Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters On The Cheap-- 223 Small Game Loads

I've messed with a number of reduced loads in the .223 but the best was from our own JB...12.5 Gr of 4198 and a basic 55 gr Hornady SP..It gets about 1950 fps...essentially the same as a .22 mag.
Lots of cottontails have succumbed to head shots with that load, as its easily effective out to 100 yards.

Not the 223 but I’ve used Alliant 2400, IMR 4759 (discontinued) and IMR 4227 in the 22 Hornet, 221 Fireball and 222 Rem to work up 22 Magnum type loads with Speer’s 46 gr FP, Sierra’s 40 and 45 gr Hornet bullets. Winchester’s 22 MRF 40 gr JHPs worked at, or a little below 22 Mag velocities.

Yeah, cost saving is also a big factor. Has to be with me or my diet would be hot dogs and beans more often than it already is!

What about a .357/.38? Something like a Ruger 77/357. I would think mild, accurate, cheap loads would be easier to make up in .38 cases than .223. Of course, buying a new rifle doesn’t make alot of sense from a saving money standpoint.

If you are sticking with .223, I don’t think you will beat the cost of 55gr FMJ by reloading. Might as well just use a .22 mag.

We eat well here, but venison, some fish we catch, and the garden/orchard make up a goodly portion. My fun money goes for a couple or three rounds of clays each week, rum, and food for my yard pets. I oughta be able to claim those greedy little bastards on my taxes; $45 today for black oil seed, shelled corn, and ear corn. Pretty fun though when I go out each morning and whistle them in: squirrels, blue jays, and even a woodpecker or two. Always thought woodpeckers were kinda dumb, but they figured out the system here and come in when they hear the call.

Since my name has been mentioned a time or two in this thread....

First off, I don't shoot cast bullets.... don't have the time to play with them, but certainly have nothing against those that do. But if ya want a bunch of load data Shaman, rustle up some cast bullet manuals. If you buy used, they are only aboiut 20 bucks for a new one.. and much less if used.. Or if some of your campfire buddies have an extra one or two, that you can part with that would be perfect.

You can use cast bullet load data with jacketed bullets. because you will way below SAAMI specs anyway. Picking a 223 is a good choice. There are tons of smaller cartridges in 22 caliber, and you can use that data often in a 223 case... just use your head, and it should be no problem. If you are in doubt, I have an email or PM ability on here, so feel free to ask.

Like you can use 222 and 221 cast bullet data in a 223., right along with the 22 Hornet also. One doesn't need a lot of velocity for 100 yds, or even 150. There is a lot of pistol powders on the shelves, at least at places like Sportsmans Warehouse. If you find something, check to see where it is on a burn rate chart. If your manual has load data on another powder close to the same burn rate, start low and work up a little at time before you find something that you like.

A nice benefit of using these type of loads, besides the economy of resources is that you can usually see your hits within the scope because recoil can be reduced so much. In fact jacketed bullets slowed down can penetrate further and more consistently than at faster velocity. Just did a post somewhere on the campfire last night, about 223 on steel plates at 100 yds. 2600 fps with Blue Dot, would penetrate the plates at 100 yds.. where the same bullets fired at military Spec velocity for a 55 grain bullet, hit the plate and just splattered at 100 yds.

This time last year I was going over to the range from end of Jan or so, until early June, and ringing steel at 300 and 400 yrd, with some bolt 223s.. powder charge of 8 to 9.5 grains of Unique. 223s can be down loaded to 22 LR specs. It will cost more than than what 22s can do, but then again, I haven't bought 22 LR in quite a while.. say years. still sitting on a ton of those also. But then with the price of components, maybe not. I wouldn't know because I bought when prices dropped under Trump. I figured we'd have democRATs back in the White House, sooner or later. Didn't figure it would be sooner, but never underestimate a DemocRAT's ability to cheat on elections and then blame everyone else for doing so. JUST REMEMBER, WHEN A LIAR IS POINTING THE ACCUSATIONAL FIGURE AT EVERYONE ELSE, they have 3 of their other fingers pointing right back at themselves.

I've been doing this economy stuff for a decade or two. Between shooting 5000 plus ground squirrels every summer, and being a rifle instructor on the Rifle Shooting Merit Badge in Boy Scouts, come hunting season that fall, granddad or dad gives them old Betsy as a gift... so they have an excuse to go out and buy a new rifle for themselves... thinking the wife or grandma won't see thru that one. I did it for economy.. but also found it gives ya a lot of shooting practice, for less money, but also less wear and tear on your rifles. I've got bolt 223s that have 30 and 40,000 rounds of Blue Dot loads down the barrel and they are still minute of popcan off the bench out to 250 consistently, and 300 yds with a little luck and Kentucky Windage.

When I started, a box of 50 rounds for my 22 Mag was $7.00. I could load a 223, for alot less, with better accuracy, more choice of bullets by a long shot, and they were faster and reach out further. Plus they were more than just bang/flop on ground squirrels/ sage rats... you could explode the hell out of them. RED MIST is an addiction, believe me!

