metric you recommend, since the math of kinetic energy doesn't appeal. Compare the 30-30 BC, velocity and weight with the 30-06 BC, velocity, and weight. Taylors KO? CXP 1,2,3? Momentum=mv?
Last edited by flintlocke; 02/01/24.
Well this is a fine pickle we're in, should'a listened to Joe McCarthy and George Orwell I guess.
Good question Angus, leaving the ft lbs of energy debate out of it for a moment, let's accept the 1,000 ft lbs so often repeated in the past by many writers.
I'll accept 1,000 ft-lbs of energy when you (or anyone) can tell me what it's based on.
Ok Smokey, we'll use the quantifiable metric you recommend, since the math of kinetic energy doesn't appeal. Compare the 30-30 BC, velocity and weight with the 30-06 BC, velocity, and weight. Taylors KO? CXP 1,2,3? Momentum=mv?
No, I prefer a much simpler equation that accounts for all variables, known and unknown:
Good question Angus, leaving the ft lbs of energy debate out of it for a moment, let's accept the 1,000 ft lbs so often repeated in the past by many writers.
I'll accept 1,000 ft-lbs of energy when you (or anyone) can tell me what it's based on.
I'll be waiting.
In Canada they probably use 1,000 Newton Meters.
No, in Canada it's decimeter-kilograms (dm-kg) and everyone knows that 1,000 dm-kg are the minimum acceptable for elk. I thought everybody knew that, gunwriters have been saying it for years.