I often don't shoot a sage rat, I bounce the round right in front of them in the dirt. The Shrapnel from that, bounces up and hits them. Depending on their position at the time, it can blow them in parts 8 feet up in the air, or split them in half, send one half 20 yds to the right and the other 20 yrds to the left. You want to fire up a bunch of 12 year old scouts, let them watch you do that....

I'm not going to be like Schtick and claim " I shoot it all"...but I do have a lot of experience on the subject and have pulled the trigger on well over a 100,000 or 2 worth of these types of rounds... It will add flexibility to ANY firearm or caliber.

You do this enough, you'll learn to extrapolate 223, or 222 reduced loads, from pistol caliber data also.. but that is not necessarily for beginners.

If ya get an idea of what you are looking to do, send me a PM and we can come up with a solution with the resources you can find available, to accomplish your mission.

Thank you, Seafire, for making an appearance. If you don't mind, I'll ask my questions out here in public. Feel free to PM me answers as you see fit.

Is there any joy to be gained from playing with primers? Is there better accuracy with rifle or pistol primers?

Years ago, I bought myself a pound of Bluedot to do something like this. The chemo wiped my memory of it, and I had to go back and look up what I'd been asking about on here that would have gotten me to buy BlueDot. Your posts seemed to be the origin point. This year, the stars have aligned to take this project on.

Can you list the powders, besides BlueDot that you like for this sort of work? I see Unique, so I'd assume Universal might be usable. That's my go-to pistol powder.

Red Mist? Oh, you're talking to a believer. Back in my bachelor days, I used to hunt groundhogs with 223 Accelerator. Sadly, all the good chuck hunting I had is now gone. The farms became subdivisions. My current farm might see a chuck every few years, but coyotes and feral dogs keep them in tight check. My last shot at a chuck was 2016. The booger walked in front of the 100-yard target frame while I was sighting in a 25-06. We are rather vermin-poor around here. So much so, that I tried asking if there were methods of encouraging the bastids. Folks told me I didn't want to go there. I'd love for someone to send me a crate of prairie dogs or ground squirrels, or something else I could put out in the pasture and plink at.

In your experience, what velocity range gives the better accuracy? I'm not trying to mimic a 22 Mag or a 22 Hornet, etc. I just want a good target load for 55 grain FMJ. This project is bound to spawn follow-ons, but accuracy is the goal for now.

Bullet seating depth: any difference in approach from standard high-velocity loads?


This is more for the rest of y'all: The only reason why I started this project with jacketed bullets in mind was that I wanted to weed out as many impediments to accuracy as possible. Cast lead, has a whole lot more dials and switches to deal with: alloy, lube, powder coat, etc. I do this all the time, with my pistol calibers. Back during the Obama years, I decided to get all my 35-cal firearms tested out with lead. I have a lead deer load for my 35 Whelen and lead deer and plinking loads for my 1894 lever in 357 Mag.

As to buying a used single-shot, have y'all seen the bloody prices? Whoda thunk. Years ago, I wrote a piece about 10 reasons cheap break-opens were like having an ugly girlfriend. Now, they're priced for museums.

Good thread👍

Glad that load worked so well!

Did a bunch of experimenting with reduced handloads during the Great Obama Rimfire Shortage. Another one that worked very was in the .17 Hornady Hornet, designed to duplicate .17 Mach 2 ballistics. With 7.0 grains of A5744 it grouped into around half an inch at 100 yards from my CZ 527, at right around 2100 fps.

I’ve no doubt whatsoever that the OP’s quest can be satisfied with J-bullets and wish him the best. That said, I haven’t killed any critters with such modern components in this century. Was foolish enough to purchase a remarkable antique ML target rifle many moons ago and started casting and hammer swaging pure lead. Made by David Hall Hilliard in Cornish NH circa 1870, a .50 cal Union sniper rifle clone, and I managed to snare 2d place at a match in Cody, WY not long after. Thus was I snared.

To be sure there are things to avoid with cast, such as fast twists and high velocity. Since I fell into the cast bullet looney bin I’ve done a number of curious things, including a wildcat .30 and reloading a .22 LR clone. One hole groups are common, and pigs hate me. Oh well…

Never had the courage to fiddle with a .17 thought. I’m terrified by the thought of having to buy a .17 cleaning rod. 😱

Choose your path and pay attention to the details. Details are important. Billy Dixon understood this fine point.

Yeah, that's what ruined me--I bought a .17 cleaning rod after buying my first .17-caliber rifle--which was a CZ .17 HMR a year after the cartridge was introduced. (I generally waited at least a year before buying and testing a rifle in some super-special new cartridge back then, to see if it would last, at least few years. Some died pretty quickly.) The .17 rod gave me "permission" to buy a bunch of other .17 rifles, from the .17 Mach II to .17 Remington. The only two left are that .17 HMR and a CZ 527 in .17 Hornady Hornet.

Interestingly, the rod proved to be completely useless for the .17 HMR. I cleaned the bore after the first 500 rounds through the rifle--which didn't take long to shoot, since I live in ground squirrel/prairie dog country. With about any ammo it had grouped 5 shots in a half-inch or less at 100 yards, but after the cleaning they opened up to around 1-1/2" for maybe 10-15 rounds before the bore settled down again. Cleaned it again after another 500 rounds, and the same thing happened--which is why I haven't cleaned the bore since 2010--and the rifle just keeps shooting half-inch groups....

Seems like I remember that you wrote an article for Handloader about it.

Yep, and some of the loads appeared in Chapter 7 of The Big Book of Gun Gack II, "Reduced Loads."

Is the 12.5 4198 load for H o IMR or does it matter? Thanks. Bob

They were using IMR 4198. I would imagine you could try the Hodgdon version as well.

Either one, but in my experience, the most accurate with the smaller groups, goes to the IMR version..
that is why I stock and shoot a lot of that over the Hodgdon version...

9 grains of Unique, will give you the same velocity... the 4198s are not position sensitive at that charge level (12.5 grains)...
but you might have soot blow back on your case.. which a little steel wool takes care of that each reload. I carry some in my kit out in the field and just clean off a case after each shot.

9 grain of Unique gives some pretty darn accurate loads with jacketed bullets in each of my 223s.

its just more economical, and being a bulky powder, seems to just keep the cases from needing to be cleaned off from the soot blow back

Shaman,

I've been testing a lot of different shot gun and pistol powders with the 223, for these types of loads.

Expanding out my knowledge, using what ever powders I can find on the shelves. Cast bullet manuals are your friend, especially older ones, IMHO. They work just fine with jacketed bullets, as you are way under SAAMI pressure specs anyway.

I'm finding that a lot of these powders, really aren't that finicky about keeping the bore that clean. I can shoot 500 rounds plus a day in the varmint fields here after sage rats. If accuracy declines, I just run a bore snake thru the barrel and life is back to normal.

Most of these types of powders tho, even on days where I can run thru 500 rounds in an afternoon, I single shoot the bolt action rifle. Averaging 2 or 3 shots every couple of minutes, I've taken a sporter barrel bolt 223 over to Klamath to shoot, and never had to let the barrel cool down using these shot gun and pistol powders. Many times I don't even have to run a bore snake down the barrel, AS they seem to burn pretty darn clean, that I don't lose accuracy. Minute of sage rat so to speak. I've got 223 barrels with 25,000 to 30,000 plus rounds down them... to include an ADL Remington.

Even in hunting rifles for say deer, I've gotten PMs on the campfire over the years, where someone is telling me old Betsy is getting a little inaccurate these days after a couple decades of service. The owner is in their late 70s, and don't really want to spend the money on a rebarrel. So they will ask about the accuracy, using shot gun and pistol powders.

These type of loads, are not that finicky, and still will attain 30/30 MVs, and it has stretched out the mileage on old Betsy's barrel long enough for them to finish their hunting days, while still having the accuracy to pass the rifle on down to a son, or grandson.... As with anything , YMMV, but seeing it stretch out the accuracy life in some high mileage barrels.. quit a few actually, it made me a believer and is another reason why I shoot a lot of this stuff....

Why look a gift horse in the mouth, if it still works and accomplishes the job, as long as you don't need a screaming MV.
As I say, I don't need a thousand yard capable load, that will drop an elk at that distance... to shoot some 100 lb blacktail at 100 yds or so... and the lessen recoil makes shooting easier to place your shots where you want them to go. I've got folks around the local area, that asked me this stuff long ago.. and to this day still use a charge of 10 grains of Unique in a 30/30, 308, 300 Savage and 30/06 with a 110 grain SP to a 125 grain SP/ or HP to take a deer each season.... there are enough of them migrating thru their yards each hunting season....

How about a .350 legend based single shot? 9mm bullet and .223 brass blown out was the original idea...would think super cheap to hunting loads could be done easy enough with lead bullets and a puff of powder. Hope to retire someday soon and chase such problems. I suspect we may be close enough to each other if you want to grab the CVA single shot I have here and do the work for me...

Thanks for the kind offer.

The reason I picked 223 REM for this project, was I wasn't going to have to buy anything to get started. However, you do present an interesting idea: 9mm pistol bullets in a 350 Legend as a cheap plinker. It has definite merit.

BTW: I'm down at the farm today. I brought all the fixins for my first attempt. This includes my RAR Predator in 223 and 100 rounds of primed brass.

Another thought in this:

As it stands at the moment, there really is not a good repository of 223 REM reduced load info.
Granted, about once a year, Seafire's thread gets resurrected in some form or other. However, to my knowledge, nobody has made this a sticky in any of the sub-forums. If not, please point the way. This topic deserves to be stickied somewhere.

Furthermore, if memory serves, Rocky Raab used to have a section of his website devoted to this sort of thing. It's now gone.

If folks wanted to help on a project, I would be willing to use what I know about this sort of thing to make a permanent repository of loads for reduced 223 Rem. I have the genesis9.angzva.com site. I would be willing to carve off a bit of that for reduced loads, or I could build another site under another domain and do this up. I'd just need some help populating it with data.